Should we leave the EU..

[Conniff]

Is it extreme to want to save the £55 million we pay to the EU each and every day and instead invest that money in this country?

[unclebulgaria67]

The way things are going with Greece and failure of EU to agree to actions needed to make the EU more financially secure, I can see the EU facing a disaster. Any UK referendum may be at a time that is helpful to those that want to leave the EU.

 

As normal it is up to Germany as to whether the EU/Euro survives the current crisis. They will have to decide whether putting more money into EU finances/ECB, will be cheaper than any loss suffered if the Euro collapses and the EU falls apart.

[Conniff]

Why has Germany the major voice, who said Germany could rule Europe. Seems to me that Hitler achieved his goal but isn't around to enjoy it.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Conniff

[unclebulgaria67]

Why has Germany the major voice, who said Germany could rule Europe. Seems to me that Hitler achieved his goal but isn't around to enjoy it.

 

Financial/industrial powerhouse of mainland Europe. With France in a weak position and there not being any real strong leadership or combined financial clout elsewhere, they look to Merkel/Germany. The Germans are fed up with this and Merkel is in a very difficult position politically.

 

Cameron is not in a good position to obtain much change from the EU, because they have more urgent issues to deal with. The only way Cameron would succeed is to go directly to the people in other countries to explain why the changes he wants would be good for people all around Europe.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Conniff
changed wasn't to isn't in quote

[san_d]

Why has Germany the major voice, who said Germany could rule Europe. Seems to me that Hitler achieved his goal but isn't around to enjoy it.

Daily Express reader? Is the EU a Nazi conspiracy? Would you rather have Germany as an ally or as an enemy?

[obiter dictum]

People go on about 55 million a day paid into the EU. It is 33 Million due to our rebate and a fraction of our GDP for the benefits received as a member

 

The establishment will never allow a Referendum. The British public have been systematically brainwashed by the right wing media for decades. We are the only country now out of all the 28 member states with this little Englander mentality. Europe calls us "Insular Apes" and a boil of Europe to be lanced

[Conniff]

The establishment will never allow a Referendum.

Yes it will, they can't get out of it now.

 

Europe calls us "Insular Apes" and a boil of Europe to be lanced

If they dislike us so much why don't they vote us out. Because they like our £55million per day.

[obiter dictum]

The Referendum Bill has not even been passed in Parliament yet

 

Cameron has gone on record that he will give the UK a referendum AFTER he has secured reforms in the EU.

 

He has always been consistent with his choice of words

 

Europe will simply tell the little Englander to sod of, Who is he to dictate terms to the remaining 27 member states

 

And as stated, it is 33 , not 55 million

[Conniff]

And conversely - who are these other 27 to dictate to us ?

[san_d]

And conversely - who are these other 27 to dictate to us ?

In real life, if you are in a group of 28 and tell the other 27 to f*** off, you're quite likely to get a punch in the face from each and every.

[Old Cogger]

say bye bye to most companies in the UK as no doubt extra import to EU charges will again bear its head = job loses we are only a tiny Island! and the dictatorship what we call Government will run away with all they can get!

[silverfox1961]

I happened across a (unofficial) survey the other day, can I find it when I need it? Nope!

 

Anyhoo the gist was that the younger the voter the more a vote for staying in the EU there was. As the generations got older the opinion started to go towards a 50/50 split yet the countys most prolific voters, the elderly were in a vast majority to leave.

 

It's strange that in general Elections the elderly are protected so they will vote for the party that gives them the most yet when our country is making the decision to stay or go, they vote in the negative.

[SabreSheep]

say bye bye to most companies in the UK as no doubt extra import to EU charges will again bear its head = job loses we are only a tiny Island! and the dictatorship what we call Government will run away with all they can get!

 

Unlikely

 

We consume a LOT of good from europe. They would not risk a tit for tat responce.

 

Besides, there are plenty of other people to trade with. We may be a tiny Island, but we *Had* an empire 1/3 of the globe. Our Queen is still Head of State for a large portion of it

[obiter dictum]

And since our so called days of Slavery, sorry empire, countries have their own trade agreements with China. Especially the Trans Pacific Trade Agreement.

 

51% of our exports go through Europe

 

The financial industry and motor manufacturers have all stated they will probably relocate to another member state on exit. What will the no campaigners then say to a man who will be labeled a work shy scrounger when his job has gone??

[Old Cogger]

In the far east regularly and the trade is now local Aussy/New Zealand etc animal trade is within far east & middle east, those days are gone/

[determindator]

The next thing is big business saying they may close their production lines here then people will fear losing their jobs and livelihoods, then the big shift to a yes stay in. At the mo I can't see a no vote succeeding.

 

Yes Capquest, is it really a free thinking vote, or not.

[SabreSheep]

And since our so called days of Slavery, sorry empire, countries have their own trade agreements with China. Especially the Trans Pacific Trade Agreement.

 

51% of our exports go through Europe

 

The financial industry and motor manufacturers have all stated they will probably relocate to another member state on exit. What will the no campaigners then say to a man who will be labeled a work shy scrounger when his job has gone??

 

Thats just it, goes THROUGH Europe. EG going through does not equal end point

 

Those that have said they will leave do not know what incentives will be offered to keep them here Did we not have all this scare mongering when we said we were not going to join the EURO?

[aburobert]

Companies like Toyota, Nissan and the like (from outside the EU) only located here because of easy access to the European market.

 

All those jobs will go and all the 'feeder' jobs as well. Suppliers plus all the jobs that exist because of the primary jobs the main factory provides - corner shops, supermarkets, plumbers, gardeners, window cleaners et al.

 

All these will be relocated inside the EU because there will be no customs duties, currency conversion fees and the like to pay. Places like Swindon and Sunderland will become ghost towns. Whether you like or dislike the EU an awful lot of jobs depend on our membership and leaving seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Once outside the EU no one is going to give much credence to the UK or care too much if we are in terminal decline because of a few ' hurrah Henry's' who hark back to the time when the world map was a quarter Union Jack. There is no doubt we could survive outside the EU - but at what cost! Personally I'd rather have a comfortable existence inside the EU rather than a very uncertain one outside it.

[SabreSheep]

currency conversion fees?

 

Funny, I was not aware our currency was the EURO

 

Once again, the Government can offer incentives, which who knows, may be easier to do without the red tape.

 

Also customs duties? Where is the proof that that will happen? The EU SELL a lot in the UK too! Customs Duties are not going to help them either.....

 

 

FYI

 

Im not anti EU, Im looking for a good argument to remain. This means, Challenging Scare mongering

 

The same things were being said when we were opting to stay out the single currency. Alas that apocalypse has yet to arrive, just like British Trains

[aburobert]

I am a businessman (now semi retired) and I remember very well what it was like before EU membership exporting to the EU zone.

 

All my items had to have a green customs label (if sent by post) attached on the reverse stating the full retail value of the item. On arrival it was delayed and had customs duty applied and clearance charges applied. My customers expected to pay the price in my lists not all the extras so I ended up relying on the home market for my sales. Then there were the hassles with larger items and the charges employing someone to clear the way through all the red tape and myriads of regulations. Since membership - all gone. No charges no red tape and my items reach my customers quickly and at the price in my lists.

 

In the end I gave up and lived in the Middle East where I had no hassles trading as where I lived was part of the GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) I also lived in West Africa where ECOWAS was/is the trading block - again few hassles. We leave the EU we are on our own - having to negotiate our trading terms from zilch. Back comes all the red tape and expenses of trading with countries where we have no customs union. Also the effect on prices as we import items - the Government will as sure as night is day slap on customs duties again as they do for items imported from outside the EU. The days of EFTA are long gone and even if it was revived the countries its regulations/agreements applied to were almost without exception minor economies compared to the UK's.

 

I suppose as I am now an old fart it would not have much effect on me personally now if we stayed or left but it would have a huge impact on my children and grandchildren. Fortunately they do not appear to have the hangups many have as the 'Rule Britannia' and sod the rest generation one hears often arguing in the local hostelries.

[determindator]

Reading between the lines, I feel The Queen wants in.

[unclebulgaria67]

Reading between the lines, I feel The Queen wants in.

 

HM The Queen is very wise, that unity in Europe is extremely important, as we share the same part of the world. It cannot just be a trading area, with all the nations doing their own thing. There are many companies based in the UK and throughout the EU, who rely on there being consistent rules across the whole area. There are also many shared interests, such as fighting crime, security and environment.

 

The EU is still very important to the world economy and once there is financial stability, there will be many opportunities for people and businesses. We have seen the rise of the National Front in France and other such political movements in other countries. We don't want to go back to a divided Europe, where it is harder to live and do business.

 

Cameron is trying to deal with Tory party divisions, but it could all blow up in his face. He is very unlikely to gain any significant EU reforms, but will be recommending a Yes vote to stay in the EU. Bernard Jenkins and other Tory MP's are already putting pressure on Cameron to live up to the promises made in speeches. It won't happen and there will be a split in the Tory party that will be difficult to recover from.

[Conniff]

We can live in harmony without being dictated to thank you very much.

[unclebulgaria67]

We can live in harmony without being dictated to thank you very much.

 

UK Parliament loves to implement EU laws and often does so before other countries. Quite often the UK gold plates EU rules, adding even more at the same time. The UK implemented EPC's way before most other countries.

 

What EU rules have the UK implemented which are bad for British citizens interests ?

[obiter dictum]

The UK Parliament is also the supreme legislature to make,repeal or enact any law

 

So how are we dictated to as to laws from a foreign organisation

??