Claimant commitment confusion

[Nystagmite]

They can insist you use public transport. When I was on JSA years ago, I was told it doesn't matter how far 90 minutes would get me.

[Mr.P]

As far as I was aware it would have to be in the form of a job seekers direction written down with a full explanation detailing the consequences if I failed to participate.

 

A notified vacancy can be done verbally and it would be noted by the Employment Officer on the LMS. Translating the DWP speak: The work coach can tell you about a vacancy and make a note on the computer. It would then be up to you to apply or risk a possible benefit doubt.

 

If the notified vacancy requires a degree level (or equivalent) qualification that you do not possess, then I would consider the notification to be inappropriate. Print off a copy of the vacancy details and highlight the areas that you fail to meet the application requirement should you be challenged.

[trebormoinet]

Well I never....just been reading up on doctors charges for letters and by the look of things I cannot afford to have one.

 

I need to obtain a passport or driving licence so that I can join the local surgery, I did try to explain I do not have any of those but they were adamant there was no other course of action,so another cost I cannot afford.

 

So kind of stuck here, is it written in the rules that an exception can only be added with supporting evidence from a doctor ?

[Nystagmite]

I don't remember having to provide evidence when I said I'm disabled.

[Madamfluff]

Well I never....just been reading up on doctors charges for letters and by the look of things I cannot afford to have one.

 

I need to obtain a passport or driving licence so that I can join the local surgery, I did try to explain I do not have any of those but they were adamant there was no other course of action,so another cost I cannot afford.

 

So kind of stuck here, is it written in the rules that an exception can only be added with supporting evidence from a doctor ?

 

 

This is untrue

http://www.hmr.nhs.uk/attachments/article/82/gp-patient-registration-fraud.pdf

 

 

This link from the NHS counter fraud says its preferable to have photo ID not mandatory

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2015/11/pat-reg-sop-pmc-gp.pdf

 

This link from the guidelines that GP practise have to adhere to says clearly its not the GP practises role to establish identity (under legal advice requesting information from patients..

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healthcare/discrimination-in-health-and-care-services/health-and-care-services-common-situations/discrimination-when-registering-with-a-gp/

 

 

This link shows that your national origin (race) is a protected characteristic under the equalities act and that blanket rules which prevent you and other who share your PC from registering could be construed as indirect discrimination under the act (UK born with no legal requirement to hold a passport)

 

 

My advice to you is to go back to the surgery after ensuring you are in their catchment area and that they are taking on new patients armed with other ID and this information and asked to be registered if they refuse they HAVE to put it in writing why they have refused you.

 

 

You also have a legal right to a GP your local HA HAS to find you a GP that will take you ID or no ID

 

 

Good Luck

[Nystagmite]

The only ID I had to provide was proof of address.

[trebormoinet]

This is untrue

http://www.hmr.nhs.uk/attachments/article/82/gp-patient-registration-fraud.pdf

 

 

This link from the NHS counter fraud says its preferable to have photo ID not mandatory

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2015/11/pat-reg-sop-pmc-gp.pdf

 

This link from the guidelines that GP practise have to adhere to says clearly its not the GP practises role to establish identity (under legal advice requesting information from patients..

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healthcare/discrimination-in-health-and-care-services/health-and-care-services-common-situations/discrimination-when-registering-with-a-gp/

 

 

This link shows that your national origin (race) is a protected characteristic under the equalities act and that blanket rules which prevent you and other who share your PC from registering could be construed as indirect discrimination under the act (UK born with no legal requirement to hold a passport)

 

 

My advice to you is to go back to the surgery after ensuring you are in their catchment area and that they are taking on new patients armed with other ID and this information and asked to be registered if they refuse they HAVE to put it in writing why they have refused you.

 

 

You also have a legal right to a GP your local HA HAS to find you a GP that will take you ID or no ID

 

 

Good Luck

 

Thank you for your response, there are 2 surgeries within my catchment area and both insist on photo ID, I will go back armed with the information you have provided, I argued the points you raised, as I had done a bit of research before I visited, but they just shot me down with an absolute refusal to accept me, getting it in writing is something I did not consider.

 

I am not making this up, I went to the Interview and it had been cancelled due to an accident on the M1 and they could not make it in time, oh the irony.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for your response, there are 2 surgeries within my catchment area and both insist on photo ID, I will go back armed with the information you have provided, I argued the points you raised, as I had done a bit of research before I visited, but they just shot me down with an absolute refusal to accept me, getting it in writing is something I did not consider.

 

It might be better to ask this on the NHS forum, but is there still the local Family Practitioner Committee that looks after local surgeries? If they are, maybe you could ask them what the situation is on ID?

 

HB

[trebormoinet]

It might be better to ask this on the NHS forum, but is there still the local Family Practitioner Committee that looks after local surgeries? If they are, maybe you could ask them what the situation is on ID?

 

HB

Yes thank you, I have already posted regarding the problems I have had along with my problems trying to register on the NHS section of the forum, I mentioned it here in passing.

[Madamfluff]

Thank you for your response, there are 2 surgeries within my catchment area and both insist on photo ID, I will go back armed with the information you have provided, I argued the points you raised, as I had done a bit of research before I visited, but they just shot me down with an absolute refusal to accept me, getting it in writing is something I did not consider.

 

 

All the information I have linked to was the information I gathered when my sister was refused registration because she didn't have photo ID the Surgery registered her in the end

 

 

They HAVE to give your their reasons in writing see below from CAB before you go in check their website if they say you're in their catchment area and state that they are accepting new patients

 

Problems with registering

 

Unless the GP’s register is full, or you live too far away for home visits, it is unlikely that the GP will refuse to accept you.

However, if the GP does refuse to accept you, then they must have reasonable grounds for doing so. These must not have anything to do with race, gender, social class, age, religion, pregnancy or maternity,sexual orientation, appearance, disability or medical condition. The GP must give you the reasons for their decision in writing. If a GP refuses to register you because of who you are, it could also be unlawful discrimination.

If you have been unable to register with a GP, you should contact the local Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG) or NHS England. You should send your medical card, with a letter giving the name of any GPs who have refused to register you, and of any GPs with whom you would prefer not to be registered.

The CCG will try to find a GP who is prepared to accept you. This will not necessarily be a GP of your choice. Once you have been allocated a GP, the GP must accept you and treat you, and can only remove you from their list under certain circumstances (see under heading GP removes patient from register). The CCG will then have to find you another doctor. The CCG cannot help you find another GP if you are already registered with a GP.

For more information on discrimination, see Discrimination when registering with a GP

 

 

 

 

Be CALM don't give them the opportunity to say that they refused to accept you because you were aggressive, speak to the practise manager not the receptionist.

[trebormoinet]

Found where to make my complaint. https://jsacomplaints.itsshared.net/start

 

Seems much simpler than writing in, anyone had any experience of this service ?

[trebormoinet]

Be CALM don't give them the opportunity to say that they refused to accept you because you were aggressive, speak to the practise manager not the receptionist.

I know your right, it is hard to remain calm though when everything I do requires an intimate knowledge of the law else be trampled upon by ignorant know it alls, I shall update this thread on my progress I feel you have given me enough now to ensure I will not be fobbed off this time, and yes I shall remain calm.

[Madamfluff]

I know your right, it is hard to remain calm though when everything I do requires an intimate knowledge of the law else be trampled upon by ignorant know it alls, I shall update this thread on my progress I feel you have given me enough now to ensure I will not be fobbed off this time, and yes I shall remain calm.

 

 

I hope so it worked for my sister.

[trebormoinet]

I hope so it worked for my sister.

It also worked for me, thank you, I ran into the same old brick wall but once I mentioned that they put it in writing the reasons why I am being refused then everything changed and they accepted my non photo identification.

 

Moving on, I wonder if anyone else has had experience of having an exception added to the claimant commitment, was you required to bring in a written letter from the doctor to confirm your exception ?

 

I understand the reasons why they might be reluctant without some sort of proof, but the exceptions I have asked to be included probably stop me from applying for less than 1% of the job market.

 

I have a fear of heights, I cannot go up any higher than a step ladder and even then I feel uncomfortable, I am OK inside buildings, I can manage to climb stairs and take lifts, but I cannot do scaffolding, window cleaner, pilot.

 

I have a fear of being a passenger in journeys that are not local and involve A roads and M roads, I am OK driving myself and OK on trains but cars buses vans are a no go for me, I start sweating profusely, feel sick and have a overwhelming desire to stop the vehicle and get out.

 

I am able to satisfy the 90 minute commute myself, I just cannot be driven around the country.

 

I have lived with these symptoms for so long they are part of my normal psyche, I do not feel I have mental health issues nor do I feel I need them to be addressed, these fears are not irrational IMO.

 

But now I feel I am being forced to go through the treadmill and accept that yes they are a form of mental illness according to what I have read, and may be part of a bigger issue.

 

This is not something I want, and to be honest, I feel it is a waste of the mine and the NHS time and money to prove what are not uncommon issues.

 

Is it even possible for the doctor to diagnose these problems credibly without me attending a long course of sessions with a psychotherapist or whatever orwill he do the sensible thing and accept me on my word ? if he does accept me on my word, I have read doctors letters can cost £30 up to £120, who will fund this, JCP?

 

I am composing a complaint which I will send via the on-line complaints site as I do think I have been treated unfairly, any thoughts opinions, much appreciated, negative or not.

[Madamfluff]

It also worked for me, thank you, I ran into the same old brick wall but once I mentioned that they put it in writing the reasons why I am being refused then everything changed and they accepted my non photo identification.

 

 

 

I am so pleased and glad I helped

 

First of all now you have been accepted into the new practise you will be offered a new patient health check (in fact most surgeries insist on these even though you do have the right to refuse any medical examination and they cant refuse to treat you if you don't have one - but that's another story and another battle I personally went through - and won)

 

 

This will not be performed by your GP but by the health care assistant but it would certainly be worth your while mentioning your problems so a record can be made.

 

 

As for your GP doing the 'sensible' thing and just believing you, your GP has a duty of care towards you, they are not just there for signing fit notes and any GP worth his salt would want to look at the underlying causes of your problems, in fact I wouldn't personally want to trust a GP who just took a patients word without investigation

[tommy456]

This 90 mins travel to from a place of work isn't set in stone, that time of 90mins is what the computer at JC+ defaults to, you can have this reduced if you can show why 90mins is unreasonable this should be thrashed out before agreeing a CC

[trebormoinet]

As for your GP doing the 'sensible' thing and just believing you, your GP has a duty of care towards you, they are not just there for signing fit notes and any GP worth his salt would want to look at the underlying causes of your problems, in fact I wouldn't personally want to trust a GP who just took a patients word without investigation

 

I understand what you are saying,obviously I understand the doctor has a professional responsibility and will not just accept everything I say, last thing I want to do is waste the doctors time, I am not asking for a fit note, what I mean by "the sensible thing" is rather than put me through the mental health treadmill for what amounts to a trivial inconvenience to my life, in order to establish something that is impossible to diagnose with 100% accuracy, in order to satisfy someone who has no regard for my concerns, that the greatest weight of evidence is in actual fact my statements to them, in all my years in employment and job seeking these phobias have not impacted my ability to work or apply for 99.9% of the jobs out there.

 

This 90 mins travel to from a place of work isn't set in stone, that time of 90mins is what the computer at JC+ defaults to, you can have this reduced if you can show why 90mins is unreasonable this should be thrashed out before agreeing a CC

Well yes they are rather vague to say the least, if I lived next to an airport then my range to look for work would be vastly greater than if I lived in a rural location where the closet public transport is a 90 min walk away.

[antone]

They are certainly vague, yes, but there's no way they'd demand that you fly to work

[tommy456]

Well yes they are rather vague to say the least, if I lived next to an airport then my range to look for work would be vastly greater than if I lived in a rural location where the closet public transport is a 90 min walk away.

and if you had issues mobilising and was waiting for an MR decision for ESA then they would have to accept that it wouldn't be reasonable to expect you to do more than look for work online, and postal signing

[trebormoinet]

They are certainly vague, yes, but there's no way they'd demand that you fly to work

lol, you not met my work coach.

 

and if you had issues mobilising and was waiting for an MR decision for ESA then they would have to accept that it wouldn't be reasonable to expect you to do more than look for work online, and postal signing

I agree, it can be negotiated and there are exceptions, however I have no problem which I could reasonably argue that would restrict me to less than 90 minutes travel, unless of course it involved tearing down the motorway in a mini bus for 90 minutes.

 

And that is my problem, how do I prove that this is an actual issue for me, when as far as I am aware, it is impossible to diagnose with certainty.

[neword]

 

LOL. you do know how long on average it takes to get through a airport/ board a plane/wait for plane to take off..... I reckon 90 mins would normally see you sitting in the seat waiting to take off.

 

90 minutes on foot would probably get you further from the airport than the plane.

[trebormoinet]

Fair point, I guess train station would have been a better example but then considering delays / strikes are increasingly common.............but yep, having never flown, I never thought of that lol

[antone]

lol, you not met my work coach.

 

Yeah, some of them are indeed pretty "bulldog"-like

 

Actually, I'd really love to see some work coach push this to the point that it ends up at a Tribunal. It would be hilarious. Well, I wouldn't really like to see that happen because it would mean some poor jobseeker got a ridiculous sanction, but the idea still makes me chuckle.

[Mr.P]

A few years back, I did point out that I could fly out to Amsterdam within the 90 minute rule from my local airport (which is also on my doorstep). The response from the Job Centre adviser was along the lines of "we wouldn't expect you to take a job overseas". I suspect that she also realised that the cost of the daily commute would be excessive and unreasonable.

[suziebear67]

Just go for the wiring loom job and tell them about your colour blindness and they wont employ you any way