A change to ESA rules of assesments in 2015?

[mikeymack2002]

The Employment and Support Allowance assessments' could be changing as of 2015 please read the attachment or follow this link HERE

This is a 93 page report sorry about the long read folks

[estellyn]

It's mainly about the 6 month rule, which I'm surprised has taken them so long to remove.

[tommy456]

When is it to be implemented if it goes through into law So how are those that are too sick to work but incorrectly assessed by Maximus ect going to survive this is so wrong its untrue ,If they had a proper WCA that was fit for purpose and carried out by people who were not trained to ignore/disregard real health issues that affect a persons ability to work then this reclaiming cycle and appeals wouldn't be necessary

[sadone]

I think this bloody government is really taking the p*ss now. They are pushing people too far.

 

The idea that you can never ever reclaim with the same condition if you fail a WCA is ridiculous as well as cruel.

[tommy456]

Oh its very wrong and i would argue illegal what they are going to do, I hope this really backfires on them in a spectacular way Civil war and anarchy are getting closer by the day IMO thanks to the likes of this government ,

[sadone]

We can only hope because with every new rushed through 'regulation' my blood boils just that little bit more.

 

I want these greedy idiots out!!

[RaeUK]

... The idea that you can never ever reclaim with the same condition if you fail a WCA is ridiculous as well as cruel.

I haven't waded through the document but, crikey, is this correct? It took me three attempts for the same condition before I was accepted straight into the support group. I only have the one condition which is cunningly designed to get steadily worse until I pop my clogs. I'll be right in the poo if I have one of their miracle cures!

[estellyn]

You can reclaim with the same condition, but only if you show it has worsened. So you'd put a claim in, a decision maker would look at it and the evidence, either refuse the claim or refer for wca. I can't see from this (I just skimmed) when the person would be eligible for payment; when the decision maker decides the condition is worsened and refers for wca or when a person passes the wca.

[sadone]

Yes thats the case. If you fail your WCA you cannot reclaim with the same condition ever, unless you can show proof it's got worse.

 

Do they have teams of people thinking up this crap or what? Imo this is all out war on the sick and disabled.

[RaeUK]

Ah, thanks estellyn and sadone, a glimmer of hope for the likes of I. Not good for anyone else, mind.

[2ltr16valve]

This rotten government is hell bent of putting people with disabilities in their coffins !!! These changes not long before the election Is just s kick in the teeth from them as they must know there on the way out.....

My condition is varied and changes so I'm pretty stuffed.

[mikeymack2002]

What you need to realise this is just the beginning of more changes to come

[sadone]

I think we already guessed that love. This is the b*stard party after all.

[twoconcernedsisters]

I'm surprised that this 'loophole' hadn't been closed down years ago. It wasn't called the 'magic roundabout' for no reason. It was a cynical way of remaining on ESA with the same condition going from assessment to Tribunal and back to assessment time and time and time again. Effectively you remained on ESA (Income based obviously) for years until you got lucky.

 

 

Don't start blaming the government for this change, blame those that have played and abused this system since 2008.

To suggest that there is no alternative is wrong.

 

 

JSA can be claimed in a modified form in the interim until either there is a deterioration of an existing condition or a new one pops up.

[sadone]

No I blame this heartless corrupt government.

 

And as for a loohole, dear god, If you've ever had to claim ESA you'll know how ridiculous that sounds.

[tommy456]

I'm surprised that this 'loophole' hadn't been closed down years ago. It wasn't called the 'magic roundabout' for no reason. It was a cynical way of remaining on ESA with the same condition going from assessment to Tribunal and back to assessment time and time and time again. Effectively you remained on ESA (Income based obviously) for years until you got lucky.

 

 

Don't start blaming the government for this change, blame those that have played and abused this system since 2008.

To suggest that there is no alternative is wrong.

 

 

JSA can be claimed in a modified form in the interim until either there is a deterioration of an existing condition or a new one pops up.

But if you where to examine the facts as to why this was and will remain to happen you will probably find that most of them where people who should of never been found fit for work in the first place The unfit for purpose WCA should be scrapped and some of those who work for ATOS carrying out these WCA's should be stripped of their medical qualifications and never allowed to practise again , But oh no it's easier to persecute the sick

 

JSA You really believe that that will work out for most who should be on esa ? Did you go to government brainwashing sessions?

It may of worked back in the 90's but it would not today, when JCP staff are always looking for ways to sanction you, they have targets to meet , They would not be accommodating the Job seekers commitment BS prevents that

[RaeUK]

I'm surprised that this 'loophole' hadn't been closed down years ago. It wasn't called the 'magic roundabout' for no reason. It was a cynical way of remaining on ESA with the same condition going from assessment to Tribunal and back to assessment time and time and time again. Effectively you remained on ESA (Income based obviously) for years until you got lucky. ...

 

Hahaha. Excellent WUMming there. Your condition had to be worse to re-claim, so nothing has changed.

[tommy456]

It will be changed , as they are going to stop paying pre assessment rate whist you await a tribunal determination where they are currently paying up to that hearing , Of course by doing this they are basically forcing people to make up stuff in order to avoid going onto JSA and end up getting sanctioned

[Nystagmite]

It will be changed , as they are going to stop paying pre assessment rate whist you await a tribunal determination where they are currently paying up to that hearing , Of course by doing this they are basically forcing people to make up stuff in order to avoid going onto JSA and end up getting sanctioned

 

I won't be surprised if people either make up stuff to carry on claiming ESA or end up saying (because for many, this will be the case) they now have depression because the whole situation is actually making them depressed.

[speedfreek]

It all about "conditionality"

 

With Universal Credit ESA is gone! It is replaced by 2 levels of conditionality;

 

Support Group - zero conditionality (initially as I'll expect creep here soon)

Work Related - less than normal (this is already moving towards full conditionality)

 

Now with UC you will move in and out of conditionality depending on where you are on your glorious claimant journey.

 

Fail a single WCA and the only protection will be your ability to negotiate a reduced standard claimant commitment with a fit note from a GP or consultant. We all know how well this is working currently with MR!

 

There is this new 13 weeks regulation which gives you zero conditionality from a fit note. What use this will be I'm not sure

 

Although the natural progression would be to make the 13 weeks compulsory, followed by 13 weeks for WCA assessment thus bringing it to 26 weeks in line with PIP. You then amalgamate what was PIP and ESA into a new single disability payment covered by a single test - thus reducing assessment costs whilst cutting the hell out of any new payments made. .

[Bazooka Boo]

3 years I've been fighting them. It really is two steps forward one step back with these crooks.

 

I've a very good mind to sue the so called 'HCP' who fabricated my WCA, and began my three year fight.

[twoconcernedsisters]

Hahaha. Excellent WUMming there. Your condition had to be worse to re-claim, so nothing has changed.

only if it was less than 6 months from when the original decision was made. Given that appeals/reconsiderations are taking more than 6 months from the decision date, you could reclaim for the same condition after being found 'fit for work' on the same day as the Tribunal decision was given. Consequently you were able to receive ESA continually even though every decision went against you. I seem to remember that you did that reclaimed straight after the Tribunal decisions that also failed you?

 

 

There needed a break in that ridiculous situation. It was wide open to abuse by those who decided that claiming JSA was too aggravating.

All you needed were sick notes which allowed people to keep on the 'magic roundabout/revolving door' year after year even though they had never passed the ESA test!

[honeybee13]

only if it was less than 6 months from when the original decision was made. Given that appeals/reconsiderations are taking more than 6 months from the decision date, you could reclaim for the same condition after being found 'fit for work' on the same day as the Tribunal decision was given. Consequently you were able to receive ESA continually even though every decision went against you. I seem to remember that you did that reclaimed straight after the Tribunal decisions that also failed you?

 

 

There needed a break in that ridiculous situation. It was wide open to abuse by those who decided that claiming JSA was too aggravating.

All you needed were sick notes which allowed people to keep on the 'magic roundabout/revolving door' year after year even though they had never passed the ESA test!

 

Might I ask how you know that please, TCS?

 

HB

[2ltr16valve]

I wouldn't say merry go round.

 

missery go round more like!!

[Nystagmite]

only if it was less than 6 months from when the original decision was made. Given that appeals/reconsiderations are taking more than 6 months from the decision date, you could reclaim for the same condition after being found 'fit for work' on the same day as the Tribunal decision was given. Consequently you were able to receive ESA continually even though every decision went against you. I seem to remember that you did that reclaimed straight after the Tribunal decisions that also failed you?

 

 

There needed a break in that ridiculous situation. It was wide open to abuse by those who decided that claiming JSA was too aggravating.

All you needed were sick notes which allowed people to keep on the 'magic roundabout/revolving door' year after year even though they had never passed the ESA test!

 

Many found fit for work won't get JSA. They are too ill to claim it. So what do they live on? Thin air?