court claim asking for amount plus 'costs'? **Claim Discontinued**

[AndyOrch]

Plenty of time then yet...lets have a further review say mid week next...you may in the meantime send an email stating that the claimant has failed to comply with directions dated xxxxx.

Ideally this should be by way of an application and fee....but the game is to get the court to do it of their own accord.

[Buel10]

God you're good!!

 

Is it 'struck out' that is the term, and aim here?

[AndyOrch]

Yes indeed:wink:

[Buel10]

Hi Andy,

Just a quick one - The court today told my friend that they have issued a letter to him and the claimant explaining that the claimant has to supply the documents by March 5th or the claim will get struck out. I am frankly surprised by these 'extended' deadlines they have been given.

[AndyOrch]

Benefit of doubt Buel...but dont worry it will be struck out.

[Buel10]

SUCCESS!!!!!!!

 

AC Roof Trusses contacted the court to say that they wanted to discontinue the claim. They still haven't let my friend know this though and we only know as we rang the court. Still, what bloomin' wonderful news!!

 

You know why 'we' won? Because of YOU, Andy!!! Being 'in the right' kind of helped, Lol, but your help has been invaluable and we will be making a contribution to this site this week.

 

Seriously Andy, it's people like you that give me hope in the kindness of people!!!

[Esio Trot]

As soon as you receive confirmation from the court, I suggest you submit a schedule of your costs and disbursements (copied to the other side) and ask for a wasted costs order!

[AndyOrch]

SUCCESS!!!!!!!

 

AC Roof Trusses contacted the court to say that they wanted to discontinue the claim. They still haven't let my friend know this though and we only know as we rang the court. Still, what bloomin' wonderful news!!

 

You know why 'we' won? Because of YOU, Andy!!! Being 'in the right' kind of helped, Lol, but your help has been invaluable and we will be making a contribution to this site this week.

 

Seriously Andy, it's people like you that give me hope in the kindness of people!!!

 

 

Excellent...delighted that this has been resolved for your friend Buel

 

Thread title amended to reflect the outcome.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Buel10]

As soon as you receive confirmation from the court, I suggest you submit a schedule of your costs and disbursements (copied to the other side) and ask for a wasted costs order!

 

Oh Gosh I would like to do that, it has taken up sooo much of my/my friend's time.

 

Andy, is this possible please?

[AndyOrch]

No its small claims track and CPR 38 does not apply.

[Buel10]

DAMN!!

[Buel10]

Hi - an unfortunate update:

 

As stated,

A C Roof Trusses never did follow up with their court claim:

something that my friend and I are both eternally grateful to Andy for (my friend made a decent contribution to the site).

 

However, in order for my friend to get his building 'passed off' by the local planning department,

he needs the 'calculations' for the roof trusses that were provided by A C Roof Trusses.

He wrote to them to ask them for them and

 

on 24 June the reply came back of:

 

"Whilst the cost of the calculations for the timber frame is included in the quotation, the cost for the roof truss calculations are not.

These incur an additional fee of £250+VAT and as such please find enclosed our invoice for the supply of these.

Once payment has been received in full, the calculations will be issued'.

 

However, on the FAQ page of their website, it states that 'the truss calculations and layout drawings' are provided free of charge'.

 

 

Please see here:

http://www.acrooftrusses.co.uk/faq

 

Since then he has sent them the following letter:

 

'Thank you for your letter dated 24th June 2015.

You stated ‘Whilst the cost of the calculations for the timber frame is included in the quotation,

the cost for the roof truss calculations are not’.

 

 

Yet one of the reasons we chose you in the first place was that on your website’s FAQs,

it states:

 

Q. Do you provide drawings or calculations?

 

A. Once an order has been delivered to site we can provide truss/floor beam calculations and layout drawings free of charge.

 

Please can I ask why this is not the case with my order?

If this is not the case with my order,

please can I ask you to provide supporting documentation?'

 

He has not received a reply to this letter and being as it was signed for, we know they received it.

 

We did contacted the Trussed Rafter Association

after many emails exchanged,

 

 

ultimately they replied with this:

'With regard to your complaint against AC Roof Trusses and your request that the TRA solve your problem.

 

Given what you say in your e-mail of 14 August,

it would appear to be necessary to explain the exact nature of the Trussed Rafter Association and what it can do.

It is a trade association and not an ombudsman, a regulator or a tribunal.

 

 

As such it is not set up to resolve claims, and has no teeth to force a member to comply with a request such as yours.

The most that might be achieved would be for your complaint to result in a disciplinary proceeding.

 

 

To have any credibility, the process would require all of the issues pertaining to the case to be understood by the TRA board

, and in the light of that evidence to make a decision on which of the outcomes proscribed in our articles of association is pertinent.

 

 

Please be clear that none of them can result in the TRA forcing a member to send out a set of calculations.

 

In terms of alternative sources for the calculations, there are no easy or free ways for these to be obtained.

AC Roof Trusses have undertaken the software design work required to achieve these calculations for your specific roof.

The only alternatives appear to be to engage an independent structural engineer, or to ask a different supplier to repeat this design work.

In either case there will be significant charges for the work required.'

 

 

Please can I ask for your help with this?

 

 

Is there a way that I can take court action on this to force/persuade them to provide the calculations my friend needs?

[Buel10]

Hi there.

 

Please can anyone offer any help with where to go now?

 

Thank you in advance...

[AndyOrch]

Have you explained to Planning the history behind this why they wont provide the calcs Buel ? They may intervene.

 

Looks like your friend is stuck between a rock and a hard place here as the supplier is being vindictive..

 

You either use the original drawings and engage a Structural Engineer or equivalent.

 

Pay the fee and then litigate for breach of contract.Once planning has passed.

 

Use on line free calcs software to replicate...not sure if planning would accept though.

 

Andy

[Buel10]

Use on line free calcs software to replicate...not sure if planning would accept though.

 

Andy

Hi Andy.

 

Thank you, please could I ask you to explain this?

[AndyOrch]

One of many if you search Truss Calcs....

 

http://www.selecttrusses.com/truss-calculator/

[silverfox1961]

Hi, I don't know if this will help or not.

 

You could send them a Subject Access Request and with that, they should send you everything they have connected to you. They should have a Data Protection Schedule in place. This costs a tenner.

[Buel10]

Hi, I don't know if this will help or not.

 

You could send them a Subject Access Request and with that, they should send you everything they have connected to you. They should have a Data Protection Schedule in place. This costs a tenner.

 

Hi there.

 

That is very interesting, thank you. Any other thoughts on whether this will work?

 

In the meantime....

 

This is what my friend sent them last week:

 

Dear Mrs XXXX,

I wrote to you on 7th August 2015 asking you why you are claiming that

‘the cost of the calculations for the timber frame is included in the quotation,

the cost for the roof truss calculations are not’,

 

 

when it states clearly on your own website

 

 

‘Once an order has been delivered to site we can provide truss/floor beam calculations and layout drawings free of charge.’

 

I also asked you to provide supporting documentation to explain why you are claiming

that you need to charge me for these, apparently, free calculations.

 

Please can you reply to me by either explaining this or providing the roof truss calculations?

 

I am obliged to inform you that I have found two other previous customers of A C Roof Trusses

who received their calculations for no additional fee and that should you not supply me with the calculations

that your own website says you will (for no extra cost) within 7 days,

then I will resume my correspondence with Jill Insley from The Sunday Times 'Question Of Money' supplement

 

 

I shall pass on all my communications, both sent and received, regarding this unfortunate situation.

I will also be forced to contact Trading Standards.

I sincerely hope we can resolve this and both go our separate ways and move on.

Yours sincerely,

 

Today, he received this:

 

And just for the record, the contract actually stated 'payment on delivery'....but that's semantics, I guess.

 

So, what to do now then......please can I ask for any advice on this rather unfortunate letter?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Buel responding to your PM

 

Think they are smart dont they ? I will take a closer look in the morning and give you my opinion on how to proceed.

 

Regards

Andy

[Buel10]

Think they are smart dont they ?

 

Yes, they certainly are showing their true colours here. Thank you Andy. Big time....!

[Buel10]

Just to remind you of the true timeline of events, this might help refresh a few things. I have yet to add the details of the court case they withdrew from:

Time line:

 

2014

July 4: Ordered goods and paid 20% (£1218.56). I was promised work would commence immediately and take two days to complete.

 

Early August: Bob Pritchard had to chase AC Roof Trusses for a delivery date, this was given as August 22nd.

August 22: No goods delivered.

August 22: I, Gary Pritchard, went to see AC Roof Trusses and they told me that the goods would 'definitely be delivered by the end of next week', being August 29th.

August 29: No goods delivered.

 

September 2: Incomplete order (Timber Frame) delivered.

September 8: Claimant claims goods were delivered.

September 10: Completed goods/order actually arrived (Driver did not ask for payment nor provide balance invoice or any invoice at all).

September 13: Sent letter to claimant requesting invoice (Recorded delivery).

 

October 2: Sent second letter to claimant requesting invoice (Recorded delivery).

October 2: Claimant issued claim.

October 4: Received letter from claimant with two invoices, both with same date but one with amount outstanding and other with amount outstanding plus interest and court fees. Also received Court Claim.

October 9: Cheque sent for amount outstanding minus interest and court fees (Recorded Delivery).

October 10: Cheque cashed.

October 15: Cheque cleared.

[king12345]

Well, i've got to say that they worded their t&c very carefully.

Imo they're quite within their rights to refuse disclosure of the calculations.

They cost anything between £600 and £1200 from freelance engineers.

They still feel that you owe them money and whether this is correct or not, the calculations were not part of the contract unfortunately.

[Buel10]

Hi Andy,

 

Would you agree with king12345? Just a guess here but would getting the calculations done by a professional and then claiming the cost from AC be an option at all? Or am I way off....

 

Hi Andy,

 

Would you agree with king12345? Just a guess here but would getting the calculations done by a professional and then claiming the cost from AC be an option at all? Or am I way off....

 

Hi there Andy.

 

I hope you don't mind me bumping this thread.

 

Thank you - B

 

Hi Andy,

I've just triend to PM you but your PM box is apparently full.

Hope this helps,

Buel

 

Hi Andy,

 

Is all okay?

[AndyOrch]

Well, i've got to say that they worded their t&c very carefully.

Imo they're quite within their rights to refuse disclosure of the calculations.

They cost anything between £600 and £1200 from freelance engineers.

They still feel that you owe them money and whether this is correct or not, the calculations were not part of the contract unfortunately.

 

Assuming their Terms and Conditions are as watertight as King refers to above then any attempt to litigate may be futile.Taking that into account and if external fees are as above then £250 may be the better deal and you would just have to swallow your pride...unless you can get a similar external quote.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[steampowered]

You may find some assistance from the law of 'implied terms' - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_terms_in_English_law. It sounds ridiculous that you could have a contract for someone to build a roof but not provide the drawings needed to get planning approval for the roof.

 

Contract law says that terms will be implied into a contract if they are necessary to give effect to the reasonable expectations of the parties. If it is true that you cannot get your roof signed off by planning without the drawings, it sounds to me like it would be an implied term of the contract that the drawings would be provided. This would be especially strong if common practice in the roofing industry is to provide the drawings.

 

I also think that the Supply of Services and Goods Act 1982 implies a term into your contract that the goods provided during the service must be fit for purpose. If you are not provided with the drawings necessary to get planning sign-off, and you cannot readily obtain those drawings from another source, then the roof was not fit for purpose. This will apply regardless of any T&Cs.

 

I had a look at their website and the FAQs you referred to. I do not believe that this will help them. A statement that 'they can provide drawings' is ambiguous. It is not obvious to me what is meant by the word 'can' and it is not stated whether the drawings will or will not be provided in any particular case. If this company wanted to have a right to withhold the drawings, they should have stated that expressly. I am also not convinced that the FAQs form part of your contract - they are pre-contract representations, they are not the terms of your contract.

 

It sounds to me like you have grounds to push them further for the drawings. You could go to court if they still refuse to provide the drawings. The risk is that they may try to counterclaim for the debt they say is owed.