Water resale dispute - PLEASE READ

[Miss Bumble]

Desperate for advice

This is somewhat complex but THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR READING. Please advise as this making me so unwell.

I rent a flat which is owned privately, it is managed on behalf of the owner by an agent. The flat is 2 bed and is in a multi complex unit managed by a temporary debt recovery firm.

My tenancy commenced 2009. I was advised and have proof that I was going to be linked by the agent, to all utility companies. This was successful with Gas and Electricity but I soon learned that water was indeed privatised and known as resale. I did not agree to this and my concern was supported when bills were finally issued. I took dispute with the billing procedure as it had no consistency – often 8-10 months between invoices and they were not itemised in terms of meter readings or unit costs or how the breakdown in costs were achieved. I have a water metre which is located outside of the flat, the key to which I was told only last year is my front door key.

I contacted the previous management of the complex and there began my ongoing dispute. I will make clear that until 2012 I paid all bills for which I have receipts.

In June 2012 the new management company took over due to the bankruptcy of the previous owner and through my diligence in pursuing lawful billing, I became aware that the previous company left owing SW water £10,000.00 in debt. I later learnt that the bank to which I paid my bills was the private account of the then owner. I accept that this does not affect me in that the debt was written off by SW Water but I stated in an email to the new company that I wanted, as I had been mid dispute, to have all future bills detail when readings were taken, how the charges are met, unit costs/any administration costs etc. I have emails evidencing all the above.

On January 25th 2013 an invoice was finally sent to the owner of the property, this was sent then to the letting agent who finally forwarded it to me in March. I must make clear at this point that bill is in the name of the flat’s owner but of course under tenancy agreement I am responsible.

The invoice was dated for the period of 19/06/2012 – 28/12/2012. The balance due as stated on the invoice was for £346.88p. No meter readings as requested, no breakdown in costs, nothing but a sum total. I paid the management company of the complex as the bill was issued by them and it was them with whom I had raised my concerns, as providers. I set up an arrangement to pay instalments of £65 per month as of April and paid x 3 instalments plus 1 ad hoc payment of £35.96p in total £577.84p. Meanwhile I pursued with my request – itemised bills. The management company of the complex clearly became frustrated with this as they contacted me end of July 2013 to say that they were returning the full payment and that they would not correspond with me further as I am not the owner of the property.

They emailed this with written confirmation that until this date my bill was £577.84 they refunded the amount in full. I contacted the letting agent who until that time remained uninterested and obstructive – ‘You’re the tenant just pay’. I advised them that I could not make payment to the complex and that I would pay the letting agent which was agreed but I maintained that I wanted lawful billing asking – would you pay any sum placed before you not knowing how that sum was achieved?

Many emails exchanged which have been incredibly stressful, I am currently on S/L due to depression and it has taken me a week or more to face this next stage. I’m exhausted. The letting agency were finally in receipt of breakdown in costs, in January 2014 I receive my first itemised bill £1449.49 the breakdown in costs runs into difficulty when the reading for the period of 19/06/2012 – 18/12/2012 (some 10 days difference to original) £97.28p more?

Interesting though to note that they go on to state in emails between the letting agent and the management of the complex (email I believe linked to me in error) that my overall bill for Water and Sewerage would have been £2,403.87 since 2009 how do they reach this figure without record of accounts (which they say in email they do not hold) and if it is for the period of the commencement of tenancy, that would mean an average yearly bill of £480.6p which falls in line with the average yearly bill for South West Water and Sewerage usage based on a household that is metered as quoted by OFWAT and the water consumer counsel. I would accept this.

So how do they suggest that since June 2012 - June 2013 I owe £1074.61 twice above the average yearly use? I believe my bills to be excessive – they average £95 per month?

I ask this but the representative at the letting agency sits in as judge and jury and vets my concerns asking ‘more proof more evidence’ He bullies and belittles me, he sends emails that frustrate me as I am unable to communicate with any other person – It appears he has made this personal now asking that I pay £140 to credit check my daughter who has been living at the property since the start of tenancy – they knew this. I have 14 days to comply.

The current situation is I am stating to my letting agent that as I have evidence that until July 2013 my bill was paid in total, I will await an invoice from that period to present day. ‘NO’. I stated that I had met my contractual obligation and cannot be responsible for the management complex now saying that they made a ‘clerical error’ and that I am to pay the sum in total with immediate effect. I have paid the £577.68 and am currently told by the letting agency agent that he will not forward my concerns. The letting agent states that I do not have a case, he is the manager of finance and in my opinion not in a position to judge what is communicated or not to the providers.

I understand this is a bit complex and I have tried my best to explain it but as I said I am currently unwell and this only serves to cause me great distress – I have a folder of emails proving the inconsistency of figures. Finally, I have been to CAB they advise civil case, I had an appointment with a solicitor who advised that it may not be cost effective to have legal advice due to costs. I am a single parent, working but lone responsibility for all outgoings.

Many thanks for your time if you have read this, feels somewhat reassuring as I already feel less alone.

Edited March 18, 2014 by citizenB
spacing to make reading easier :)

[citizenB]

Can I just clarify that your water/sewage bills are sent to the Letting Agent/Landlord and they pay them - and then recover the amount from you ?

 

You are entitled to properly itemised bills - I wonder if a Subject Access Request to them would provide you with the information you request (are entitled to)?

 

Have you spoken to other tenants in the complex to see if they are having similar issues regarding this ?

 

I will try and find others on the site team that might be able to help further.

[Miss Bumble]

Citizen B

Many thanks for your swift reply. The water/sewerage bills are sent direct to the owner of the property. The owner then sends them to the letting agent who then send them to me. I have no understanding of the owners views as I am not able to explore this. I am aware that other tenants in the complex hold concern as I did have a note pushed under my door as did a neighbour. This tenant has subsequently left the complex. My neighbour paid the bill as she couldn't cope with the stress. It has taken since 2012 to get the itemised bill but my concern more greatly is that the bill issued now under my on-going requests differs to that of the original. The correspondence is so conflicting - one email states one thing, another a separate amount. I even had correspondence from the managers of the complex that stated that the overall sum included ground rent for which I am not responsible.

[citizenB]

As a back up plan, you might want to have a word with Shelter

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting

 

Call Shelter’s free housing advice helpline on

0808 800 4444.

 

Shelter's helpline is open 8am–8pm on weekdays and 8am–5pm on weekends, 365 days a year.

Calls are free from mobile phones and UK landlines.

 

 

They dont just deal with homeless situations and have advisors who can help with associated problems in private renting

[Miss Bumble]

Thank you, I intend to see shelter. I am just so exhausted with this. Sounds dramatic but it has been such a journey and one which I must persevere as it feels like me against the 'Big Guy's'. It is wrong, I feel it is wrong, I see from correspondence it is wrong but I am making little if any progress. I look forward to sleeping well, absent of this hanging over me. The letting agent is so obstructive and simply quotes tenancy obligation - it is of no concern to him that I am being charged twice the average yearly costs and indeed that the paper trail is so inaccurate that I don't know if I'm going mad? Am I right? it's frustrating. Thank you though, it's a comfort to know that people are taking the time to read or even advise me on this. It's very kind.

[ploddertom]

Here's a couple of links that may be worth reading + a PDF file.

 

http://news.rla.org.uk/governments-proposals-relating-to-water-charging/

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_energy_and_water_supply_e/consumer_water_supply_e/consumer_problems_with_paying_your_water_bill_e/paying_your_water_bills_if_you_are_a_tenant.htm

[Miss Bumble]

Plodder Tom

 

 

Thank you for the attachments. I have read resale OFWAT and emailed the consumer council. The advice suggests informing the provider of your concerns, I am unable to do this as stated as of July 2013. The provider (the management company) declined to correspond with me and thus I was left with the only point of contact being the letting agent who doesn't care for my concerns and would appear intent on bullying me to pay. I do believe that if the paperwork received July 2013 states that to that date, all money paid (for the bill in total) would be returned, I would pay that bill as obligated, which I did, and await invoice as of August 2013 to date. Am I responsible for the providers administrative incompetence?. Thank you for your time Tom, much appreciated.

[Miss Bumble]

In addition I have just been provided with Dec 2013- January 2014 Monthly bill and it again has no readings!! - £95.00 'sigh'

[kjun]

Can I clarify, your post states you have access to your meter?

 

Ongoing this should assist with working out whether future bills are accurate by taking and recording your own meter readings (weekly would be good)

 

This will give you a consumption figure and unit costs and standing charges are usually on the Water Companies website or you can just ring and ask them.

 

Water charges will be cubic meters used x the unit cost

 

Wastewater is based on 92.5% of the water usage x unit cost (in my area) then add it all together with the standing charges.

 

Don't see any data protection issues in fact asking the water company for historic meter reads then working out all your previous bills again using the respective unit costs which will differ year to year but again can be obtained.

[Miss Bumble]

Hello and thank you for your time. I do have access, the metre is located in a communal hallway. I am taking readings, I only started 2 weeks ago as my head space has been limited. I should explain that this isn't entirely due to the water situation, it is a multitude of things that leaves me quite focussed on this and little else, it's an unhealthy focus but one which needs to be resolved. I'm quite hopeful that it will be.

I have explored this site and taken time to read of the situations others face but the amazing advice that is given, it's so encouraging and I'm hopeful for the first time in a while - it's such a relief to just share this let alone receive advice... wonderful.

[stu007]

Hi

 

This link may also be of use its the Valuation Office Agency - Rent Officer Handbook - Services : Private Water and Drainage

 

http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/publications/Manuals/RentOfficerHandbook/FairRentRegistration/TenancyInformation/s-roh-services-private-water-and-drainage.html

[Miss Bumble]

Thank you. I will take time to read that.

Questions;

 

 

1 - Can the paperwork be challenged example - The inconsistency of figures and to whom do I write other than the letter agent? My name is not on any invoice nor will the provider correspond with me. I am under tenancy agreement to pay costs incurred to the landlord and wish to honour any debt but not be bullied into paying in full at this stage when I am not satisfied that the consumption/charges are correct or indeed that they can send inconsistent figures that suggest various sums are owed.

 

 

2 - I have paid the bill up to July 2013 and understand that I must contribute to cost incurred since. (I have had to wait until January 2014 for the invoice) I need to discuss with the letting agent a payment programme within means, any templates or letters that would suit this specifically? All I receive are emails or letters demanding payment in full. I see from other threads that water has no billing code as they are not a priority bill therefore if there is a debt, it can be treated as any other normal debt and paid in reasonable instalments - an option I have not been offered. This will demonstrate a willing to pay but will allow me time to put other helpful advice into action.

 

 

3 - Do I have to keep communication in such detail to the letting agent, as said before the agent has made this somewhat personal and is obstructive - The agent is contacting me, I received an email yesterday asking that I explain updates.

 

 

Thank you.

[Miss Bumble]

Please - Can anyone help me with a letter template or advise on how I word this?

 

 

I think that until this is resolved I should make an offer of monthly payment to the letting agent. He demands full settlement. I am in no position to do so but maintain that there are sufficient errors on this account to build a case for dispute. Meanwhile I am troubled by it therefore wish to make payments but don't know how to word this as I have writers block as it has been so stressful at times. I wonder if there is something I can send that protects my rights as a consumer but show's willing and responsibility.

[Surfer01]

You mentioned a water meter. Is this for the complex or just for your flat?

[Miss Bumble]

Hi

Thank you for your post, I had thought that my thread is so dull to read that it would likely go dormant so thank you for reading!

The complex has roughly 80 flats, 2 main metres registered to South West Water - one for either block. The flats are however all metred, installed by the previous owner and one to each flat for the purpose of resale. The maintenance man reads these metres as and when and then we are passed (eventually) a bill. The bills have as I said only just been itemised after 5 years in total, 2 years with current management. I was told late last year that I can access my metre, not a great experience as it is in a cupboard with many other metres the floor of which is a wide mesh which you stand on over a car park below - I am 3 floors up but I don't like standing on it! I have started to take readings recently but remain battling the bill. The administration on behalf of the management is so scatty, I am so fed up with it.