friend switching from JSA to ESA - can a sanction be applied?

[boomboomboom]

Yes - if you're "matched" to a job by a JSA adviser then you can be sanctioned if you don't apply. You could also be sanctioned if you don't attend training courses you're referred to by the Jobcentre. If you're on the Work Programme, the Jobcentre won't refer you for courses but your WP provider might.

 

well i was not matched to a job by a jsa adviser it was 2 weeks a go i got ask to attend a job information session at ingeus and after it u had the chance to go ahead and get put forward for interviews or if it did not suit u then to let the my ingeus adivser know that it was not for me and i sayed it was not for me and she sayed thats fine and asked her if i would be sanctioned and she replied saying we are not the job centre so we wont be sanction u u will just have to keep working harder for jobs as i all ready do and i always attend my work programme that been asked to go to and always go to my appointments if am not well al call in.

[antone]

Then you are probably fine. I do suspect that our WP watchers on the forum would suggest that you treat anything you're told by an Ingeus adviser with a pinch of salt. Still, it doesn't, on the face of it, sound like they're intending to raise any sanction doubt in this case.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Yes - if you're "matched" to a job by a JSA adviser then you can be sanctioned if you don't apply.

 

Yes you certainly can.

[joeski]

my friend got his ATOS questionnaire through the post today, does this mean his ESA claim has been processed or he has to complete the questionnaire before it can be processed?

[antone]

my friend got his ATOS questionnaire through the post today, does this mean his ESA claim has been processed or he has to complete the questionnaire before it can be processed?

 

You mean the ESA50 form? The claim should still be processed, but he must take care to return it by the deadline date or he could have problems later.

[joeski]

You mean the ESA50 form? The claim should still be processed, but he must take care to return it by the deadline date or he could have problems later.

 

yes thats right, i think it said it has to be returned by the 10th april. does the fact that he has received an ESA50 mean the claim has been processed?

[45002]

yes thats right, i think it said it has to be returned by the 10th april. does the fact that he has received an ESA50 mean the claim has been processed?

 

Yes.

 

And send esa 50 back with proof of posting ie Recovered delivery or Data post ...

[joeski]

Yes.

 

And send esa 50 back with proof of posting ie Recovered delivery or Data post ...

 

thats good and how long will he have to wait for an assessment?

[antone]

thats good and how long will he have to wait for an assessment?

 

How long is a piece of string? Anything from a few weeks to a few months, according to what folks on this forum have reported. The assessment doesn't need to happen before he'll get payments, though.

[joeski]

How long is a piece of string? Anything from a few weeks to a few months, according to what folks on this forum have reported. The assessment doesn't need to happen before he'll get payments, though.

 

thats good to know but does it mean the claim has been processed if he got and ESA50 through?

[antone]

thats good to know but does it mean the claim has been processed if he got and ESA50 through?

 

Yes, probably - the procedure for an Atos referral doesn't start until the claim is established on the computer. He can call the Benefits Centre that pays his claim (not the local Jobcentre) to ask for clarity on this and when he can expect payment. His payment day may not be the same as it was when he claimed JSA.

[joeski]

Yes, probably - the procedure for an Atos referral doesn't start until the claim is established on the computer. He can call the Benefits Centre that pays his claim (not the local Jobcentre) to ask for clarity on this and when he can expect payment. His payment day may not be the same as it was when he claimed JSA.

 

i will inform him but the chances of him actually ringing up are small as he doesn't feel comfortable on the phone, hence why he made the ESA claim via an ESA1 instead of phoning them. he'll probably check his bank everyday until his payment.

[antone]

i will inform him but the chances of him actually ringing up are small as he doesn't feel comfortable on the phone, hence why he made the ESA claim via an ESA1 instead of phoning them. he'll probably check his bank everyday until his payment.

 

If he is able to speak on the phone long enough to clear basic security then you, or anyone else he trusts, could speak for him.

[joeski]

If he is able to speak on the phone long enough to clear basic security then you, or anyone else he trusts, could speak for him.

 

 

thats a good idea, ive told him to check tomorrow to see if anything has gone into his bank.

[joeski]

my friend is on ESA for anxiety and depression issues, he received a letter through the post from his WP provider about an advisor appointment but the wording is for a JSA claim. i haven't been on here in a while and ive checked the WP guidance which clearly states the working has to be different for the 2 benefits so does my friend have to attend the appointment even though he is on ESA and the letter says if he does not attend his JSA claim might be affected?

[Bluiiize]

I would most def attempt to find out what exactly it is they are saying , if you further do not attend they will accuse your friend of not trying all avenues to discover what they require of him. They tend to be a law unto themselves use the telephone number on the letter.

[joeski]

I would most def attempt to find out what exactly it is they are saying , if you further do not attend they will accuse your friend of not trying all avenues to discover what they require of him. They tend to be a law unto themselves use the telephone number on the letter.

 

ok thanks i will tell him to call them tomorrow, also he is still on assessment rate ESA and do WP advisors have the power to call a claimants doctor?

[Bluiiize]

They will not call them if they need information they normally write to Doctors

[joeski]

They will not call them if they need information they normally write to Doctors

 

 

personally id put nothing past WP providers, how often do ESA claimants on assessment rate have to attend the WP?

[antone]

personally id put nothing past WP providers, how often do ESA claimants on assessment rate have to attend the WP?

 

Claimants on the Assessment Rate do not have to attend the WP. It gets a bit complicated for those who were previously on JSA, as the Provider often doesn't understand the rules and continues to send appointments and generally harass the claimant. However, only claimants on the WRAG can be mandatory WP participants. Assessment Rate claimants may be required to attend interviews at the Jobcentre on occasion, however.

 

WP Providers should not be contacting doctors, whether by letter or phone.

[joeski]

Claimants on the Assessment Rate do not have to attend the WP. It gets a bit complicated for those who were previously on JSA, as the Provider often doesn't understand the rules and continues to send appointments and generally harass the claimant. However, only claimants on the WRAG can be mandatory WP participants. Assessment Rate claimants may be required to attend interviews at the Jobcentre on occasion, however.

 

WP Providers should not be contacting doctors, whether by letter or phone.

 

thanks for the information, what will happen if my friend decides not to attend?

[antone]

thanks for the information, what will happen if my friend decides not to attend?

 

Probably nothing, but he should be prepared for the possibility that the WP provider will send a WP8 (sanction referral) to the Jobcentre. In theory, they should send it straight back to the WPP and tell them to learn the damn rules, but if they don't, they should certainly ask him to comment before applying any sanction. His comment should be that:

 

a) WP participation is not mandatory for ESA Assessment Phase claimants; and

b) The wording on his MAN was in any case incorrect for an ESA claimant. The MAN was therefore invalid, and no activity is mandatory without a valid MAN.

 

It may not come to that. Best be prepared is all.

[joeski]

Probably nothing, but he should be prepared for the possibility that the WP provider will send a WP8 (sanction referral) to the Jobcentre. In theory, they should send it straight back to the WPP and tell them to learn the damn rules, but if they don't, they should certainly ask him to comment before applying any sanction. His comment should be that:

 

a) WP participation is not mandatory for ESA Assessment Phase claimants; and

b) The wording on his MAN was in any case incorrect for an ESA claimant. The MAN was therefore invalid, and no activity is mandatory without a valid MAN.

 

It may not come to that. Best be prepared is all.

 

thanks i will tell him and hopefully he'll stop worrying so much about it, ive told him to email to advisor the day before saying he will not be attending as he is currently in the process of getting help for anxiety and depression.

[Vikix]

Be very careful when dealing with parasites such as the Work Programme. They probably sent your friend the letter worded as it was for a JSA claimant. But they probably already know he is suffering from Mental Health issues and he is on ESA. In their eyes he will be an easy target for them, easy to manipulate. They did the same with me and at the same time they make money from it. They are a law unto themselves and they need getting rid of.

 

Once he get's into the office they will having signing all sorts and threatening him with a sanction to receive the best results.

 

He would be better off calling them rather than emailing, they tend to ignore emails.

[antone]

Be very careful when dealing with parasites such as the Work Programme. They probably sent your friend the letter worded as it was for a JSA claimant. But they probably already know he is suffering from Mental Health issues and he is on ESA. In their eyes he will be an easy target for them, easy to manipulate. They did the same with me and at the same time they make money from it. They are a law unto themselves and they need getting rid of.

 

Once he get's into the office they will having signing all sorts and threatening him with a sanction to receive the best results.

 

He would be better off calling them rather than emailing, they tend to ignore emails.

 

As an ESA claimant in the Assessment Phase, joeski's friend has no need to engage with the WPP at all. Oh sure, they will probably attempt to fool him into thinking otherwise, but any decision to sanction must be made by the DWP, not the WPP.