Defending small claims court action

[jacobina]

About a year ago my daughter's horse suffered an accident in the field. The vet was called and over the next 3 weeks the vet managed to completely miss a broken jaw, mistreat and badly handle a young and inexperienced horse whilst in his care, traumatise the horse by repeatedly adminstering sedation to perform a standing operation whilst the horse was reacting badly and 'on adrenalin'., and failed to successfully treat an infected puncture wound to the horse's face which was producing a particularly purulent heavy pussy discharge. On his last visit, he dismissed the animals obvious weak and poorly demeanour and said to continue the antibiotics (which the horse had been taking for 3 weeks with no improvement) and he took cultures which would take at least 5 working days to grow before any results would be available. The vet left and I immediately took the horse to another vet for a second opinion - within one hour the second vet diagnosed a bone infection, hospitalised the horse for 7 days and put the horse on intravenous antibiotics and painkillers with 24 hour care. Also diagnosed the broken jaw. The horse was critically ill, but happily survived due to the 2nd vets prompt and attentive action.

 

The first vet is taking us to small claims court for non payment of his bill, obviously we have two large bills. We do not feel he provided a satisfactory service etc.

 

The court have asked for a single joint expert witness. The claimant failed to respond in time to the first court order and then wrote to the court with an excuse, so the court issued a 2nd order. The claimant did not contact us for 3 weeks so we offered 3 names for expert witness purposes. The claimants eventually choose one which he had a personal relationship with! The expert wrote to the court declining to act because of conflict of interest. The court issued a 3rd court order. Again the claimant didn't contact us for three weeks and then choose three new expert suggestions. We replied within a couple of days asking if they were dismissing the two remaining names we had suggested as we had already researched them. A few days later we chased the claimant again. 9 days later the claimant denies receiving our emails and chases us for a response, but.... replies to our email thread! The court order expires in just 2 working days and it is impossible to comply with it due to the claimants lack of speed or understanding of court procedures. They seem to think they only have to supply a name to the court. The court order says 'the time for a single joint expert to report is extended to 19 feb".

 

3 court orders have now failed. Please can someone advise if we are a) in a position to ask for the claim to be dismissed and if so how and what grounds. B) do we need to formally let the court see the emails as it is likely that the claimant is blaming us for the delays. C). Can we write to the court, my understanding is that the claimant is supposed to drive this not the defendant. D) agree a name from the claimants latest list un researched.

 

Any advice and help would be much appreciated. Thankyou!

[BankFodder]

You should apply to the court to strike out the claim. Use a form N244.

 

Why didn't you make a counterclaim?

[jacobina]

You should apply to the court to strike out the claim. Use a form N244.

 

Why didn't you make a counterclaim?

 

Will look into the N244

 

Didn't realise we could counter claim - is it too late to do that now it's gone this far?

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved to Legal Issues Forum.

[steampowered]

I agree with applying for a strike out due to repeated non-compliance with court orders. I think you probably won't get a strike out. But you can ask for an order, in the alternative, that one of the parties you suggested is appointed as the joint expert. Your N244 should be accompanied by a witness statement setting all this out, and referring to the correspondence which should be printed and attached to the witness statement. Remember that you need to give the judge all the details he needs to make a decision in a clear fashion, he is not a mind reader and if you do not provide him with the evidence and a clear summary of the evidence in your witness statement he may assume that both parties are to blame.

[jacobina]

Thank you Steampowered. So that I am clear, am I submitting one form N244 which includes a witness statement setting out all the detail regarding noncompliance of court orders and the request for an order to use one of the original suggested experts? Or, as you think it unlikely we will get a strike out do we send a letter making the judge aware to the court detailing everything including a request for original suggested expert. Which is most likely to gain the respect of the courts/Judge? Obviously, I know you don't have a crystal ball but would value your opinion. Am finding the small claims track actually quite unnecessarily complicated.

[steampowered]

Thank you Steampowered. So that I am clear, am I submitting one form N244 which includes a witness statement setting out all the detail regarding noncompliance of court orders and the request for an order to use one of the original suggested experts? Or, as you think it unlikely we will get a strike out do we send a letter making the judge aware to the court detailing everything including a request for original suggested expert. Which is most likely to gain the respect of the courts/Judge? Obviously, I know you don't have a crystal ball but would value your opinion. Am finding the small claims track actually quite unnecessarily complicated.

 

You can probably get away with "letters" to the judge in small claims but it is not good practice. The general rule is that you should be making a formal application if you want the court to do something. The evidence and reasons for your application should be set out in a formal witness statement because a witness statement is a formal document verified by a statement of truth whereas a letter is not.

 

Personally I would put the following wording in the box which says "What order are you asking the court to make":

 

"An order that:

 

1. The Claimant's claim be struck out under CPR 3.4 (2) ©; and

2. Costs of the application to be summarily assessed and to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant.

 

Because the Claimant has failed to comply with a court orders dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE], a court order dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE] and a court order dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE].

 

In the alternative, an order that [EXPERT] be appointed as joint expert and paragraph [NUMBER] of the court order dated [DATE] be modified accordingly, for the same reason."

 

The complication is that, presumably, you have already received orders setting out when the expert is to be instructed and when he is to provide his report. If these deadlines have now been missed and are unrealistic, then you may need to suggest that the deadlines are changed. This should be done by attaching a draft order similar to what has already been passed but with your expert appointed and the dates modified to something sensible.

 

Make sure you have read and digested Part 23 of the CPR and good luck.

[jacobina]

You can probably get away with "letters" to the judge in small claims but it is not good practice. The general rule is that you should be making a formal application if you want the court to do something. The evidence and reasons for your application should be set out in a formal witness statement because a witness statement is a formal document verified by a statement of truth whereas a letter is not.

 

Personally I would put the following wording in the box which says "What order are you asking the court to make":

 

"An order that:

 

1. The Claimant's claim be struck out under CPR 3.4 (2) ©; and

2. Costs of the application to be summarily assessed and to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant.

 

Because the Claimant has failed to comply with a court orders dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE], a court order dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE] and a court order dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE].

 

In the alternative, an order that [EXPERT] be appointed as joint expert and paragraph [NUMBER] of the court order dated [DATE] be modified accordingly, for the same reason."

 

The complication is that, presumably, you have already received orders setting out when the expert is to be instructed and when he is to provide his report. If these deadlines have now been missed and are unrealistic, then you may need to suggest that the deadlines are changed. This should be done by attaching a draft order similar to what has already been passed but with your expert appointed and the dates modified to something sensible.

 

Make sure you have read and digested Part 23 of the CPR and good luck.

 

Thank you for this, it is much appreciated. We are working on this over the weekend.

[wonky100]

Hello Jacobina

 

When we were sued the claimant also failed to respond to court orders. After they failed to respond to the 2nd we made an N244 application (we were in the fast track court though not the small claims court). We requested that the claim be struck out or failing that security for costs. Both requests were denied, which was extremely frustrating and left us wondering whether there was any justice. As you say, shouldn't the claimant be driving the claim? We were however, awarded costs for the application(s) (we made 3 separate applications all to be heard at the same time on the advice of the Court, when 1 application and 1 fee would have sufficed) and our time.

 

Further orders were issued and again the claimant failed to comply. We made a further application for the claim to be struck out. It wasn't!

 

Further orders were issued, each time just giving the claimant more and more time leaving us to wonder what was wrong with the justice system. However, these orders did state that failure to comply would result in the claim being struck out, which eventually it was.

 

Despite the claim being struck out, the claimant then made an application for relief from sanction, ie they wanted the claim reinstated. We couldn't believe the cheek of it and were warned to expect the claim to be reinstated.

 

However, with the help of CAG we went to this hearing very prepared and am pleased to report that their application was dismissed.

 

Costs were awarded to us although we haven't seen a penny.

 

Eventually the Courts will sending them away with their tail between their legs. Unfortunately, in the meantime this costs the defendant not to mention the stress it causes.

 

Definately make an application to have the claim struck out, if you don't highlight the claimants failings now and throughout, the DJ may think that you are quite happy with the delays. Failing that request that the Court agree to one of your suggestions re the SJE. It depends on how the order is worded and whilst you would think that it would be down to the Claimant to appoint the SJE this isn't necessarily the case. However, both parties have to agree a SJE and if you have done research and can prove that you have then I think this will go a long way to help you in the case. In our case, the claimant waited until the last minute to appoint our SJE. & don't forget both you and the claimant will probably be equally and jointly liable for the SJE's fees. So if the claimant doesn't pay you may be liable for the full cost. I know in our case that the claimant didn't pay within the terms and conditions and we were copied into correspondence chasing payment. Whether he paid eventually I don't know as I wasn't going looking for extra costs!

 

Keep calm, keep focused and be organised.

 

Good luck

[jacobina]

You can probably get away with "letters" to the judge in small claims but it is not good practice. The general rule is that you should be making a formal application if you want the court to do something. The evidence and reasons for your application should be set out in a formal witness statement because a witness statement is a formal document verified by a statement of truth whereas a letter is not.

 

Personally I would put the following wording in the box which says "What order are you asking the court to make":

 

"An order that:

 

1. The Claimant's claim be struck out under CPR 3.4 (2) ©; and

2. Costs of the application to be summarily assessed and to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant.

 

Because the Claimant has failed to comply with a court orders dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE], a court order dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE] and a court order dated [DATE] to do [TASK] by [DATE].

 

In the alternative, an order that [EXPERT] be appointed as joint expert and paragraph [NUMBER] of the court order dated [DATE] be modified accordingly, for the same reason."

 

The complication is that, presumably, you have already received orders setting out when the expert is to be instructed and when he is to provide his report. If these deadlines have now been missed and are unrealistic, then you may need to suggest that the deadlines are changed. This should be done by attaching a draft order similar to what has already been passed but with your expert appointed and the dates modified to something sensible.

 

Make sure you have read and digested Part 23 of the CPR and good luck.

 

Pls can I ask for your advice again. On the N244 question 5 asks how we want the application dealt with, what do I tick, or is this n/a? I.e at a hearing/without a hearing/tel hearing. The notes say you can only tick without a hearing if the other party are in agreement.

 

Also, it has been suggested we can also ask the court to dismiss the case as in all probability we would win it and then attach the 2nd vets clinic notes stating how the horse presented that day, the scan findings, immediate hospitalisation and treatment. What is your opinion? The present court order expires on the 19th feb, is there a timescale for submitting the 244? I ask because the court are likely to reissue and may do before the judge sees our application. Obviously we will get it submitted as quickly as poss, but want to also be as thorough as we can.

 

Thankyou!

[jacobina]

Hello Jacobina

 

When we were sued the claimant also failed to respond to court orders. After they failed to respond to the 2nd we made an N244 application (we were in the fast track court though not the small claims court). We requested that the claim be struck out or failing that security for costs. Both requests were denied, which was extremely frustrating and left us wondering whether there was any justice. As you say, shouldn't the claimant be driving the claim? We were however, awarded costs for the application(s) (we made 3 separate applications all to be heard at the same time on the advice of the Court, when 1 application and 1 fee would have sufficed) and our time.

 

Further orders were issued and again the claimant failed to comply. We made a further application for the claim to be struck out. It wasn't!

 

Further orders were issued, each time just giving the claimant more and more time leaving us to wonder what was wrong with the justice system. However, these orders did state that failure to comply would result in the claim being struck out, which eventually it was.

 

Despite the claim being struck out, the claimant then made an application for relief from sanction, ie they wanted the claim reinstated. We couldn't believe the cheek of it and were warned to expect the claim to be reinstated.

 

However, with the help of CAG we went to this hearing very prepared and am pleased to report that their application was dismissed.

 

Costs were awarded to us although we haven't seen a penny.

 

Eventually the Courts will sending them away with their tail between their legs. Unfortunately, in the meantime this costs the defendant not to mention the stress it causes.

 

Definately make an application to have the claim struck out, if you don't highlight the claimants failings now and throughout, the DJ may think that you are quite happy with the delays. Failing that request that the Court agree to one of your suggestions re the SJE. It depends on how the order is worded and whilst you would think that it would be down to the Claimant to appoint the SJE this isn't necessarily the case. However, both parties have to agree a SJE and if you have done research and can prove that you have then I think this will go a long way to help you in the case. In our case, the claimant waited until the last minute to appoint our SJE. & don't forget both you and the claimant will probably be equally and jointly liable for the SJE's fees. So if the claimant doesn't pay you may be liable for the full cost. I know in our case that the claimant didn't pay within the terms and conditions and we were copied into correspondence chasing payment. Whether he paid eventually I don't know as I wasn't going looking for extra costs!

 

Keep calm, keep focused and be organised.

 

Good luck

 

 

Thankyou for your comments and support, I am finding this whole process unnecessarily complicated and stressful so it is good to know it isn't just me! You say the court offered advice? I am struggling to get any advice out of them as they 'don't give legal advice' and have just told us to put it in a letter to the judge....... Finding any help is proving trying and the CAG are to be congratulated on the support their members very kindly offer . We nearly lost a 4 year old valuable horse due to the first vets poor standard of care. Thanks again.

[renegadeimp]

I would say with a hearing, so you can stand in front of the judge and have your say along with evidence. It will force the other party to attend to, and if they dont, then the judge would take a very dim view of them not appearing.

[andydd]

Hi.

 

Generally all such applications are held with a hearing, and doesnt really matter which box you tick and giving that yours is possibly complex I'd just tick WITH hearing and give a time scale of perhaps 45mins.

 

It would make sense to get it in before 19th if you can , is the court local, check the opening times and pop along yourself, court staff are generally helpful. But if not then send it as quick as you can.

 

It would appear to me that a possible option is Summary judgment, unlike suggested it be struck out, Summary Judgment is a official application to have case struck out due to the claimant having no prospect of success or an abuse of process.

 

It is a great option to quickly get rid of troublesome no hope of winning claims but does carry some risk, so I'd follow the advice you have been given so far and then come back here with the outcome.

 

Wiki > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_judgment

 

CPR > http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part24

 

Dont forget CPR is your friend, it is rules or guidelines governing every aspect of civil courts, if you are in doubt about something try googling and see if a CPR covers it (they are often accompanied by a PD - Practise Direction which covers more practical steps).

 

Andy

[steampowered]

I agree with andydd - ask for a hearing with time estimate 45minutes.

 

Also, it has been suggested we can also ask the court to dismiss the case as in all probability we would win it and then attach the 2nd vets clinic notes stating how the horse presented that day, the scan findings, immediate hospitalisation and treatment. What is your opinion? The present court order expires on the 19th feb, is there a timescale for submitting the 244? I ask because the court are likely to reissue and may do before the judge sees our application. Obviously we will get it submitted as quickly as poss, but want to also be as thorough as we can.

 

You can include this detail in your witness statement. You can attach the clinic notes as a labelled exhibit at the end of your statement (and make sure you include the relevant page references of the exhibit in the main body of your witness statement).

 

If you are getting at wanting compensation for the other stuff, then you would need to put in a counterclaim which would involve amending your defence.

 

Re the difference between strike-out and summary judgment:

 

For hopeless cases, parties should also consider the power of strike out pursuant to CPR 3.4. This is often used alongside summary judgment but there are differences. Strike out focuses on statements of case whereas summary judgment covers evidence as well. There are also procedural requirements which apply to summary judgment but not to strike out.

 

The Court of Appeal in S v Gloucestershire CC 2000 3 All ER 346 set out the following guidelines for where an application for summary judgment will succeed when a strike out application does not. The court must be satisfied of the following:

• All relevant facts reasonably capable of being brought before the court are before it.
  
• There is no real prospect of disputing such facts.
  
• There is no real prospect of oral evidence affecting the court's assessment of the facts.
  
• There is no real prospect of gaps in the evidence being filed.
  
• There is no real prospect of the claim or issue succeeding or of the defence or issue being successfully defended.
  
• There is no other reason why the case should be disposed of at trial.
  

Personally I think strike-out is more appropriate here because the issue is the non-compliance with court orders, but I guess there is no harm in throwing in a SJ application at the same time, and you may well get it if the written evidence is clear. Remember that you would then need to comply with the procedures set out in the part of the CPR on summary judgments.

[wonky100]

Hello again

 

Yes, we did receive some help from the Court clerks, but this did really depend on whom answered the phone! At the start of the proceedings my husband was sent a letter from the Court basically giving him a ticking off for ringing to ask what was happening and we were told that we couldn't ring for further info until after a specified date! We almost made a formal complaint but felt this may not have done our case much good, so had to bite our tongue.

 

However, as you'll see from my post, although some Clerks are very helpful, they can get it wrong. They told us we had to make a separate N244 application for each thing that we wanted and we made 3 at the same time thus having to pay 3 separate fees. The DJ awarded us the cost of 2 of these applications back plus our time and expenses. We then knew that any future application regardless of how many things we were asking of the court could be dealt with with one application.

 

I found that going into the Court got me the most assistance. Actually sitting down face to face with another person rather that it being impersonal over the phone. But then I was "lucky" and work a 10 min walk away from the Court in which the case was being heard.

 

Have you thought about contacting the Personal Support Unit? Our case was being heard at Manchester Civil Courts. I'm not sure if all Courts have a PSU. Give them a call in the first instance if you need help and you can always make an appointment. But they're not meant to give you legal advice, only offer guidance and support, but sometimes this is just what is needed. They attended the first hearing with my husband and I just for morale support and on the understanding that if we got a little carried away they were to give us a quick kick under the table to stop us from doing more harm than good. We were provided with assistance from a retired Judge, trainee solicitor, trainee barrister and fully fledged solicitors giving up their time to volunteer. May be worth a call.

 

Good luck

[jacobina]

A quick update! We submitted an N244 asking the court to strike out the claim on the basis that the claimant had not complied with three court orders. We supported this with written evidence in the form of emails proving we had done everything possible to comply but that the claimant was unprepared and oblivious to set timescales and that they needed to liaise ith us and the expert witness to engage his services. The N244 was submitted using the wording suggested by Steampowered - thankyou! We also added the clinical notes from the 2nd vet and summarised the first vets failures to treat the horse effectively and the second vets ability to diagnose within 2 hrs of admission and the subsequent hospitalisation for 7 days and new drug regime.

 

The result is a court order for a hearing at beginning of May to hear our 'strike out'. The claimant has been sent all our paperwork and I assume, are being asked to respond at the hearing.

 

I am assuming this is a good thing?

 

Please can you advise if we need to do anything other than support what we have already submitted? And, in theory is the claimant now the defendant at the court hearing if you see what I mean. There is now no expert witness report, is the judge only hearing the n244.

 

Thanks loads

[jacobina]

Hi.

 

Generally all such applications are held with a hearing, and doesnt really matter which box you tick and giving that yours is possibly complex I'd just tick WITH hearing and give a time scale of perhaps 45mins.

 

It would make sense to get it in before 19th if you can , is the court local, check the opening times and pop along yourself, court staff are generally helpful. But if not then send it as quick as you can.

 

It would appear to me that a possible option is Summary judgment, unlike suggested it be struck out, Summary Judgment is a official application to have case struck out due to the claimant having no prospect of success or an abuse of process.

 

It is a great option to quickly get rid of troublesome no hope of winning claims but does carry some risk, so I'd follow the advice you have been given so far and then come back here with the outcome.

 

Wiki > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_judgment

 

CPR > http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part24

 

Dont forget CPR is your friend, it is rules or guidelines governing every aspect of civil courts, if you are in doubt about something try googling and see if a CPR covers it (they are often accompanied by a PD - Practise Direction which covers more practical steps).

 

Andy

A quick update! We submitted an N244 asking the court to strike out the claim on the basis that the claimant had not complied with three court orders. We supported this with written evidence in the form of emails proving we had done everything possible to comply but that the claimant was unprepared and oblivious to set timescales and that they needed to liaise ith us and the expert witness to engage his services. The N244 was submitted using the wording suggested by Steampowered - thankyou! We also added the clinical notes from the 2nd vet and summarised the first vets failures to treat the horse effectively and the second vets ability to diagnose within 2 hrs of admission and the subsequent hospitalisation for 7 days and new drug regime.

 

The result is a court order for a hearing at beginning of May to hear our 'strike out'. The claimant has been sent all our paperwork and I assume, are being asked to respond at the hearing.

 

I am assuming this is a good thing?

 

Please can you advise if we need to do anything other than support what we have already submitted? And, in theory is the claimant now the defendant at the court hearing if you see what I mean. There is now no expert witness report, is the judge only hearing the n244.

 

Thanks loads

[andydd]

It all sounds like its going to plan.

 

I assume that this isnt a summary judgment application ?. (This can be done eralier on in proceedings normally before alocation, i.e before it is allocated to small claims track).

 

It is just a straight forward application to strike out the claimants claim. (Yes swapping claimant and defendant can be confusing, but I believe that you should stil refer to them as claimant, but if you get confused just use their name instead..Mr Vet or whatever they are called).

 

Did you mention any CPR rules in your N244 application ? You can get away without it, but courts like it if you can point to specific rules.

 

The relevant one here I believe is CPR 3.4 © -

 

"© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order." (http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03#IDAMLWKC).

 

You should mention that, if you didnt in your original application, you can add to it, by sending this further info. to the court and other side..and send all the info/docs you have recived so far, its best to set it all out neatly in the way courts prefer, Ive added a template to use.

 

You can also ask for costs (it never hurts to ask, I'm not sure if your set aside is considered on the small claims track or not, it maybe considered an interim/interlocutory application and thus outside of normall small claims 'no cost' rule). Use this form, http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/contents/form_section_images/pre-action_protocol/housing_disrepair_pdf_eps/prot_house_anx_f.pdf fill in how many hours youve sepnt, on various work and court/waiting/travelling time at rate of £18 per hour and send to court and other side a few days before hearing.

 

Andy

[steampowered]

You are the "Applicant" and the Claimant is the "Respondent" for the purposes of this application.

 

If you have sent your evidence to the court and the other side I do not think there is anything more you need to do. There is a fair bit of time until May, so I think the ball is really in the Claimant's court whether they will do anything before the hearing. If they still haven't done anything before May then I think the strike-out application will be strong. Good luck

[andydd]

I think its important to see whether the earlier order were premptory or unless orders, if the order uses the word 'unless' then its pretty final, and the person not complying would need a pretty good reason not to follow iot.

 

Andy

[jacobina]

It all sounds like its going to plan.

 

I assume that this isnt a summary judgment application ?. (This can be done eralier on in proceedings normally before alocation, i.e before it is allocated to small claims track).

 

It is just a straight forward application to strike out the claimants claim. (Yes swapping claimant and defendant can be confusing, but I believe that you should stil refer to them as claimant, but if you get confused just use their name instead..Mr Vet or whatever they are called).

 

Did you mention any CPR rules in your N244 application ? You can get away without it, but courts like it if you can point to specific rules.

 

The relevant one here I believe is CPR 3.4 © -

 

"© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order." (http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03#IDAMLWKC).

 

You should mention that, if you didnt in your original application, you can add to it, by sending this further info. to the court and other side..and send all the info/docs you have recived so far, its best to set it all out neatly in the way courts prefer, Ive added a template to use.

 

You can also ask for costs (it never hurts to ask, I'm not sure if your set aside is considered on the small claims track or not, it maybe considered an interim/interlocutory application and thus outside of normall small claims 'no cost' rule). Use this form, http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/contents/form_section_images/pre-action_protocol/housing_disrepair_pdf_eps/prot_house_anx_f.pdf fill in how many hours youve sepnt, on various work and court/waiting/travelling time at rate of £18 per hour and send to court and other side a few days before hearing.

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

 

No, it is not a summary judgement application, it is a strike out hearing.

 

We referred to CPR 3.4 (2) © as advised on this thread by yourself or Steampowered? Suggested wording and layout etc all very gratefully received and used appropriately - Thankyou.

 

We have since received a letter from the second vet in layman 'speak' explaining the treatment plan and drugs used, I will submit this as a document with the 'template' you have kindly supplied to request costs, you never know so will definitely apply! As a side issue, we have never received a copy of the first vets clinic notes despite requests, or seen any paperwork they have supplied to the court. Our N244 paperwork has been sent to the claimant with the latest court order/Notice of Hearing of Application for the strike out hearing. As yet no response from the claimant that we are aware of.......... But it is still 4 weeks to the hearing.

 

Thanks again for your ongoing support

J

[citizenB]

 

As a side issue, we have never received a copy of the first vets clinic notes

despite requests, or seen any paperwork they have supplied to the court.

 

Whilst the claim is ongoing, you have the right to request this information by way of CPR31.14 if the documents are referred to in the Claim or their witness statement or by CPR part 18 if not.

[jacobina]

I think its important to see whether the earlier order were premptory or unless orders, if the order uses the word 'unless' then its pretty final, and the person not complying would need a pretty good reason not to follow iot.

 

Andy

 

Our strike out hearing was today. Unfortunately, we were not successful . Really disappointed , the hearing lasted an hour fifteen minutes and the judge was definitely supportive to our case and gave the claimant a very hard time. The other party did not offer any real defence and one member of the claimant's two representatives arrived 30mins late bursting into the court room unannounced! The judge gave her a hard time also and said it was indicative of their behaviour in this prolonged court case....... However although the judge said she was very inclined to strike out their claim, she didn't. She has put in place a series of dates for the claimant to comply with to provide information to us and put in place an expert witness, instruct and provide a report all with our approval and agreement. This court order says 'unless' so if the claimant defaults on any of these dates, the case is over. The end date is 15th July for hearing the case proper.

 

I found the process a little hard today, as the case is in my daughter's name so I am attending in a supportive role. I am not sure what the conduct is before a judge? Do you speak only if you are spoken too, can you challenge the claimant direct, how much do you point out without perhaps appearing rude or pushy. I quietly guided my daughter with her paperwork and did speak up a couple of times when I felt the claimant was out of order, ie when one of the claimants said she was on holiday for three weeks and on return had a backlog of work so couldn't possibly comply with the court order! We all have stressful jobs, personal issues etc but we managed to prepare ourselves and the claimant - the judge did support this and told her the court was not at her disposal. I do wonder if we should have been more forceful, although the judge did seem to have the measure of the claimant, but has still given them a fourth opportunity. It seems being disrespectful of the court system can pay.

 

Disappointed. Any comments always welcome.

 

J

[renegadeimp]

I can only answer one part, but its one part you need to take note.

 

Yes, you MUST only speak when addressed. Either by the defendant or by the judge. NEVER overtalk or interrupt. Remember, you will have your time to ask questions. Bottle it in until its time to talk.

[steampowered]

It sounds like you acted properly. The idea of court proceedings is that each party has a chance to make submissions to the judge and the judge then makes a decision. Generally speaking the parties should not argue with each other in the courtroom. It is unlikely that being forceful would have made any difference.

 

The other side has been given a lot of leeway. The courts are beginning to tighten up, but it is generally the case that litigants in person are given an awful lot of leeway to miss deadlines. However an "unless" order is the final stage, if they do not comply with the unless provisions the claim will be struck out.