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    • Hi, despite saying you would post it up we have not seen the WS or EVRis WS. Please can you post them up.
    • Hi, Sorry its taken me so long to get round to this, i've been pretty busy today. Anyway, just a couple of things based on your observations.   Evri have not seen/read my WS (sent by post and by email) as they would have recognised the claim value is over £1000 as it includes court fees, trial fees, postage costs and interests, and there is a complete breakdown of the different costs and evidence. I'd say theres a 1% chance they read it , but in any case it won't change what they write. They refer to the claim amount that you claimed in your claim form originally, which will likely be in the same as the defence. They use a simple standard copy and paste format for WX and I've never seen it include any amount other than on the claim form but this is immaterial because it makes no difference to whether evri be liable and if so to what value which is the matter in dispute. However, I have a thinking that EVRi staff are under lots of pressure, they seem to be working up to and beyond 7pm even on fridays, and this is quite unusual so they likely save time by just copying and pasting certain lines of their defence to form their WX.   Evri accepts the parcel is lost after it entered their delivery network - again, this is in my WS and is not an issue in dispute. This is just one of their copy paste lines that they always use.   Evri mentions the £25 and £4.82 paid by Packlink - Again, had they read the WS, they would have realised this is not an issue in dispute. They probably haven't read your WS but did you account for this in your claim form?   Furthermore to the eBay Powered By Packlink T&Cs that Evri is referring to, Clauses 3b and c of the T&Cs states:  (b)   Packlink is a package dispatch search engine that acts as an intermediary between its Users and Transport Agencies. Through the Website, Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line. (c)  Each User shall then enter into its own contract with the chosen Transport Agency. Packlink does not have any control over, and disclaims all liability that may arise in contracts between a User and a Transport Agency This supports the view that once a user (i.e, myself) selects a transport agency (i.e Evri) that best suits the user's needs, the user (i.e, myself) enters into a contract with the chosen transport agency (i.e, myself). Therefore, under the T&Cs, there is a contract between myself and Evri.   This is correct but you have gone into this claim as trying to claim as a third party. I would say that you need to pick which fight you wan't to make. Either you pick the fight that you contracted directly with EVRi therefore you can apply the CRA OR you pick the fight that you are claiming as a third party contract to a contract between packlink and EVRi. Personally, I would go with the argument that you contracted directly with evri because the terms and conditions are pretty clear that the contract is formed with EVRi and so if the judge accepts this you are just applying your CR under CRA 2015, of which there has only been 2 judges I have seen who have failed to accept the argument of the CRA.   Evri cites their pre-existing agreement with Packlink and that I cannot enforce 3rd party rights under the 1999 Act. Evri has not provided a copy of this contract, and furthermore, my point above explains that the T&Cs clearly explains I have entered into a contract when i chose Evri to deliver my parcel.    This is fine, but again I would say that you should focus on claiming under the contract you have with EVRi as you entered into a direct contract with them according to packlink, as this gives less opportunites for the judge to get things wrong, also I think this is a much better legal position because you can apply your CR to it, if you dealt with a third party claim you would likely need to rely on business contract rights.   As explained in my WS, i am the non-gratuitous beneficiary as my payment for Evri's delivery service through Packlink is the sole reason for the principal contract coming into existence. I wouldn't focus this as your argument. I did think about this earlier and I think the sole focus of your claim should be that you contracted with evri and any term within their T&Cs that limits their liability is a breach of CRA. If you try to argue that the payment to packlink is the sole reason for the contract coming in between EVRI and packlink then you are essentially going against yourself since on one hand you are (And should be) arguing that you contracted directly with EVRi, but on the other hand by arguing about funding the contract between packlink and evri you are then saying that the contract is between packlink and evri not you and evri.  I think you should focus your argument that the contract is between you and evri as the packlink T&C's say.   Clearly Evri have not read by WS as the above is all clearly explained in there.   I doubt they have too, but I think their witness statement more than anything is an attempt to sort of confuse things. They reference various parts of the T&Cs within their WS and I've left some more general points on their WS below although I do think  point 3b as you have mentioned is very important because it says "Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line." which I would argue means that you contract directly with the agency. For points 9 and 10 focus on term 3c of the contract  points 15-18 are the same as points 18-21 of the defence if you look at it (as i said above its just a copy paste exercise) point 21 term 3c again point 23 is interesting - it says they are responsible for organising it but doesnt say anything about a contract  More generally for 24-29 it seems they are essentially saying you agreed to packlinks terms which means you can't have a contract with EVRI. This isnt true, you have simply agreed to the terms that expressly say your contract is formed with the ttransport agency (EVRi). They also reference that packlinks obligations are £25 but again this doesn't limit evris obligations, there is nothing that says that the transport agency isnt liable for more, it just says that packlinks limitation is set. for what its worth point 31 has no applicability because the contract hasn't been produced.   but overall I think its most important to focus on terms 3b and 3c of the contract and apply your rights as a consumer and not as a third party and use the third party as a backup   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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CapQuest chasing 1999 abbey Overdraft - Court Claim Received

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I have been repaying an old debt through CapQuest since about January 2011,

paying £25 a month (which is quite a lot of money for me at the moment as I am in a just over minimum wage paid job)


I had to cancel some of my direct debits for May because I have had some time off

due to three deaths and having to move house,


my wages this month weren't very good and I would've gone over my overdraft

and incurred bank charges which I simply can not afford.

One of the direct debits I cancelled was the CapQuest one


this morning at 8.01am I received a phone call from this number 01252 576 422.

I didn't answer it but Google'd it instead and found that it is something to do with CapQuest

obviously miffed at me for cancelling the direct debit and trying to get hold of me.


I cannot cope with constant phone calls off these people at the moment,

I am fighting hard to NOT have a breakdown with all the stress I have had this year :sad:


If I phone CapQuest can I say to them that £25 is just too much money for me at the moment

and as that they take a smaller amount until I am in a position to pay more?



The debt I owed was from years ago and was bank charges

that, at the time, I disputed and refused to pay.


I don't even know how much the debt was for

(I had a brain haemorrhage in 2007 and my memory of events

before that date is shockingly bad, as is my short term memory).


I am at a very very low point right now, there has been a lot of death

and upset just in the first five months of this year a

nd I really do feel that anything else which could add to the stress

will simply tip me over the edge.


I know it's my own fault for cancelling the direct debit and I am not saying I am refusing to pay it,

I just need some help on paying it a bit less than £25 a month until I'm better placed financially to pay more.


Please can anyone give me any advice on what I can do next?


CAB maybe? x

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Hi lil


Welcome to CAG


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The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.


Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.


Thread has been moved to the correct forum.

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I think the debt was for about £1,700 or around about there.


If possible I don't want CapQuest to have my new address either


(this flat is my only sanctuary at the moment), phone number should be enough.

Will I have to give them my new address? x

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Thanks Rebel :-)

Am going to have a proper read of them now.



Quick question though, does it make a difference that I have already been paying the old bank charges back?



if I start writing to them asking them for information etc,

I will have to give them my address won't I?


Would I be better asking the CAB to do this and see if they can find out if I even have to pay this debt back

as it was so long ago (it was easily over 6 years ago)


or let them come to a reasonable amount I can actually afford each month?

Or is there a way I can do all of what needs to be done myself

without letting CapQuest know my new address?


I've just been reading some other threads about bailiffs and debt collectors turning up at people's doors

and I'm horrified at some of the things they will do.


I couldn't cope with something like that, not right now :sad: x

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My immediate thinking is to WRITE to Capquest with your new address (you don't want them getting a CCJ by the back door do you!) and demanding they remove your phone number from their system. So long as you communicate with them in writing and don't avoid them, they must comply. With phone calls, they can say what they like as most mortals don't think to record their drivel. In writing, they can only speak the truth (or their version of it).


As you say in your first post you are not sure what the debt is, ask them to supply the proof of this debt. You will be surprised how many people we see who are being hounded for debts that aren't theirs.


Once you have ascertained the facts and it IS your debt, offer £5 a month (or less). What can they do? NOTHING without going to court.


Your home, your ESSENTIAL bills take priority over any DCA

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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My concern with this is if they send people round to my house, I could really just do without the stress of that at the moment.


 I will write to them asking them to provide me with proof of this debt.

What letter from the templates database should I use as my initial communication with them?

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As your situation is slightly different from the norm, I would use the 'prove it' letter which is in the library (top left) but only as a starter. I feel you would have to personalise it to your particular situation.

If we had template letters for every scenario, the forum would be just letters :-)

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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My concern with this is if they send people round to my house, I could really just do without the stress of that at the moment.


They won't send anyone round your house! :)

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Thank you everyone for all your advice so far.


I was tempted to just contact CapQuest by telephone and make new arrangements to pay the debt,


I think I would like to try and get more information on the debt, amount, etc.


This is the letter I am going to send to CapQuest (amended before sending of course).

Is this the correct letter to send?


I have never received anything from CapQuest with any information on the debt

and only had dealings with a man called Alaistar McCloud on the telephone,

which was only to discuss HOW much I would be allowed to repay each month.


I don't even know the account or reference number. God I'm stupid :sad:

This is what shows on my bank statement, should I use this reference number?




The debt was for bank charges which at the time I argued and disputed and, subsequently refused to pay. It wasn't a loan or credit card, just unfair (in my opinion) bank charges x


I'm not even sure if that is the correct amount


I have no paperwork relating to this debt (I am only really guessing that it's bank charges

as that's the only thing I can remember accruing from years ago



since my brain haemorrhage I can't remember about 70% of my life prior to the brain haemorrhage)


really I just wanna ask CapQuest to provide me with details of it but I don't know how to word the letter. x

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Now, this is just my opinion. Others with say different (the joys of a forum), sending a CCA request is tantamount to saying, 'yes this is my debt but I want you to prove it'


There is a 'fair' chance this is your debt but as you say, you have no real memory of it so your letter would include something along the lines of


'It has come to my attention that there may be a discrepancy with this debt therefore, I would like you to supply me the proof that this is my debt. It matters not that I have been making payments but because of a brain injury, I wasn't sure' -- you get my drift?


I think something like that informs them of your situation and allows you a get out if it turns this isn't your debt. Once they have 'proved' beyond doubt that this is your debt, we can help get charges (if any and what type) returned or reduced from the debt itself

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Yeah there is definitely a good chance that this IS my debt and I am not trying to shirk out of paying it back, but at the moment I just cannot afford £25 a month and now curiosity has gotten the better of me and I'd like to know more details of what the debt actually is. Thanks for the advice on wording my letter Silverfox :-) x


Who is Miss A. Simms? Is this the person I should address my letter to? x

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Yes there's the prove-it letter in the debt collection library but the OP has been paying so it's not an unknown debt.


That is true but the OP accepted CQs word that the debt was hers as she couldn't actually remember it due to the brain injury which is why I put the sentence above.


If this debts turns out to be hers then no harm done BUT if it transpires that this isn't her debt then we can move forward

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Not strictly true. They might not come under ss 77-78 regarding requesting an agreement, but they do come under the CCA 1974. And they only get exemption from falling under a properly executed agreement if the creditor can show they have complied with the conditions laid out in the 'Determination' made by the Director of Fair Trading as per Coutts v Sebestyen.



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Thank you everyone for all your advice so far.



Here is the letter I am going to print and send to CapQuest,

let me know what you think and if there is anything I should change or add:



template removed - dx

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I have been going through some old paperwork and have found the only written correspondence

I've ever received from CapQuest which is confirmation of setting up the direct debit.


It says "Debt Purchased from: Abbey" and "Amount o/s £1483.20"

and I keep getting phone calls (several times a day sometimes) from the same number,

which I believe is CapQuest or someone acting on their behalf.


This is the only information I have on the debt, don't know when the debt is from or when CapQuest took it over.

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That's OK, I just wanted to make sure.


The letter looks OK but I would note that they are unlikely to send a DEED of assignment as that is the deal done with the Original Creditor and them. What they would send (IF they have a copy) is the NOTICE of Assignment but it does no harm asking for the deed.


What you also need is the terms and conditions from inception of this account plus ALL variations during the life of the agreement.


I wouldn't hold your breath expecting them to supply within 12 WORKING days. There is now no penalty for them being late.


I would also put in your letter that you want them to place a hold on collections activity until the query is resolved. As they are ringing you I would state that you want to deal with this matter in writing only. You will maintain contact by this method so they then have to stop ringing you. If they continue rining once thy have received the letter, they are then in breach of the Office of Fair Tradings Debt Collection Guidance and should be reported if they do.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Thank you SilverFox, your advice is greatly appreciated. I'll get the letter sorted as soon as I'm home and will repost it one final time just to make sure it's good to go :) x

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