Not too sick to work (i.e. not entitled to ESA) but effectively unemployable?

[abc123def]

Just wondering, I think many people might fit such a catagory.

 

Say someone has severe IBS and spends hours on the loo, barely leaving it at all for 3-5 hours at a time 2-4 days each week. Along with the pain levels, and the embarrassment that would cause at work I would think working would be impossible but yet they would probably not meet the ESA descriptors would they? Who would employ someone like that?

 

I am thinking even if they managed to get in to the WRAG, the chances are they may well be unable to get to any advisor interviews due to being incapacitated by the IBS and unable to leave the loo?! Then they'd be sanctioned and lose their benefits?

[Nystagmite]

Would they not meet the following:

8. Absence or loss of control over extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting) despite the presence of any aids or adaptations normally used.

(a) At least once a week experiences

(i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or

(ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device;

sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing.

 

Which would get you into the support group.

[abc123def]

Ah, I hadn't realised that it could be as little as once a week! That solves that then, off to tell them. Cheers! (The minimum it happens to them is twice a week, sometimes more and always lasts hours)

[Nystagmite]

You're welcome Your friend has my sympathy - I've had an awful day in regards to IBS today. Thankfully, that is rare.

[unclebulgaria67]

Not knowing to much about IBS, but if there is an ATOS assessment, how will they be able to assess the situation ? If you have been in Hospital and have Doctors evidence about the nature of the condition, plus details of what can be done to help, then I would have thought that ATOS would have to accept these. It is just that I could see ATOS Doctors questioning what could be done to stop the problems that IBS caused, by a change of diet or other preventative action. Also they may say that places of work will have facilities (toilets) near to hand when required and employers would have to manage you to allow for the disability.

[estellyn]

Not knowing to much about IBS, but if there is an ATOS assessment, how will they be able to assess the situation ? If you have been in Hospital and have Doctors evidence about the nature of the condition, plus details of what can be done to help, then I would have thought that ATOS would have to accept these. It is just that I could see ATOS Doctors questioning what could be done to stop the problems that IBS caused, by a change of diet or other preventative action. Also they may say that places of work will have facilities (toilets) near to hand when required and employers would have to manage you to allow for the disability.

 

I have crohn's, which basically also means I spend hours in the toilet, have incontinence when I don't get there in time. Were I to work, I'd need a toilet, for my personal use within 5 feet of my desk - this isn't going to happen. In my opinion, the effects of diarrhea based illnesses like crohn's and IBs-d are not taken into account by the WCA descriptors - how many people can work when they have a bad stomach bug - only masochists, I guess, most people would call in sick. Crohn's and severe IBS-d are like having a near constant bad stomach bug, but there aren't descriptors for constant pain, nausea or diarrhea (unless you have incontinence).

[ashmk]

I suffer from IBS although I have 90% cured myself.

 

I feel our pain. I never used to leave the house a couple of years ago, thankfully I managed to put a stop to it before it ruined my life and now although I do get the stomach aches from time to time it no longer controls my life.

[estellyn]

I suffer from IBS although I have 90% cured myself.

 

I feel our pain. I never used to leave the house a couple of years ago, thankfully I managed to put a stop to it before it ruined my life and now although I do get the stomach aches from time to time it no longer controls my life.

 

Curious to know how you cured yourself.

[Nystagmite]

Also they may say that places of work will have facilities (toilets) near to hand when required and employers would have to manage you to allow for the disability.

 

Sometimes, that toilet is up a flight of stairs / elsewhere in the building. That isn't always long enough to hold on. I have been lucky today - the toilet is just a few feet away. That's not always close enough to actually wait. And then there's the stomach ache after and the loss of energy.

 

IBS and Crohns are much more than a dodgy stomach and needing the toilet.

[reallymadwoman]

The ATOS guidance on IBS says it can easily be controlled with diet and lifestyle changes in combination with drugs such as loperamide.

 

Note: this is not my opinion.

[estellyn]

The ATOS guidance on IBS says it can easily be controlled with diet and lifestyle changes in combination with drugs such as loperamide.

 

Note: this is not my opinion.

 

Yeah, I bet these people have never had severe IBS, and got to lunchtime having already taken the maximum dose of loperamide and realising that if you want to last the rest of the day at work you can't eat. Or the pain that doubles you over for hours.

 

Not to mention that many with IBS-D probably have something else - like crohn's which is very difficult to diagnose.

[unclebulgaria67]

Perhaps you just have to have an incident while you are in a JCP office and they will get the point.

[Nystagmite]

The ATOS guidance on IBS says it can easily be controlled with diet and lifestyle changes in combination with drugs such as loperamide.

 

Note: this is not my opinion.

 

I wonder if they realise that for some people, drugs don't actually work? Yes, I take loperamide; (some of you may know this as Immodium) but that's only if I have diarrhea. It doesn't stop the pain or fatigue.

[estellyn]

It doesn't stop the pain or fatigue.

Certainly doesn't, and if you've taken it many years, doesn't work on the diarrhea either - at least not for me.

[antone]

Perhaps you just have to have an incident while you are in a JCP office and they will get the point.

 

I presume you're being facetious?

[count orlok]

Perhaps you just have to have an incident while you are in a JCP office and they will get the point.

 

I was thinking about that. How would it go if you had an "accident" in the WCA.

 

I remember in the form for IB they asked about bowel troubles but they always said not to include IBS. As there was no where to mention IBS I always used to put it in anyway.

 

As for the lifestyle changes, diet and drugs. I can't change my lifestyle (being chronically sick is not actually a lifestyle choice despite what IDS et al say), I have a good diet (at least while I can still afford it) and I am on more than enough drugs as it is without taking even more.

[count orlok]

Just had a thought. They take no notice of heart attacks or being in a coma, so a bit of a smell (more than a bit in my case, as my wife tells me) is unlikely to phase them.

[Nystagmite]

That's ridiculous! Surely, your IBS is just as important as any other disability you may have?

 

I've had quite a few problems with DLA & IBS. At one tribunal, they said wear nappies - they couldn't tell me how, as someone with sight impairment who struggles to wipe their own bum, how nappies are going to help, and was told to use wet wipes - I already do that and it makes very little difference.

[estellyn]

That's ridiculous! Surely, your IBS is just as important as any other disability you may have?

 

I've had quite a few problems with DLA & IBS. At one tribunal, they said wear nappies - they couldn't tell me how, as someone with sight impairment who struggles to wipe their own bum, how nappies are going to help, and was told to use wet wipes - I already do that and it makes very little difference.

 

also if you can't clean properly, then the acidic nature of the diarrhea can cause sores, skin breakdown, infection. Not good.

 

Also severe IBS symptoms can be just as bad as crohn's symptoms - it just doesn't lead to surgery.

[ashmk]

Curious to know how you cured yourself.

 

I'll pm you, we can chat about IBS... Not really for the general public

[Nystagmite]

I'll pm you, we can chat about IBS... Not really for the general public

 

Something I'm interested in too.

[abc123def]

and me

[Nystagmite]

Better off posting it I think.

[honeybee13]

Guys, if you want a discussion thread, you could consider putting it somewhere like the Bear Garden.

 

My best, HB