Is the bank taking your Benefits ?

[johnwilsonstorey]

Dont be taken in by the apologetic letter. All they are doing is using it as delaying tactics.

If it was them asking you for money they would set down time limits, set yours to them and stick to them. Remember they are in the wrong, not you. Dont be worried about threatining them and dont forget the interest.

[surprise]

I have just posted a letter to Lloyds and said that They had a further 7 days and the only reason I had allowed this was because the FSO had only been notified of the complaint on 12th April and I was giving them time to respond. I realised afterwards that this letter was a reply to the first letter to Penny Berryman on 10th April. The letter to Penny Berryman of 12th April crossed with this letter from Lloyds dated 12th April. The one sent on 12th April was even more detrimental to Lloyds. I think I may get another letter tomorrow.

[1234debt]

Again, with your own thread, any details like 'POC' etc cnan be advised directly on your own thread.

"Together we'll crack 'em"

 

 

I'd greatly appreciate it if you could help with a new thread, I wouldn't want to break any rules.

I bank with Alliance & Leicester. I'm not sure what a 'POC' is I'm afraid.

 

Sorry to be a pain! I really do appreciate all the help!

[Perseus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=47

 

Hi 1234,

The link above will take you directly to the Alliance and Leicester section on the main CAG Bank Charges forum.

 

Just enter your own thread title (ie 1234 vs A&L) or something...

Enter the brief history of your case, the communications you've had and where you are with the claim now.

Any questions, ask away on that thread - you'll get specific help to the company you're dealing with from members used to their ways...

 

The POC I stated, is the Particulars of Claim. This is the information requested when you fill in the N1 form through the courts.

In it, you state who the claim is against, why, what for, how you're claiming and how much, and why etc...

Again, if you need help with the N1, ask away.

 

Hope this helps,

 

perseus

 

P.s. you're not being a pain, thatss why this forum exists...self help, and helping others.

 

You'll be fine!

[surprise]

Update - letter from MP. "Thank you for your letter dated 3rd April regarding charges by Lloyds Bank. I am very concerned about this and fortunately I am seeing the local Lloyds Bank in the near future and I will raise this with them". Just waiting to hear from FOS now.

[Perseus]

Nice one surprise...

Remeber tho, keep to your timescale as well.

If the FOS send a reply in 2 weeks, it can be used as support, rather than waiting... could take longer than you want.

 

P

[1234debt]

hi, I don't need help with my N1 anymore as my mum has very kindly offered to pay for me to use the money claim site!

 

I'd still really appreciate any ideas on what to say in a letter to my bank regarding the unpaid over drawn charges. Maybe I should just pay them and avoid the whole debt collector thing? :-?

[Perseus]

1234 - hold tight.

I'm going to get some others to look in on this thread, and advise re a letter.

 

It really would be best to start your own thread asap.

That way we can handle each members case in their own section.

 

Please let me know when you've done that, and I'll ask a Moderator to move your posts over. Then we can get cracking ok!

 

p

[amber2508]

Hello all

I am about to send my prelim letter and spreadsheet off and was going to send this letter off, (see below). I just thought it might give me a better chance of getting my benefits back without ending up using the legal route? I was wondering if somebody could please take a look at it for me, (grammar and letter construction not my strong point:oops:) to check for correct wording, layout, grammar etc. I keep reading it but just feel that something isn't right with it, namely the first paragraph?

 

The letter is a mixture of my own words and some of the other letters on this thread. Feel free to change/edit it or tell me if it needs changing.

 

Also could somebody help me with where in my letter i could add the Right of Appropriation template bit, that's at the beginning of the thread. I just don't know where i can work it into my letter. God i'm rubbish.

 

Any help much appreciated...

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Aside from my preliminary letter, (enclosed) for claiming back the past six years penalty charges on my account, I feel I must also bring it to you attention that from January 06 to present all of the penalty charges imposed on me have been taken purely from my benefits, as this is the only means of income I have had paid into my account during this time. The benefit in question is Disability living allowance.

This benefit is received from the Department of Works and Pensions and such payments are clearly marked as originating from the DWP.

 

It is illegal for you to appropriate such benefits, and as such I am requesting an immediate refund of these charges. The taking of my benefit has left me without the facility to pay for appropriate care for my disability, bills, utilities and food - the precise reason for these payments by the government. (Please see below for SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATIONS ACT 1992).

 

Regarding the illegality of taking benefits. It is a matter of public record that there has been correspondence between the Secretary of State and the British Bankers Association chief executive regarding this matter.

 

SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATIONS ACT 1992

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b) any income-related benefit; or

© child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

 

[Perseus]

Hello all

I am about to send my prelim letter and spreadsheet off and was going to send this letter off, (see below). I just thought it might give me a better chance of getting my benefits back without ending up using the legal route? I was wondering if somebody could please take a look at it for me, (grammar and letter construction not my strong point:oops:) to check for correct wording, layout, grammar etc. I keep reading it but just feel that something isn't right with it, namely the first paragraph?

 

The letter is a mixture of my own words and some of the other letters on this thread. Feel free to change/edit it or tell me if it needs changing.

 

Also could somebody help me with where in my letter i could add the Right of Appropriation template bit, that's at the beginning of the thread. I just don't know where i can work it into my letter. God i'm rubbish. No you're not!

 

Any help much appreciated...

I hope you don't mind....

 

 

Dear Bank Manager of local branch.

 

I must bring to your attention that from January 2006, the only source of income paid into my account numbered above, is Disability Living Allowance, paid by the Department of Works and Pensions every 28 days.

I have obtained information that a number of penalty charges have been applied to my account over the last 6 years or so, and have continued to be deducted from the above account from my DLA payments.

The appropriation of these benefits is in contravention to the Social Security Administrations Act 1992 section 187 (as detailed below), and such payments are clearly marked as originating from the DWP along with my national insurance number.

 

As it is unlawful for you to appropriate such benefits in order to deduct your penalty charges to my account, I am requesting an immediate refund of all charges from January 2006 to date. The taking of my benefit has left me without the facility to pay for appropriate care for my disability, bills, utilities and food - the precise reason for these payments by the government.

 

With regard to the unlawful appropriation of benefits. It is a matter of public record that there has been correspondence between the Secretary of State and the British Bankers Association chief executive regarding this matter. I enclose copies of correspondence in support of my request.

If a refund of all charges is not actioned within/by close of business 5 (five) days after receipt of this letter, I will pursue a County Court claim for their return, inform the Dept of Work and Pensions that my benefits continue to be mis-appropriated by you, and will contact my local Trading Standards, and newspaper to see if they would be interested in such an abuse of your fiduciary position.

I also enclose a letter 'Right of Appropriation' in accordance with the act below, along with my request for the return of previous, unlawfully applied penalty charges.

I look forward to your urgent response,

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ms Amber...

 

 

SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATIONS ACT 1992

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b) any income-related benefit; or

© child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits-5.html#post522407

This will also give you a link to the post that contains letters to and from the British Bankers Assosciation about this.

You could print out and include these to "refresh their memory".

Print out the right of appropriation letter as follows too as a separate letter.

 

RIGHT OF APPROPRIATION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

I am writing to inform you that I am due to have a Disability Living Allowance payment of £xxx paid into my account on xx/xx/xx, and I wish to use my first right of appropriation for this money, for the following purposes;

Rent £xx

Utilities bills £xx

Housekeeping money £xx

I will withdraw the money on the day that it is deposited for the above use, and I would be grateful if you would ensure that any other payments out of my account do not interfere with this withdrawal.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[signature]

 

[print name)

 

And finally.... enclose your prelim letter for the return of all charges, with a not that they include post jan06 info (which will be removed on their refund as above).

 

Sorry for a long reply, hope it all makes sense?

 

All the best

Perseus

(Hope you don't mind the re-word!)

[amber2508]

Awwwww! thank you so so much Perseus, i really appreciate what you have done for me and the work you have put in for me. Your letter looks proper posherer than mine. I will get it sent off asap, with all the other stuff you mention printed off too.

 

I just hope they don't get confused and not pay me the other charges from 2001 to 2006. I realise i can't ask them for the benefits back from that period, as i was receiving my salary, (unemployed now) and DLA for some of that time. That is why i had use the prelim approach for those charges.

 

Again thank you, your a gem.

 

Amber

[amber2508]

Hi Perseus, it's me again.

 

Would i not be better to keep the time-scale the same as the one for my prelim letter for the other pre 06 charges, rather than 5 days before court action as you suggest? Only i just thought it might make it less confusing for the bank when dealing with my request. Also it might make them think, "Oh buggar it, we'll just give her the lot back in one go to save hassle of seperating the 2". I can dream can't i lol? Wouldn't i also need to go to LBA stage before i can take court action on the benefits part?

 

Also i am not too sure about Newspapers bit at this point, or do u still think i should mention it? I don't want to appear too shirty you see, it's not in my nature.

 

Thank you,

 

Amber

[Perseus]

Ok, maybe I just wanna be a peoples champion and go round bashing companies heads when they rip the a**e out of their customers.

 

You prelim letter is your first warning (as well as a first official request for repayment).

You ask for the the refund , and normally give 14 days notice, warning of court action if no response.

The LBA Letter Before Action is "ok , you're testing my patience now, I really do mean it, pay up in this last 14 days, or I'm off to court..."

 

The urgency of benefit charges refund is that they are immediately and undisputedly refundable. It's clear in law they are not allowed to do that, and your other print outs, confirm the letters sent to and from the BBA etc agreeing this.

I think it is valid to keep the 5 day timescale on them, as it can be handled at branch level. The other charges involve an element of ' well the charges are legal, transparent T&C's, etc, we'll defend that if we can.'

Thats why the 40 days for a SAR, 14 days for prelim and LBA's etc.

 

The choice is yours. Those benefit refunds should be and can be done very quickly by the branch manager. There's no reason why (and why should you) wait any longer than absolutely necessary for them.

 

Newspapers....up to you...just ranting a bit for you I think...maybe it's an option to be followed up if they take too long for the refund!

 

All the best

 

pers

[JOSH_IOU]

HSBC dose not acknowledge that right.

 

Can you help?

[Perseus]

hi James

have you sent the right of appropriation letter, and/or sorted a parachute account or diverted your benefit payments yet?

 

Are you talking about the ssa1992 and right of appropriation?

 

If the local branch manager is presented with a copy of the wording of s187 of the act, and copies of the letters as above to and from patricia hewitt and the bba, and still does not agree, then maybe you would receive support from:-

 

The agency thats pays your benefit, ie DWP/DSS/etc

Office of Fair Trading local officer-they may not take individual action but will compile a report and file, in case of any other complainants.

Local CAB office - they may assist/call on your behalf

Local MP

Financial Ombudsman Service - make a call, don't wait for response to an email or a letter.

County Court - sometimes they will only listen to a legal order.

File a claim using the N1 form, for breach under s187, keep any copies of correspondence to and from, including as many details of any face-to-face visits or telephone calls.

 

You can get them to acknowledge this, it just takes some resolve, and being prepared to fight for it. All the time they don't acknowledge the regulations, they keep your money. When thats threatened , they'll sit up and take note.

 

 

Pers.

[JonCris]

HSBC dose not acknowledge that right.

 

Can you help?

 

Of course they don't but then they believe their penalty charges to be "fair & reasonable"

[TideTurner]

Of course they don't but then they believe their penalty charges to be "fair & reasonable"

 

JC, they believe what the higher management tell them, and are told to how to react on the phone.

 

This is designed to minimise on their loss (90% of people will accept what they say - even now).

 

There is also the element who are unaware of their rights, and the element who are intimidated on unable to fight back.

 

The Ministers and Departments responsible for ensuring that benefits are made to the right areas, are also responsible for ensuring that those benefits are delivered to the needy.

 

If they are being intercepted by large Corporates, albeit banks, despite the relevant legislation having been put in place to protect the beneficiary, WHO THE HELL IN AUTHORITY IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?

 

If you have incurred charges when you are on benefits, you should automatically bring this to the attention of those responsible for delivery, and your MP.

 

Your MP will have constituents who will be surviving on less money than that identified as the minimum by the DWP.

 

Also, the Banks are fully aware that what they are doing is illegal YET THEY CONTINUE TO DO IT IN THE NAME OF PROFIT.

 

What protection is being provided here for the needy?

 

Tide

[JonCris]

Whilst I agree with most of your post I can't agree with your statement that they believe what the higher management tell them, and are told to how to react on the phone.

 

It may be how they react when faced with a customer. but unless they have been living under a rock for some considerable time they most know that what they are being ordered to say is complete & utter 'rollocks'

 

Some of the complete tosh that I have heard spoken by bank staff has been unbelievable & has caused me to ask them "do you actualy believe what your saying" & it isn't just bank charges.

 

I know of probate lawyers being told by bank staff, despite providing a death certificate, that they can't give out any information about the deceased because of the DPA.

 

I can only assume the people they are now employing have little education & are poorly paid or just plain thick

[TideTurner]

Whilst I agree with most of your post I can't agree with your statement that they believe what the higher management tell them, and are told to how to react on the phone.

 

It may be how they react when faced with a customer. but unless they have been living under a rock for some considerable time they most know that what they are being ordered to say is complete & utter 'rollocks'

 

Some of the complete tosh that I have heard spoken by bank staff has been unbelievable & has caused me to ask them "do you actualy believe what your saying" & it isn't just bank charges.

 

I know of probate lawyers being told by bank staff, despite providing a death certificate, that they can't give out any information about the deceased because of the DPA.

 

I can only assume the people they are now employing have little education & are poorly paid or just plain thick

 

JC,

 

We're dealing with call centres here. They say what they're told to say whether they have their own opinion or not.

 

They aren't thick, and know what they are doing, but they are under instruction, and have strict targets to meet. All calls are recorded, and they are made fully aware of this.

 

They do as they're told. This comes from higher management.

 

An example is the provision of personal information for the last 6 years after a SAR, despite the Law showing otherwise.

 

Tide

[JonCris]

Then they should pack it in.

 

I can't understand for the life of me how they can, even to earn a crust, tell what they must know are blatant lies to their follow citizens who they also know are suffering considerable hardship (& in some cases death by suicide) because of their employers greed.

 

It's a bit like "I voz only vollowing orders mein herr"

[Perseus]

I think the section in the Whistleblower programme, where the sales staff were following scripted procedures, and shown how to apologise/back down if challenged.

If they (banks) are taking on 17/18/19 year olds that are hoping for a career in banking, those 'youngsters' will not jeopardise their hopes on breaking ranks or not following instructions.

All call centre staff nowadays are linked to a supervisor 'monitor' station.

Supervisors/team leaders will ghost or listen in to their calls, flag up a 'divert caller to me' message on screens when the customer overwhelms the staff member, and in some cases ARE wrist slapped when they have given in or conceded to the customers 1st/2nd complaint (known as cost returns).

 

Imoral - yes, unethical - yes, understandable - maybe when your job depends on it (unfortunately), right - most definately not!

 

P

[surprise]

I'm back and a little bemused at the level of intelligence of Lloyds. I gave them till today to come up with a settlement and I received a letter, 4th one of its kind, to say "how sorry they are to learn that you're unhappy with us" I would like to use something a little stronger but would get sensored. They enclsoed their usual leaflet, if anyone needs one I now have 3. They have again moved the goalpost they want 28 days now. I wrote a letter to Penny Berryman, expressing my concern regarding the shambles of dealing with this case, and I enclosed a revised list of charges adding the 8% and I shall now press through the courts.

These are the communications I have had off Lloyds which I listed in my letter to Penny Berryman

Kerry Parfitt, Andover, 14th March 07 – 2 weeks to investigate

Jason Farren, Brindley Place, 22nd March 07 – 28 days to investigate

Andy Griffin, 28th March 07 – Fob off letter – basically get lost

Nahshon Mcpherson, Brindley Place, 12 April 07 – 2 weeks

Sylvia Smith, Brindley Place, 20th April 07 – 28 Days

I shall probably be shouting for help with the N1 form tomorrow.

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Don't mess around anymore & oh! claim the contractual rate not just the 8%

[surprise]

Update: Clap hands: Lloyds have agreed to refund charges in full. All those on benefits should contact their MP, I am sure that this result is of a visit to Lloyds from him.

 

Thanks for all the help and just hope everyone else gets the same result.

[archer_66]

well im at the stage in court that ive done my AQ but since i filed my N1 into court the middle of march the bank have taken at least 400 pound off me again! ive emailed them telling them that theyre taking my benefit and its illegal ,they returned 2 payments and refused to do any more.this week alone theyre prob going to take £150 i have no money in thebank its overdrawn and when my benefits go in saturday it wont even clear my overdraft! im worried sick.im going to send them the letter about appropriation etc but its too late for this weekend.im not sure how they can live with themselves!never thought about MP though is there a way to email him?