Eviction for Benefit Fraud. Please Help.

[inn0cence]

Sorry but what is OP?

[joeblogs]

Original poster

[honeybee13]

Original poster

 

Or original post, I think.

 

HB

[Lillibelle]

I shall retire gracefully from this thread so as not to add to any furthur confusion by asking the same question 3 times with no answer..I wish you luck

 

 

L

[inn0cence]

Sorry.

Damn iPhone buttons are too small.

Edited September 12, 2012 by inn0cence

[inn0cence]

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply.

 

Thanks id6052 for your insight.

You have it pretty much sewn up.

The part about the HB claim is spot on.

Why the LA is tending to mess my friend about is beyond me. She has given them everything they have asked for.

The bit about how much evidence the BFraud ppl have. My friend is absolutely adamant that they dont have any evidence.

I don't know what to think. Maybe they don't have evidence that's why they are trying to mess her about for a bit. Till the appeal. I don't know anymore.

 

Why have they sent balifs to collect CT money when The case has not even been to the tribunal? Or courts I can't understand.

 

@45002. He was at her house for 5/6 nights at a time when she was in hospital for operations. She had these operations over a few years. He was only staying during ops.

 

@mariner51.

I have noted what you have posted. I shall do that in future.

 

@Lillibelle.

He doesn't have his belongings at her house, other than lawnmower, and some gardening tools and some junk in the shed.

Yes they are asking for return payment of HB and income support. They keep writing and telling her to start a payment plan to repay it. they haven't pushed this to balifs yet.

Her recent claim for HB did not get refused. They are asking for more proof. And now they say it could take up to 4 wks to process. (3 wks left now)

 

@ Lillibelle.

you have been very helpful in the past. I would appreciate it if you still kept an eye on this thread please.

I was at work the other day and real busy. It was mad and every time I replied to a post Someone else, went back and asked the same question. I felt like I was taking 1 step forward and 3 steps backward. It was my fault for making another thread. I know that now. Lesson learned.

 

Update: have spoken to shelter and have been advised not to open door to anyone and have appointment with them next week.

 

Now just waiting on housing benefit process.

Im going crazy. Wonder what she is going through.

Sometimes I wish I never got involved. I feel like walking away.

But I don't think I could live with that.

Shelter say my friends case looks good.

We shall find out.

[45002]

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply.

 

 

 

@45002. He was at her house for 5/6 nights at a time when she was in hospital for operations. She had these operations over a few years. He was only staying during ops.

 

 

From what you posted so far the council Do have some kind of evidence !

 

But what is that evidence ?

 

Maybe a close friend or relative upset about something have been contacting the council or even the father of her children has been doing the dirt on her ?

 

The Neighbours may having been reporting to fraud department some else living with her or even where your friend lives has been under surveillance by fraud department,these things have been know to happen !

[Lillibelle]

Her claim this time may well be valid,,,it does seem to be taking a long time tho,,my own LA move quicker than that in urgent cases,especially with eviction looming,,and there is no guarantee that the LA won't still press for eviction even if she does get the claim through.( I may be wrong there,I'm happy to be corrected)

I got frustrated with you because it simply does not make sense,and when it doesn't make sense it normally means it's not completely true.you may be being misled too.

 

If she is being asked for refunds of ctax/hb AND IS for 5/6 years she is up the creek cos thats going to be a massive amount of money and I would imagine they have pretty rock solid proof that the claims weren't valid. As I said earlier,,it's not down to them to prove he did live there (they already know) it's she that has to prove he didn't and speaking from the fence...I think he probably did,,maybe not consistently,but by your own words,he stayed there for long periods and she should have declared iit. I'm glad she went to Shelter as I would advise her to have alternative accomodation lined up if the eviction goes ahead,If she does get benefits back bear in mind how much she is going to have taken off her for the repayments..Also,why hasn't she received ANY mail re the ctax? She would have been notified of the investigation,,the LO hearing,,the final warnings etcetc before the bailiff was involved.

She needs to get all her ducks lined up as it were and start dealing with these issues,,making sure she has a translator with her as you say her English is poor,it's not a good enpugh defence to say she doesn't understand whats going on,there are plenty of multi lingual people available for cases such as these.

[Lillibelle]

From what you posted so far the council Do have some kind of evidence !

 

But what is that evidence ?

 

Maybe a close friend or relative upset about something have been contacting the council or even the father of her children has been doing the dirt on her ?

 

The Neighbours may having been reporting to fraud department some else living with her or even where your friend lives has been under surveillance by fraud department,these things have been know to happen !

 

My thoughts exactly 45002,,seen plenty of programmes on TV where benefit fraud depts film people suspected of fraud..If Mr A thinks Mr B is getting something he shouldn't be,,he won't think twice of dobbing him in..I get the impression,,considering the 5/6 years of benefits they want back,that she has been watched/checked on for quite a while because the LA seem pretty sure of their facts. The 'no fixed abode' doesn't seem right and certainly doesn't help her case..he wasn't NFA for the 9 years before starting a business? Does he live at the business address? If not,,where? She has a lot of explaining to do methinks..

Edited September 12, 2012 by Lillibelle

[inn0cence]

During the interview she was asked when did her ex start visiting the kids again. She repiled that it was about 5/6 years ago during the time of her first operation.

 

Sounds like BFraud put 2 + 2 together and got 5.

 

I don't find it feasible for BFraud to investigate for 5 years and not do anything about it. I think they just accuse for 5 yrs because that's when her ex's letters came to the house.

Edited September 12, 2012 by inn0cence

[Lea_HTH]

If your friend has had benefits in excess of £15-20K upwards that she was not entitled to, she's looking at a probable prison sentence, so really, she needs legal advice immediately.

[inn0cence]

If your friend has had benefits in excess of £15-20K upwards that she was not entitled to, she's looking at a probable prison sentence, so really, she needs legal advice immediately.

 

Shelter are helping her now.

[Lea_HTH]

That's not legal advice.

 

She needs a criminal solicitor, preferably one who specialises in benefit fraud.

[45002]

My thoughts exactly 45002,,seen plenty of programmes on TV where benefit fraud depts film people suspected of fraud..If Mr A thinks Mr B is getting something he shouldn't be,,he won't think twice of dobbing him in..I get the impression,,considering the 5/6 years of benefits they want back,that she has been watched/checked on for quite a while because the LA seem pretty sure of their facts. The 'no fixed abode' doesn't seem right and certainly doesn't help her case..he wasn't NFA for the 9 years before starting a business? Does he live at the business address? If not,,where? She has a lot of explaining to do methinks..

 

My thoughts as well.

 

During the interview she was asked when did her ex start visiting the kids again. She replied that it was about 5/6 years ago during the time of her first operation.

 

Sounds like BFraud put 2 + 2 together and got 5.

 

I don't find it feasible for BFraud to investigate for 5 years and not do anything about it. I think they just accuse for 5 yrs because that's when her ex's letters came to the house.

 

Unless I missed something in your thread,are you saying now your Friend has already had a "IUC" Interview under caution ?

 

This sounds even more serious now

 

Yes your right 5 year investigation does sound a bit long,but they have been investigating from what you posted so far

 

That's not legal advice.

 

She needs a criminal solicitor, preferably one who specialises in benefit fraud.

 

 

Good Advice Lea_HTH

[inn0cence]

That's not legal advice.

 

She needs a criminal solicitor, preferably one who specialises in benefit fraud.

she has one, that also speaks the same language as her. He was at the IUC with her. he is the one that has done her appeals.

but he doesn't do cival court.

[antone]

she has one, that also speaks the same language as her. He was at the IUC with her. he is the one that has done her appeals.

but he doesn't do cival court.

 

The eviction/repossession issue is a civil matter, but if she's being prosecuted for benefit fraud that's criminal, not civil.

[inn0cence]

45002 WROTE:

Unless I missed something in your thread,are you saying now your Friend has already had a "IUC" Interview under caution ?

 

This sounds even more serious now

 

Yes your right 5 year investigation does sound a bit long,but they have been investigating from what you posted so far

 

sorry i thought you guys would know that. because we have talked about appeals and stuff. you only get to the appeal hearing after IUC.

 

 

NEWS:

just found out her ex had bank statements at her house from early 2007 to mid 2010.

that is 3 yrs. benefit fraud want to know from 2005 to present.

very strange.

[inn0cence]

The eviction/repossession issue is a civil matter, but if she's being prosecuted for benefit fraud that's criminal, not civil.

 

yeah thanks.

got that.

her solicitor will deal with tribuneral appeals and the going to court and stuff. but he doesnt do civil, which is where the rent got dealt with.

[estellyn]

Actually, what your friend needs most right now is an experienced benefit adviser to take over the case going to Tribunal. This adviser could then try and get the case heard urgently, and were it me I would make the request for a revision of the new claim into an appeal request and try to get both heard at the same time, since they deal with the same matter - when and when not the ex was living at her house and whether he is currently living there.

 

Everything will hinge on the appeals, so getting help with this along with help from shelter should be a priority. She needs the urgent hearing on both claims, and she needs to be putting together evidence for the time period in question that ex wasn't living there, and explanation (ie hospital stay) for the times he stayed there. How co-operative is the ex? Is he willing to provide information about where he was staying during the time periods, and documents proving his address now? If he stayed with people, are they willing to provide statements confirming he was staying there? When she gets the appeal pack through she will need to go through the evidence with the benefit adviser, and have a reasonable explanation for everything.

 

The difficulty will be for any periods where he was 'no fixed abode' or couldn't prove where he was staying - the absence of any evidence of the ex living elsewhere, will be considered sufficient to show he was living with her.

 

She needs a benefit adviser experienced in appeals, preferably LTAHAW appeals. Successfully showing that the ex doesn't currently live with her is the only way of keeping her home. Successfully proving at appeal that the ex wasn't living with her during the time periods in question may well be the only way of avoiding prosecution. A criminal solicitor can be found later if charges are brought (assuming they haven't been, if they have then she ALSO needs a criminal solicitor).

 

An interpreter can be provided by welfare rights organisations and law centres for the appts.

[Lea_HTH]

You seem to have missed out in earlier posts that she was already interviewed under caution and that she had a solicitor, and that she'd already gone through the appeals process...maybe you did mention that, I can't be bothered to re-read 9 pages of posts to find out. Nonetheless, I had already gathered, as I believe most others posting here, that the story was not a full story. Really, your 'friend' is in very deep trouble, and if convicted is likely to get a prison sentence as I cannot imagine the fraudulently claimed benefits over a 6 year period are less than 20k.

 

Shelter can assist with the housing issue - but further to my earlier response (a few days back), it is highly unlikely she will get her housing benefit reinstated this far along in the prosecution process - I believe I did say that giving accurate information would elicit accurate assistance. Her benefits are likely to have been suspended, rather than merely cancelled, which makes a material difference. If found innocent, then all her back payments will be re-instated, however in the interim, it is likely that only small payments will be made to her, if anything at all, and if convicted then the HB won't be paid and she'll be evicted. She won't be homeless however, as I said she'll likely go to prison. And if her partner was complicit in the fraud, he'll be investigated and prosecuted too - which may explain his evasiveness.

 

The court may wait until the process is over before evicting.

 

Sorry, but there is no way to sugar-coat this information - benefit fraud is serious, and if she's been interviewed under caution and been through the appeals process she KNOWS what evidence they have against her as at some point they would have revealed as much - hence getting her admittance that he was there sometimes for 5/6 years. If there was no evidence as you have stated on several occasions, then this investigation would have ended some point after the first interview. You may not be being given the whole story - and if you are, then you are not giving it to us here - but most of us aren't foolish enough to not be able to read between the lines.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Lea_HTH
Added info re partner.

[estellyn]

yeah thanks.

got that.

her solicitor will deal with tribuneral appeals and the going to court and stuff. but he doesnt do civil, which is where the rent got dealt with.

 

If the solictor hasn't already requested an urgent appeal, advised appealing the recent HB claim decision and started trying to get evidence showing the ex was living elsewhere, then he doesn't know enough about benefits to take this case to tribunal.

[Lea_HTH]

Actually, what your friend needs most right now is an experienced benefit adviser to take over the case going to Tribunal. This adviser could then try and get the case heard urgently, and were it me I would make the request for a revision of the new claim into an appeal request and try to get both heard at the same time, since they deal with the same matter - when and when not the ex was living at her house and whether he is currently living there.

 

OP said the appeals have been 'done'.

[Lea_HTH]

yeah thanks.

got that.

her solicitor will deal with tribuneral appeals and the going to court and stuff. but he doesnt do civil, which is where the rent got dealt with.

 

Again, you seem to be posting different information - in post 166 you state the solicitor 'has done the appeals', that's past tense. In this post you say 'will deal'.

 

Which is it?

[inn0cence]

@ Lea_HTH please read this.

 

45002 WROTE:

Unless I missed something in your thread,are you saying now your Friend has already had a "IUC" Interview under caution ?

 

This sounds even more serious now

 

Yes your right 5 year investigation does sound a bit long,but they have been investigating from what you posted so far

sorry i thought you guys would know that. because we have talked about appeals and stuff. you only get to the appeal hearing after IUC.

[Lillibelle]

Sorry inn0cence,,I had no idea she had an IUC,,I was under the 'clearly wrong' impression she had toddled to the eviction hearing and the Judge had re set for 8 weeks,and that she had not understood anything because of the language barrier,,,I have to give way to the more knowledgeable folks on here,this is serious stuff and I would be wrong to even try and advise you furthur except to say I wish her luck cos ,from what you have said,she is in serious serious trouble and I don't think ignorance of the benefit system and language issues are a good enough defence.