Caught using someone else's Freedom pass, convicted - leave to appeal granted

[Stigy]

Crown Court's a scary place, full of bad, bad people....All of whom are not guilty....I posted in your other thread.

[iambilly]

I'm sure that we all remember you Billy,

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, you were found to be using someone else's Freedom Pass to which you were not entitled and the Magistrates Court found you guilty of attempted fare evasion.

 

As you say that you have now been granted leave to appeal, are you appealing the conviction or sentence or both?

 

I'm sure we will all be keen to see the outcome. What date is your appeal hearing set for mention?

 

We'll all be watching your posts with interest.

 

Yeah that was me with my sister's freedom pass.

 

I am appealing both as I stupidly pleaded guilty when I wasn't.

 

Thanks will keep you posted

[iambilly]

Not sure I recall you, Bill.

 

I'd be interested to see what grounds you are appealing under...How did you mistakingly use somebody else's Freedom Pass?

 

I'm by no means an expert in appeals, although I've attended one or two at Crown Court, but the fact that you've been granted one, is your right, as opposed to the court looking at your case favourably?

 

On the plus side, one of the ones I was witness in did have the sentence nye on quashed....I guess Crown Courts are more for rapists and murderers and they see fare evasion as somewhat trivial?

 

I sent a full A4 letter with my appeal form saying how I was naive and stupid and it has been the worse 6 months of my life which is all true.

 

Oh really? I was given the impression they they had the power the decide whether my appeal is granted or not?

 

Is the crown court that serious? Is it like the highest one then?

[BazzaS]

Hi guys

 

Hopefully you remember me, I used a freedom pass by mistake and pleaded guilty when I wasn't.

 

As a result I received a criminal conviction

 

However, I told you guys that I would send off an appeal, anyway my appeal got accepted and now I have to go to a crown court and the start of September

 

Any advice would be great

 

Thanks

 

(sorry posted this thread thing twice, I realised the tittle was wrong on my old thread)

 

Your appeal hasn't been granted : your leave to appeal has been.

 

As OCJ has asked : are you appealing the conviction or just the sentence?

 

Is your barrister friend representing you?

[iambilly]

Please delete this thread.

 

Or post your replies to my other thread

 

this one is not is use

 

thanks

[iambilly]

Your appeal hasn't been granted : your leave to appeal has been.

 

As OCJ has asked : are you appealing the conviction or just the sentence?

 

Is your barrister friend representing you?

 

Sorry what is leave to appeal?

 

My court date is 6th of Septmeber

 

I am appeal both.

 

I am having a meeting with the barrister, hopefully he can.

[BazzaS]

I sent a full A4 letter with my appeal form saying how I was naive and stupid and it has been the worse 6 months of my life which is all true.

 

Oh really? I was given the impression they they had the power the decide whether my appeal is granted or not?

 

Is the crown court that serious? Is it like the highest one then?

 

If you don't know the seriousness of a Crown Court appeal, one wonders at the depth of the advIce you have taken from your barrister friend +\- other legal advisors.

 

The Crown Court Is serious. It's not the highest criminal court in the land (it is inferior to the High Court, the Court of Appeal, and to the Supreme Court), but if you have to ask "is it serious"?

a) are you serious?

b) why did you not seek an answer to that question before appealing.

 

Either you are trolling, or you are treating this issue like a joke. I don't know which is worse.

 

I'm not keen to say "no one help him".

I do suggest others read his previous thread and posts before deciding how much time to devote, and if he knows what his grounds for appeal are, or is looking here for "loopholes" or "what to say "

Edited August 17, 2012 by BazzaS

[iambilly]

Oh so I can go to the court of appeal if this fails?

 

I am not in constant contact with him he is often abroad, I am meeting him next week.

 

I know it is serious, this has ruin my life pretty much, I can upload the letter I wrote for my appeal if people are interested and think it might help.

[BazzaS]

Oh so I can go to the court of appeal if this fails?

 

I am not in constant contact with him he is often abroad, I am meeting him next week.

 

I know it is serious, this has ruin my life pretty much, I can upload the letter I wrote for my appeal if people are interested and think it might help.

 

Why not cut out the middle man, and go straight to the Supreme Court?.

 

No need to consider if an error (on a point of law) has been made, no need to follow due process, just nip along (you'll find their Lordships just across from the Houses of Parliament).

 

Don't forget to let them know how serious it is, given you are billy, and it's ruined your life.

 

Don't forget there is always the Human Rights angle, and the European courts : stress how inconvenienced you've been by the Railways actually expecting you to pay your fare.

 

Please take the above post with the same "pinch of salt" that I now take Billy's posts with.

[Stigy]

I sent a full A4 letter with my appeal form saying how I was naive and stupid and it has been the worse 6 months of my life which is all true.

 

Oh really? I was given the impression they they had the power the decide whether my appeal is granted or not?

 

Is the crown court that serious? Is it like the highest one then?

As has been said, not the highest court in the land. To be honest, EVERY court is serious in it's own right, and in my experience, not a place you want to end up in. Full Stop. I believe the Supreme is about as serious as a court gets, with regard to to appeals. Crown Court is the first step up the latter to appeal the Magistrates decision.

[dx100uk]

threads merged for history.

 

dx

Edited August 18, 2012 by citizenB

[honeybee13]

Hello again iambilly, nice to see you again.

 

How is your website?

 

My best, HB

Edited August 18, 2012 by citizenB

[citizenB]

billy, this thread is now reopened for posting and the title has amended to show the current situation.

[iambilly]

Hello again iambilly, nice to see you again.

 

How is your website?

 

My best, HB

 

Hi thanks

 

Yeah it is in progress I think I better wait till my appeal hearing thing first.

[iambilly]

As has been said, not the highest court in the land. To be honest, EVERY court is serious in it's own right, and in my experience, not a place you want to end up in. Full Stop. I believe the Supreme is about as serious as a court gets, with regard to to appeals. Crown Court is the first step up the latter to appeal the Magistrates decision.

 

Oh right thanks for the information. Hopefully it won't need to go any further.

[firstclassx]

I think some aspects of Browning v Floyd (1946) are quite relevant here, (especially for a Judge to consider when dismissing the appeal).

 

(Edited for relevance)...

 

Basically Wife gives Husband her ticket, (which is obviously non-transferable as per the ticket conditions). He gets caught, found guilty at Magistrates' Court claiming because he alleged that he didn't intend to defraud, should be found not guilty. Found guilty, convicted. Subsequently appeals several times. Loses. Him guilty of 5(3a), Wife found guilty of aiding & abetting.

 

3 judges from the Kings Bench Division ruled:

 

"If a passenger is charged under the Regulation of Railways Act, 1889, with travelling on a railway without previously having paid his fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof, or under the railway company's bye-laws with using a partly used non-transferable passenger ticket or with transferring a partly used non-transferable ticket, it does not matter whether there was intent to defraud or not"....

 

"The husband was guilty of travelling on a railway without previously having paid his fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof, contrary to the Regulation of Railways Act, 1889, s.5(3)(a), and of using a partly used non-transferable passenger ticket, contrary to the railway company's bylaws; and the wife was guilty of aiding and abetting her husband to travel with intent to avoid payment of the fare, and of transferring a partly used non-transferable ticket to her husband, contrary to the same bylaws."

 

(Corbyn -v- Saunders also worth a flick through).

[iambilly]

I think some aspects of Browning v Floyd (1946) are quite relevant here, (especially for a Judge to consider when dismissing the appeal).

 

(Edited for relevance)...

 

Basically Wife gives Husband her ticket, (which is obviously non-transferable as per the ticket conditions). He gets caught, found guilty at Magistrates' Court claiming because he alleged that he didn't intend to defraud, should be found not guilty. Found guilty, convicted. Subsequently appeals several times. Loses. Him guilty of 5(3a), Wife found guilty of aiding & abetting.

 

3 judges from the Kings Bench Division ruled:

 

"If a passenger is charged under the Regulation of Railways Act, 1889, with travelling on a railway without previously having paid his fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof, or under the railway company's bye-laws with using a partly used non-transferable passenger ticket or with transferring a partly used non-transferable ticket, it does not matter whether there was intent to defraud or not"....

 

"The husband was guilty of travelling on a railway without previously having paid his fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof, contrary to the Regulation of Railways Act, 1889, s.5(3)(a), and of using a partly used non-transferable passenger ticket, contrary to the railway company's bylaws; and the wife was guilty of aiding and abetting her husband to travel with intent to avoid payment of the fare, and of transferring a partly used non-transferable ticket to her husband, contrary to the same bylaws."

 

(Corbyn -v- Saunders also worth a flick through).

 

 

Thanks

 

I don't quite understand however, So if you are charged with intent to avoid paying a fare but did not pay the fare by mistake, it doesn't matter?

 

That seems a little unfair, also couldn't find any information on both these cases.

 

I did find that "A single judge first decides whether the matter is fit to bring to the court (to filter out frivolous or unarguable cases) and if so the matter is allowed to go forward to a full judicial review hearing with one or more judges." from Wikipedia

 

Hopefully that means that my case appears to have a good enough reason to be allowed to appeal, so they must see that I have good points to put across.

[honeybee13]

I don't quite understand however, So if you are charged with intent to avoid paying a fare but did not pay the fare by mistake, it doesn't matter?

 

I'm confused too. Didn't you say you used someone else's Freedom Pass? I understood it wasn't by mistake so would think that could prove intent.

 

HB

[iambilly]

I did use someone else's freedom pass but by mistake.

 

I only pleaded guilty as I thought this would be the best chance at avoiding a criminal record and I now know that is not how it works.

[honeybee13]

I did use someone else's freedom pass but by mistake.

 

I only pleaded guilty as I thought this would be the best chance at avoiding a criminal record and I now know that is not how it works.

 

I haven't re-read all your posts as I don't have time, but early on in this thread, you said you 'decided to use' your sister's pass. That sounds like intent and not a mistake to me.

 

HB

[iambilly]

I haven't re-read all your posts as I don't have time, but early on in this thread, you said you 'decided to use' your sister's pass. That sounds like intent and not a mistake to me.

 

HB

 

Yeah I know I wrote that and that was a mistake. I wanted people's opinions on what happened if I decided to use the card vs the fact I used it by mistake

[honeybee13]

It sounds like mistakes all round then.....

 

HB

[iambilly]

Yeah but at least my appeal got accepted so hopefully I can argue my point

[sailor sam]

To be honest I don't know why this thread has been re-opened. 14 pages on and the OP still will not except he is in the wrong so it's a total waste of time continuing. I also don't have time to go thought the 270 odd posts but i'm sure that the OP stated that he 'decided' to use his sisters or mother's pass (which was also contradicted by the OP if my memory serves me correctly).

 

OP, you abused the system and got caught so you should take the consequences. Your information is not consistent so clearly your account is suspect to say the least which the court will no doubt see and decide accordingly.

[iambilly]

But I am not in the wrong, I made a mistake by saying I used it on purpose on here.

 

I'm sure people will be interested to see if my appeal gets rejected or accepted.