SJPN - TfL - I forgot to tap in and pay after pushing the person that I care for on to the bus.

[lilmizzp]

Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice letter today from TFL asking how do I plead.

I've already written a letter explaining my circumstances on the day and got a letter 2 months later saying thank you for my comments and now this. Not sure what to do next. I forgot to tap in and pay after pushing the person that I care for on to the bus.

pI have very little options now. Would be grateful if anyone could advise.

Thanks

[honeybee13]

Hi.

I've moved your thread to our Public Transport forum.

There's nothing to stop you writing again, it normally takes more than one letter to get an OOC settlement.

Could you show us what you sent last time, please? Leave your name off.

Also, could you scan up a pdf of the SJP notice without your name and address?

HB

 

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

dx

 

[lilmizzp]

 

 

Hi there, thanks for the reply back.

This is the first page of the SJP. (removed says nothing useful - dx)

I have never been through this before and gave an honest account of what happened on the day and what was said to me.

Unfortunately, I wasn't believed and my outcome has produced this so far.

Here is the letter that I sent to TfL after their 1st offence letter: 

I am writing in response to a letter that I recently received from TFL. I would like to take the opportunity to explain myself and my situation on the 21/09/23.

 

On the day I was providing care to an individual who needs the use of a wheelchair.

 

There was a heavy downpour of rain throughout the duration of us waiting for the bus to arrive at the unsheltered bus stop. When the bus finally came, I had to be very cautious to manoeuvre them in their wheelchair, as the rain continued to pour down on us, and on to the bus ramp.

 

Because of this I had to be extra careful not to slip and fall which can cause serious injury to myself and the person I was caring for. After pushing the individual, whilst in their wheelchair on to the bus, I then had to wheel and securely place them in the provided area properly as not doing so provided area properly as not doing so can cause injury to the person that I was caring for, others and myself, especially if the bus were to start moving.

 

Upon the ticket inspector boarding the bus and approaching me, I had remembered that I had forgotten to tap in. I immediately made it know to them of my situation and that I was a carer and was providing care to an individual on the bus. The ticket inspector then glanced over to the provided area and saw the person that I was caring for.

 

The ticket inspector had taken my details (ticket inspector had taken my details (getting my last name wrong in the process) and straight after said that I would receive a carers letter. I then rested in what he had said to me as I had told him the honest truth. However, I received no such letter, only the one that I am responding to.  

 

Due to the rainy weather conditions, a person in a wheelchair to care for and the late arrival of the bus, it became overwhelming. As a carer, it is imperative that I look after the person that I am caring for and to make sure that they are safe and looked after whenever they are in my care.

Whilst carrying out my carer duties and the inconvenience of the weather I had forgotten to tap in and pay on this occasion. I would like to be given the opportunity to pay the amount owed, it was an honest mistake.

On the day it was very stressful. If you can take all of this into consideration I would be grateful.

 

Kind Regards,

[honeybee13]

Hi.

I could be missing something but I can't see what offence you've been charged with. Is that somewhere else in the correspondence?

HB

[lilmizzp]

Hi, this is a page of the SJP offence that I got. 

Offence Big.pdf

[dx100uk]

you should be able to get an OOC 

use the email on the 1st TfL letter

apologiseand grovel for an OOC settlement.

its a one off mistake should be easy to get the OOC.

its because you showed no remorse just excuses for not paying/having a ticket.

they are not interested in prosecuting members of joe public that make silly one off mistakes.

the no comment would not have gone down too well!!

read threads here already

there are 100's of begging letters to base yours on.

 

[BazzaS]

It doesn’t affect what you are charged with but it may be affecting TfL’s response to your reply:

Is it correct you said “I don’t have anything on me” rather than you forgetting to touch in (but having a card on you…..)

So, what actually happened, what did you say, and why?

how does what happened fit with your explanation to TfL / content of your ‘grovelling letter’?

if what you write seems at great variance to the member of staff’s report : they are less likely to not prosecute / grant an OOC / administrative settlement.

[lilmizzp]

Hi, I understand what you are saying. The problem I'm having is that the ticket inspector has spoken against me with statements that are untrue. I'm unsure how to proceed. The inspector got my last name wrong and I have told TFL that all my other information is correct but not my surname. Is this something that I should talk about again, or should I continue down the route of apologising? Thanks

 

Dear Sir/Madam 

 

I would like to share that I have never been in trouble with the law before and I can ensure that I won’t be in the future. I understand that TFL services can only operate if everyone pays the costs of their journeys, which is why I apologise for my mistake. 

 

I have always been a law abiding citizen and have had no previous offences with TFL or any other authority. As previously explained I was caring for another individual at the time and had difficulty doing so on the day. I have always paid for my travel fares and I can assure you that I will continue to do so.

 

I am willing to make payment of unpaid fares and any fines that my actions have incurred. I appreciate the seriousness of this matter. I never intended to cause an offence. I had forgotten to tap in with my card, which I always carry to pay for my travel, additional medical supplies and anything else in case of an emergency. On the day it was difficult for me to manage at the time, while caring for someone who needs the use of a wheelchair due to their ongoing medical needs. 

 

Unfortunately, I suffered a great tragedy in my life this year which has lead me to seek support. I am currently undergoing more therapy for the sensitive nature of my case. Although it is hard for me to disclose, I have attached some of my attempts to seek help, in hopes that you can understand how much help and support means to me.

 

A prosecution would have an unfair and disproportionate impact on me, including my mental health and the progress that I have made towards it. While I understand the error of my actions, I would like the opportunity to make amends. I am also very worried that having a criminal offence on my record will have a detrimental impact on me as a carer. I hope that I have explained myself well and have provided enough evidence. If you need any further information from me to help you reach your decision please let me know. 

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

[BazzaS]

Doesn’t tell us what happened, nor tell TfL either.

you need to maximise the likelihood they’ll feel you are sorry and won’t repeat it, rather than leaving them with the impression that you are more sorry that you got caught (and have read what to say on the internet!)

[lilmizzp]

Hi BazzaS,

I forwarded my statement and I received a letter saying "thank you for your comments, they will be taken into consideration when making a decision".

Next I received a SJP which included the inspectors comments which were false.

This would be a follow up letter from the first one I sent.

How could I make it sound better.

I really am sorry for my mistake.

I've explained that a prosecution would be unfair and that I will continue to do better in the future.

Should I take out the personal trauma that I went through this year?

What else should I write?

Hi, can you please explain what OOC means?

Thanks

[dx100uk]

you need to read some like threads in this same forum you started yours in

Out Of Court settlement..............

[lilmizzp]

Hi, does this letter sound appropriate for me to send?

 

Dear Sir/Madam  

 

 

I would like to sincerely apologise for the time and administration costs that my actions have caused.

 

I understand that TFL services can only operate if everyone pays the costs of their journeys, which is why I apologise for my mistake. I understand the large scale of revenue losses that TFL faces as a result of fare evasion and how it is unacceptable. 

 

I have always been a law abiding citizen and have had no previous offences with TFL or any other authority. As previously explained I was caring for another individual at the time and had difficulty doing so on the day. I am extremely remorseful for my mistake. 

 

I appreciate the seriousness of this matter. I never intended to cause an offence. I am willing to make payment for my actions with the opportunity for an out of court settlement. A prosecution would have an unfair and disproportionate impact on my work, my family and myself, including my mental health if this matter were to escalate further to court.

 

I have always been on the right side of the law and have never had any kind of trouble, I can assure you that this will not happen again and I will make sure to pay before boarding the person that I am caring for on to the bus.

 

Again, I would like to express my sincerest apologies for the inconvenience caused. If possible, I would like to resolve this matter best without the need for any court action. If you could give me the opportunity to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs for dealing with this situation. I can only ask that you will consider my request to settle this matter out of court and avoid any further escalation.

 

 

yours sincerely,

[honeybee13]

Hi.

I think your letter still needs some work and as dx says, it's good to read what other people have written to get an idea of what to write.

I still don't understand what happened on the day and TfL are asking for your side of the story. And as Bazza said, we don't know how you were planning to pay your fare that day.

Whatever mistake you made, you need to apologise and sound as if you regret what you did. They will want to know that you've learned from this incident and will pay your fare in the future. You say you've taken steps to ensure this doesn't happen again but you haven't said what.

HB

 

 

[lilmizzp]

Hi,

I planned to pay with my debit card, which is what I always do.

As a step forward I could say that I am applying for an Oyster card?

I'm contemplating on whether to seek a solicitor.

I don't have long to make a plea. I'm trying to see what more I could do

I admitted that I hadn't tapped in a paid but was said to have refused to pay because I am a carer.

 I already gave my side of the story and TFL questioned the inspector who gave contradicting statements.

The thing that I haven't done enough of is apologise, which I am trying to do.

I've been reading other cases and taking notes of what can be said.

However, I'm finding it difficult.

Can you give any more hints on what more I could say?

[honeybee13]

35 minutes ago, lilmizzp said:

Hi, I planned to pay with my debit card, which is what I always do. As a step forward I could say that I am applying for an Oyster card? I'm contemplating on whether to seek a solicitor. I don't have long to make a plea. I'm trying to see what more I could do. I admitted that I hadn't tapped in a paid but was said to have refused to pay because I am a carer. I already gave my side of the story and TFL questioned the inspector who gave contradicting statements.

- So why didn't you pay that day? Tell them briefly why you didn't.

- It would look a lot better if you get an Oyster card and tell them the details, showing that

  you plan to pay the right fare in the future. Just saying you'll apply proves nothing.

Perhaps you could work that into your letter, then see what Bazza and dx think of the new draft. I also think that the letter sounds as if you've copied what other people have written. It needs to be in your own words and sound sincere.

Try not to repeat yourself as well, you talked twice about not being in trouble with the law.

Remember that TfL don't seem to settle after the first letter, you need to write again, maybe a third letter as well.

 HB

 

 

 

[lilmizzp]

I Just paid for an pay as you oyster card online an topped up. I will send them the confirmation in an attachment.

I explained to them that I had forgotten to tap in because I was having trouble getting the person that I care for on to the bus and how the weather made it worse for me when getting on.

I explained that I became reoccupied with my role because the person that I care for has a medical condition.

Edited December 15, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[honeybee13]

So does that alter what you think you might say in your letter? You could post up what you have so far.

HB

[lilmizzp]

This is what I have so far. I'm having trouble with how to add why I didn't pay concerning the troubles trying to get/push the person on.

 

Dear Sir/Madam  

 

I am extremely remorseful for my actions and I am truly sorry. I express with great remorse the consequences of my actions and I would like to deeply apologise for them. I now understand the losses that TFL faces as a result of fare evasion and how damaging it is. I have since paid for an Oyster card as a direct bond to your services to use for my future travels and have applied the correct amount of fare to it.

 

I am willing to make payment for my actions with the opportunity for an out of court settlement. A prosecution would have an unfair and disproportionate impact on my work, my family and myself, including my mental health if this matter were to escalate further to court.

 

 

Again, I would like to express my sincerest apologies for the inconvenience caused. If possible, I would like to resolve this matter best without the need for any court action. If you could kindly allow me the opportunity to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs for dealing with this situation I would be grateful. I can only ask that you will consider my request to settle this matter out of court and avoid any further escalation.

 

 

yours sincerely,

Edited December 15, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[honeybee13]

OK, well that's certainly grovelling but it's repetitive and it doesn't tell them much. If you go back through the posts in your thread, we asked you questions that we think TfL need answers to and I'm not really seeing that in the latest version.

I wouldn't say that you're 'willing' to make payment, you're asking them if they will allow you to. I'm guessing that English isn't your first language but it's important to express this the right way.

Also I wouldn't say that a prosecution would be 'unfair'. You've broken the rules and the law so TfL are allowed to take action against you.

As I say, please go back over our questions to you and see if you can add that to the letter.

HB

[lilmizzp]

Hi, 

I never said “I don’t have anything on me”. I had a debit card but didn't present it as I understood that I hadn't tapped in. 

I am facing this dilemma "if what you write seems at great variance to the member of staff’s report : they are less likely to not prosecute / grant an OOC / administrative settlement."

I am also having trouble with the last name written in the report. I've tried to explain to them that it's incorrect but nothing. All of my other details are correct though.

Edited December 15, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[honeybee13]

What did you say to the staff member then? I don't understand why you didn't present your debit card if that's how you were planning to pay.

I think the spelling of your name is a lesser problem, although if it's on court papers I don't know if that's a problem for them.

HB

[honeybee13]

I see Bazza is here now.

Just to say let's remember that we're dealing with an answer to the SJP notice and a letter to TfL to carry on negotiating with them.

HB

[lilmizzp]

I just made it known to the inspector that I was the persons carer. I offered to pay after the fact but they said that I would receive a carers letter. I have a witness to this, but this is all. 

I want  to present to TFL the option to consider an OOC by writing another letter.

Edited December 15, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[honeybee13]

I want  to present to TFL the option to consider an OOC by writing another letter.

Yes and we're helping you with that.

Have you replied to the SJP? If not, what's the deadline?

HB