Tenant Costs Digital Switchover

[What Next?]

I live in a rented housing association property. There are six flats, all rented. The building is less than ten years old and tenants have always received FREEVIEW (once set top box installed) and other freebie basic channels.

HD ready televisions have been watched without problems.

We have recently received notification of a bill for £4,000+ to install a 9 wire IRS system in order that we “can be ready for TV switchover, April 2012.”

Based on FREEVIEW availability and the fact the building aerial must have met the most recent aerial requirements (fairly new build), could anyone advise whether this IRS work is essential or not.

The £4,000 bill to be split between the six households. Also is this a fair cost?

The leaflet advises us we’ll get FM Radio Signals, DAB Signals, Sky Plus Analogue Terrestrial Signals. I thought the radio signals were no more than plugging in of radio type?

Any advice greatly appreciated – the tenants do not want to settle the bill for what may be an upgrade as opposed to necessity.

[stu007]

Hi

 

What i dont get is why is a Housing Association try to bill its Tenants - Remember this is Social Housing and therefore Tenants could move after handing in the require termanation notice, but also with the Welfare Reform and those classed as under occupying may have no choice but to move.

 

Has your Housing Association Given an explanation as to why the Tenants are being billed for this "Improvement to there Properties" ?

 

The difference would be if any of the properties in your building were Purchased therefore the Owners would have to pay a share for this work.

 

Also bear in mind this is not an improvement due to Housing Association having to upgrade the ariel system to get Digital channels due to the switchover which they would have to do anyway.

 

Was there any 'Consultation' done by the housing association of all those affected by this before any works/bills?

 

I would be writing to the housing association and requesting a full explanation as to why 'TENANTS' are having to pay this bill to improve not your property but the Housing Associations property.

 

My own housing association has already done this with upgrading its systems but no tenant or homeowner is being billed for this work as in the end they would have had to upgrade the systems anyway.

Edited January 26, 2012 by stu007

[padja]

could i suggest you and the other tenents get an aerial engineer out to give you a report as to whether it needs upgrading. (it may cost £120 but thats only £20 each). do you pay for the aerial in your rent? If so then you shouldn't be paying for the upgrade thats why you pay for the aerial it is to cover upgrades. However if you dont pay for aerial they can charge you. however can you have your own aerial fitted if so then politely decline their offer and get your own done (cost about £40-£60).

[caledfwlch]

could i suggest you and the other tenents get an aerial engineer out to give you a report as to whether it needs upgrading. (it may cost £120 but thats only £20 each). do you pay for the aerial in your rent? If so then you shouldn't be paying for the upgrade thats why you pay for the aerial it is to cover upgrades. However if you dont pay for aerial they can charge you. however can you have your own aerial fitted if so then politely decline their offer and get your own done (cost about £40-£60).

 

Or a £10 indoor aerial/booster if signal is good.

 

I am amazed this is something a HA can do without Tenants agreeing, since its not "essential"

[stu007]

Hi

 

Lets put it this way say for example this year the housing association decides to upgrade all bathrooms in there properties - does this give them the right to recoup the costs of this upgrade by billing the tenants for the upgrade. NO

 

Also remember the Housing Association has known for some considerable time about the 'Digital Switchover' and should have planned to take account of any extra costs if equipment needed to be upgraded in there properties and should be account for in the Housing Associations Business Plan. Tenants should not IMHO be bearing these costs.

Edited January 27, 2012 by stu007

[mariner51]

http://www.onevisionltd.co.uk/irs-integrated-reception-systems

 

Depends what you all want? Are they offering sat services?

 

Terr digital may not require a new communal roof aerial, but indoor aerials not rec. so all you may need is set top box or analog/digital enabled TV. Free to air digital TV offers a wide range of TV and radio channels via TV. Pres property is in N East England, the last area to switchover. I would decline HAs 'generous' offer until alternative solutions assessed

Switchover date is date analog Tx will be turned off and digital signal boosted.

The digital service is currently transmitting on reduced power.Anyone with a digital receiver should be able to demonstrate current reception.

Edited January 27, 2012 by mariner51

[dx100uk]

thats very expensive

 

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/propertymanagers/costs_and_options/managing_costs

 

dx

[45002]

I think the HA must be desperate for money....................

 

Just come back from my local Asda and there loads of indoor aerial,cable,bosters for less than 20 quid you could use on free-view !

 

They even got a outdoor aerial,think that was less than 30 quid...

[ashmk]

My aerial has been on my roof for 30 years and picks up all the digital channels perfectly.

[caledfwlch]

This just does not seem quite right to me, I think the OP needs to scan their rental agreement carefully.

 

In my HA Flat, there is a service charge on top of the rent - Rent = £50 per week, Service Charge = £19. The charges include Communal Aerial and its Maintenance.

 

Given that many HA tenants will be on benefits, it seems unlikely they can charge this.

 

Can the OP Scan in their rental contract (removing personal details) and any other paperwork, for example, a list of service charges?

 

And what HA is it?

[What Next?]

Thank You all for the replies.

 

My own viewpoint is that the HA should finance and provide any aerial changes that are needed. Our Tenancy Agreement and rental service charge includes aerial costs, maintenance.

 

The building / flats are already able to receive FREEVIEW etc. without problem (the inlet for this was part of original build) which means that tenants already have basic satellite channels. Upgrading for further satellite channels like SKY is non-essential work.

 

I don’t know when Digital Switchover first became apparent in UK but in view of the fact that the building is less than ten year sold, I expect it to have been built to all known current / near future specification.

 

I am no techie (in case you hadn’t realised) but given that we can receive FREEVIEW, is our current aerial up to grade or do we just need an upgrade aerial in order to fulfil requirements of digital switchover? It seems the HA and cable company are using the digital switchover to upgrade and charge for non-essential work.

 

Also, the blurb tells us about “you’ll get DAB and FM radio inlet” but IMO these can be (externally) sourced without satellite channels / aerial of any type.

 

The letter also states that an appointment will be needed for “installation” suggesting works needed within each flat. Surely the upgrade aerial will suffice without “installation” work within each flat? Current aerial is external. Letter further states “old system will be switched off”. Is all of this necessary?

 

Also, £4,000+ seems huge amount.

[caledfwlch]

Our Tenancy Agreement and rental service charge includes aerial costs, maintenance. .

 

I suspect this is the key part - HA is on a hiding to nothing.

 

Are their people on benefits in the building?

[stu007]

Hi

 

If the housing association is going to do this and bill tenants even with the 'Tenancy Agreement and Rental Service Charge including Aerial Costs and maintenance' well they are already paying for that service ie this upgrade.

 

If the service charges do not cover the full costs for this upgrade then those tenants had the legal right to be consulted on this before any firm decision was taken by the housing association to install this upgrade so there views on costing/increased service charges/installation disruption etc and more importantly whether they wanted this or not was taken onboard by said housing association.

 

From what OPs said sounds like there has been NO consultation done and the housing association is pushing this upgrade through to Improve there own properties for future needs at the tenants costs whether they agree with this or not.

 

I would seriously be challenging this.

 

* As the Housing Association has known abouth the 'Digital Switchover for a few years like everyone else - if this upgrade was needed to all the housing association properties why has the costs for this upgrade not been properly accounted for in the Housing Association 'Business Plan'.

* When did the Housing Association carry out a review of the Ariel System and reach the decision that it needed upgrading due to 'Digital Switchover'.

* When was the decision made about the costs for upgrade and that all tenants would be billed for this upgrade.

* What Policy is being used by the Housing Association to bill tenants for improvements to their properties.

* What consultation did the Housing Association carry out before this decision was taken.

* What the costs per tenant property being £4000+ between six household is there an option for tenants to pay this over a set period of months.

* As this Improvement is to future proof Housing Association Properties why are Tenants Bearing the Costs.

[Donny909]

I often think all the aerial upgrade work for the digital switchover that we all told was needed in all cases is\was nothing more than a con to get a lot of companies a lot of work and even more money when often a simple signal booser would upgrade the signal where it would only in few cases need improving.

 

To prove the point I have a Freeview box in the front bedroom with a cheap areial I got mainly for the fm tuner on the stereo. Out on interest I tried it on the Freeview box, worked right away for most channels and after a bit of moving round can get ALL Freeview channels 90% of the time. Aerial cost?, £1 from poundland, meaning our total outlay to updrade for Freeview was £1.

 

So would love to know where some of these jokers get some of the prices from for what is so essential that it costs the sort of money they are asking for. A suspicious person might say the OP's HA gets a percentage of the chargeable cost for the work and the HA is trying to get even more by trying to charge the tennants for the full cost. But I'd not be so suspicious to say that!.

[padja]

Whilst owners of flats in a block of HA may be liable tenants are not if the aerial costs are included in service charges. I decided to check with my HA as I live in flat with communal aerial and was told under no circumstances would I be charged for any upgrade, I may have an increase in service charge if they upgraded to receive satellite signals but it would be approx 70p a week. So I would speak to your HA and if they still insist on charge I would get councilors involved. My local electrical retailer (independent and been there for over 40years) told me a simple way to see if you aerial can get freeview, if at the end of the aerial you see a black plastic then it can receive freeview any other colour the aerial will need either replacing or signal booster attached.

[mariner51]

HA are not 'upgrading' the aerial, they are replacing the whole delivery system for one which is much more expensive! Betterment. IMO

 

What do other Ts & owners think?

[CrappoMan]

HA are not 'upgrading' the aerial, they are replacing the whole delivery system for one which is much more expensive! Betterment. IMO

Agreed.

 

As digital switchover happens in your area, when the analog signal is turned off, the digital signal will be boosted in power, and you should be able to pick it up on most aerials. I live in Yorkshire, we switched over in Sept 2011. Before switchover I had trouble picking up freeview signals on 'set-top' aerials, now I can pick them up using just the aerial lead with no actual aerial attached.

 

From the OP's switchover date of April 2012, i'm assuming he is served by the Crystal Palace trasmitter, and switchover will happen on 4th & 18th April.

 

On 4th April BBC2 analogue will be switched off permanently and BBC digital channels will be boosted. On 18th April the remaining analogue channels will be switched off permanently and all other digital channels will be boosted.

 

For Crystal Palace, a horizontal polarization group A (red) or wideband (black) aerial is required.

 

Most aerials don't need to be changed, but some do. Ignorance of this is what drives the so called 'experts' to recommend an expensive aerial installation when something more modest would do the job perfectly well.

[padja]

so by OP's HA working out if they put a new kitchen in they will charge him for new fitted kitchen

[stu007]

Padja thats my point also as i can understand owners having to bear certain costs but not tenants as i have already pointed out this should have been accounted for in the Housing Associations Business Plan and if not WHY as they have had plenty of notice of switchover like everyone else.

 

Also what would make this situation even worse is if that Housing Association had Charitable Status.

[silverfox1961]

Two properties ago (I moved a bit) my local authority installed this system to take account of the digital switchover.

On each block of flats they installed one satellite dish, one TV aerial, one radio aerial. this went to a distribution box and cables fed from that box to each flat.

This allowed everyone to have digital TV (either Sky+ or freeview) and you could plug in a DAB radio and get loads more channels than in an internal aerial.

 

The cost. Nothing up front although they did increase the rent by 75p per week.

[nohope]

If you can all get freeview then why not just tell the HO that non of you want it as your current system is ok.

 

Just been reading up on IRS systems and unless anybody in the block wants sky then its realy not worth it. also most companys that fit the systems do it on a yearly contract for HO so the cost is spread over the year through a bump in rent or service charge but would only be up to £1 a week.

[What Next?]

Back again – thank you for your guidance – I couldn’t update you sooner because it has taken all this time to get a response from the landlord. Extracts from the response received today include:

 

whilst most Master Antenna Television systems can carry both analogue and digital signals, it cannot carry satellite services or offer the choice that an IRS can – this work is part of a bigger programme identified as part of an options appraisal – landlord undertook an Equality Impact Assessment to test landlords Diversity & Inclusion strategy would be adhered to including providing choice to the diverse needs of our tenants;

 

the IRS system offers the most flexibility and choice in meeting our tenants specific needs both now and in the future allowing tenants to opt to have Sky multi-room should they wish to subscribe. For tenants whose first language is not English, an additional satellite dish is being fitted to receive foreign language services;

 

the estimated cost to you may vary from the quotes provided in the stage 2 section 20 notices, with costs being confirmed when works completed;

 

My viewpoint is:

 

the tenants in my block will have exactly the same free services as previous but will be able to subscribe to paid for satellite;

 

our tenancy agreements and service charges include maintenance of aerial;

 

all occupants of the block pay rent (none own property). Whilst a spread of the cost may only equate to pennies weekly, what next?

 

tenants needs frequently change i.e. – we will all get older – should I start funding for upgrade to all properties for stair-lift, walk in bath?;

 

many households will have families – should renting tenants fund extensions in anticipation of extra rooms needed for tenants ‘specific needs in the future’?;

 

I don’t receive housing benefit but many HA tenants do – can they reclaim the costs from HB? Also, many HA tenants are vulnerable and elderly, themselves marginalised and should not have to finance the ‘diverse needs of our tenants both now and in the future’.

 

The HA states diversity yet has sent a mailshot stating that those living in houses, bungalows will have to make their own arrangements re: digital switchover. Whilst it is accepted that flat dwellers have different renting terms (i.e. service charges), is the diversity policy discriminating against the flat dwellers who appear to be the ones expected to fund the ‘diverse needs of our tenants, specific needs both now and in the future’? The strapline in the January 2012 mailshot states “landlord has been working hard behind the scenes to make sure the people who live in flats with a shared aerial will be able to watch free TV channels after the digital switchover takes place in their area”. Absolutely no reference to what is an elaborate upgrade. The tenants in most new blocks including mine can already receive all stated in the strapline.

The contractor has already completed the work on my block (whilst I have been awaiting landlord’s response) and sent tenants a letter advising that “the existing communal aerial system will be switched off following completion of the new installation”.

Landlord advises that “access is needed within individual properties to install a new TV socket in your lounge”.

Contractor advises of appointment timeline after-which “old system will be switched off within 15 days”. Nice.

[caledfwlch]

I find it extremely unlikely that a Landlord has any statutory duty under "diversity" to fit television equipment. I think you all need to take legal advice on this - what if you move out 6 months after? The new tenant will have the benefit of this brand new system and bare none of the cost of installing it!

 

It seems incredibly unlikely to me that a Tenant could be held liable for the fitting of a communal aerial - if there is a Service Charge, then stuff like that is included in the SC - it will be under "communal tv aerial"

 

I really think the Landlord is completely and utterly wrong on this one, especially since there is/has been no discussion.

[What Next?]

Thank You. I agree not just subjectively but look at the precedent it could set.

 

I do not feel the HA has any statutory duty to fit this system – it will have a duty to ensure that it understand its tenants profiles and supports where able but I don’t feel that this upgrade is any type of priority in times of austerity, benefit reductions to the elderly and vulnerable (especially if the charges cannot be recovered via HB / other state benefit – can anyone clarify?). I also feel that many elderly and vulnerable may not even realise this work was not necessary in regard of switchover.

 

Also, HA has now written that final cost unknown – tenant to be updated – how can that be?

[silverfox1961]

What my (ex) local council did when they fitted this type of wquipment (which to be fair is very good) was that they increased the rent to cover the costs. It was about £1.50-2.00 per week.

 

This (IMO) is what they should be doing.

 

As an aside, who will be paying for the electricity to run the systems?