DCA yay or nay

[sillygirl1]

It is also symptomatic of many of the companies who don't properly deal with the core issues

 

Incorrect billing

Inability to deal properly with a consumer problem with their services

Blatant profiteering (particularly relevant with a payday loan, they already have a high interest rate and that should be IT)

Refusal to adjust billing dates so customers don't fall into the continual debt cycle

Claiming their £10 late payment fees, £15 letter fees and £15 phone call fees are legitimate expenses - we should counter claim likewise!

Farming out debts which hide the fact they have appalling customer services

[sillygirl1]

Sorry TK but DCAs do go to court via their in-house 'solicitors for rent' companies... these cases are easily defended and you can sometimes prove that THEY are the ones at fault in many other ways.

 

Since the days of the bank claim fiasco there is little point in going down the unenforceable contract route if you have been paying an original creditor, but for many older debts there is every chance they may be statute barred - knowledge of the statute barred law is NOT a criminal offence, which one person I know about was told....

[sillygirl1]

Perhaps naming the DCAs who have listened would be a good move, then we can compare them to stories on here....

 

I am currently being phone called daily by one DCA (Moorcroft) and the alleged debt doesn't even exist any more, caused by a billing error with the OC, the OC has assured me they have recalled the alleged debt but it takes up to 48 hours for the DCA to update their records - and I am wondering how long it will take to remove the incorrect details from my credit rating!

 

Credit ratings are another area that needs to be overhauled, clearly 'earning' credit is not the way forward anymore so the whole system has made itself redundant.

[LaughingGirl]

Perhaps people would have more sympathy for DCA's if they didn't lie, misrepresent their powers, harass and intimidate people. It's such a bizarre way to conduct a business in the first place - if their call handlers didn't treat people like criminals to start off with, perhaps more people would take their head out of the sand and start dealing with their problems.

 

I could bang on for hours with different stories, but I think my favorite () was the DCA who told my other half that he didn't have time to contact Southern Water for evidence of an alleged debt, because they were going to start court proceedings to make him bankrupt in four days. The amount 'owed' was from memory £119 - certainly less than £200. After a bit of fishing around, it turned out Southern Water had issued a duplicate final bill when we left our previous property but even after we sent them the letter from Southern Water saying this was the case, they persisted in harassing him for weeks. Or how about the lovely DCA who sent a collector round for the previous tenant's £600 Virgin bill (how you run up a £600 bill with them is beyond me, but OK)? Being a bit naive at that time, I foolishly gave him my own personal details and showed him our tenancy agreement to 'prove' that the tenancy had changed hands - guess who got a bill for £600 the next week?

 

I did go through a period a long time ago where I was in financial difficulty and was involved with DCA's for things I actually owed. It all started with a very small amount of around £200, but because I was young and knew nothing, they terrified me into paying them the full amount which in turn lead to me not being able to pay my rent, getting (sub-prime) credit (Hello Welcome and Beneficial, goodbye sanity and sleep) to pay that off, and then a horrible, miserable descent into robbing Peter to pay Paul which lasted for longer than I care to remember. What would they have lost by saying "Of course you can pay a tenner a week for 20 weeks"? instead of "You're not being realistic - when we take you to court the judge will ask if you got the original credit fraudulently if that's all you can afford to pay".

 

All I'm asking for is a level playing field - you say that people shouldn't use the Statute Barred Legislation to 'wriggle out' of paying debts, but at least that's legal. Sticking my name on a previous tenants bill and trying to get me to cough up for it most certainly isn't. Lying to my partner by telling him they had the power to make him bankrupt when they didn't is probably not illegal, but it's definitely amoral. Discouraging someone from finding out if a debt is real isn't far behind.

 

If you've had good experiences with them, I'm genuinely pleased for you - debt is a horrible thing to have to deal with, and if the people you are working with make it easier than that can only be a good thing. Sadly, from what I can see (and not just on here, from personal experience) you are in a very small minority. I agree with SillyGirl1 - would you be prepared to name the DCA's you're involved with? It would be interesting to correlate your experience with those of others on here.

[Bombaymix]

Yeah, I'm also FOR the op naming these DCAs.

 

Theghost seems to have a lot of time also for DCAs - maybe some input on DCAs and how great they are would help balance this debate. *_*

[sillygirl1]

Running up a £600 bill on Virgin is easy, you just get a mobile phone, realise it is over a 3 year contract and then try and cancel it within the month, they don't listen, don't want to know and don't care, you signed the contract (no, prove it - then when they can't they start panicking). I know because it happened to a brother. I also had similar when I cancelled outside the original contract period and they went for another 2 year period, after having written to confirm that I wouldn't have this charge.

 

Typical example of poor billing services - and poor customer service.

 

I too have a horror story about a DCA who threatened to phone me hourly until I coughed up, I told them they would be wasting their time as I wasn't in a position to pay until the end of the month, they waffled on about me evading my debts and I contacted the OFT and Trading Standards who intervened.

 

Naming good DCAs is something the likes of Credit Today do in their 'self appointed, DCA funded awards ceremony'.

[LaughingGirl]

Ah - I forgot they did mobile phones. I was wondering how many PPV movies you had to watch to end up with a £600 bill.

 

I'm assuming sarcasm in your last sentence!

[t_k]

Sorry TK but DCAs do go to court via their in-house 'solicitors for rent' companies

 

I did not say that none of them go to court - i said most of them don't for the reasons i stated.

I've have owed DCA's off & on since around the late 90s now and not one has ever taken me anywhere near a court despite their threats.

That's because they soon know that i am not easy to bully and know my rights too much.

[theghost]

I dont have 'a lot of time' for DCAs but I perhaps I have a more balanced view as I have had experience of dealing with consumers/DCAs from an independent standpoint.

 

The DC industry isnt how it is because all debtors are nice and lovely people - I'll leave it at that.

[Bombaymix]

Shame DCAs (in general) have to employ bullying and harassment tactics to try and collect their debts. I've dealt with a few over the years due to a lot of naivety and stupidity on my part when I was a lot younger.

 

Sure, I thought back then that because the situation was caused by my stupidity that I deserved to be verbally abused by some dry uninterested prat from Crapquest... I offered him payment but it wasn't enough... He told me to "run along and find somebody with a debit card and pay my bills" told him I knew nobody with a debit card, he told me not to be so ridiculous and go out onto the street of I had to and FIND somebody with a debit card. He said he was not putting the phone down until I had found somebody with a debit card.... He stayed on the line for over an hour. I left the phone on the table and rang everybody I know.. I spoke to him and told him I'd tried everybody... He told me to continue trying... Hung up.

 

Don't think I've ever answered my phone since to a number I don't know/recognise. I suppose that in itself taught me a valuable lesson early on.

 

I've also had some guy with an attitude (and a personal hygiene problem) from MMF at my door wanting to come in and chat about my finaces over a cup of coffee... My mum told him to foxtrot Oscar and then lectured me about bringing bailiffs to the door. Told her he was only a "wannabe bailiff"... I then watched as he took pictures of the house.

 

Both of the above were offered reasonable payment offers before. They are both included in my debt management plan now.

 

I have more unpleasant experiences with other companies. I don't seem to recall any pleasant experiences with any. If I find some... I'll include them here to keep it balanced. I'm all for a fair portrayal of companies on this thread. Maybe if their reputation is built up here people will be less reluctant to deal with the companies.

 

So c'mon... I say DCAs are a bunch of shysters in general, you and the op have different opinions. Please share your experiences in this thread and name some names. It might help a few people - I believe, the intention of this site!

[theghost]

Multiple examples of people doing everything they can to evade paying debts - including asking TS to assist them but on further invstigation (including telephones being listened to) finding out the consumer wasn't telling the truth.

 

But geenerally speaking of all the complaints recieved, very few having any substance and in relation to the number of accounts the DCA was chasing the number of complaints was miniscule.

 

I dont doubt DCAs are/can be dodgy but some people don't seem to be aware they collect millions of pounds of genuine debt and there are lots of people out there doing anything they can not to pay.

 

Some people just dont like it when you paint the picture of the DC not being totally evil and wrong every time.

 

(above is a mixture of my own and someone elses experiences)

[LaughingGirl]

I dont have 'a lot of time' for DCAs but I perhaps I have a more balanced view as I have had experience of dealing with consumers/DCAs from an independent standpoint.

 

The DC industry isnt how it is because all debtors are nice and lovely people - I'll leave it at that.

 

No...it is how it is because some people are easy to bully, and there's lots of money to be made out of those people.

 

I'm sure some debtors are legitimately complete whatsits, I don't doubt that for a minute. That doesn't give them the right to lie, harass, intimidate and demean people who aren't though.

 

Another tactic which is really getting on my nerves at the minute is that they're ringing my Mum at all hours to cross question her about her neighbours and former neighbours whereabouts. The fact that someone owes them money does not give them the right to ring my elderly and currently very vulnerable mother at 8.20 in the morning! Seriously, where does it all stop?

[Geordie911]

This is one for the Site team Guy's or any Legal buffs on CAG, what would be the legal implication be if I were to start a Blog of Naming and Shaming DCA's with other people who have had bad experiences with these companies.

 

 

 

Perhaps naming the DCAs who have listened would be a good move, then we can compare them to stories on here....

I am currently being phone called daily by one DCA (Moorcroft) and the alleged debt doesn't even exist any more, caused by a billing error with the OC, the OC has assured me they have recalled the alleged debt but it takes up to 48 hours for the DCA to update their records - and I am wondering how long it will take to remove the incorrect details from my credit rating!

 

Credit ratings are another area that needs to be overhauled, clearly 'earning' credit is not the way forward anymore so the whole system has made itself redundant.

[sillygirl1]

Moorcrofts system has to be commented on, you phone up, give their reference and then they ask you questions about the debt, then you go through security... mad, especially when being told the OC has recalled the debt as it was THEIR error in the first place.

 

Luckily I have learnt to wind up the DCAs on the phone and point out their idiocy to them, and remind them of the actual LAW, not their 'perception' of the LAW - yes they can phone up to 9pm at night but it is NOT advisable when you have already been told once that day "NOT TO PHONE".

[Happyhippy1959]

A good article, the main thing that stands out for me is this A DCA has no legal powers what so ever. ( simples ) I agree with another point, DCA's and OC's do harrass and phone at work. lucky I had told my colleagues of my divorce and debt problem and it was an emergency hospital line so that stopped that. Also, DCA's tred very lightly once they know you are not going to be pushed around. I have in my possession a numerous collection of faux pas letters ranging from, WE DON'T HAVE TO SEND YOU THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT OR ANY PROOF...!!!!! To and I admit here hats off to CRABOT, yes your debt is under English Law unenforceable because we bought a lemon but we can still write and ask you for it... Please do, your money your spending but now I am not even replying as the SB clock will start...

 

If those dodgy MP's with there duck houses can claim for two or three houses and dress up there allowances and bankers dressing up toxic debt as AAA can still sit in there plush houses and get there bonuses so be it. I believe somewhere it would have been cheaper to pay every adult in the UK £40,000 to spend on a car or purchase than to have bailed out the banks. !!!!!!!!! They could have stipulated buy British products etc etc .... I am no economist but have worked in the financial sector before my NHS day's and can assure you it is very very profit ridden,,, get every penny you can.... by fair means or foul in those horrid days before the consumer took control.

[unclebulgaria67]

I think this has become the general whinge thread.

 

As such, I would question the ownership of many of the DCA's and whether their owners are paying FULL UK tax. I am led to believe that many of the DCA's are owned by private equity companies and that they often find tax efficient ways to offer the best return to investors that they can. How many of the investors in the private equity companies are actually based abroad and not registered for tax purposes in the UK ?

[Fred Bassett]

In relation the SB, the responses on here prove my point. I find it difficult to believe that a creditor will fail to chase someone for payment for a full 6 years, what is more likely is they have tried and failed to get into contact with the debtor.

 

So what they do is contact dozens of people, all with the same name, in the hope that eventually they will find the one they really want. All of the people they contact are then put through the stress of having to deal with them.

 

I also can't understand why there is a debate over the moral aspect of chasing for the full debt owed when the DCA may have purchased it for a lot less. Correct me if I'm wrong but for a business to stay afloat don't they need to make money. How would they make money if they bought a debt for £20 and only collected £20? Where's the profit?

 

So you think it's OK to buy these accounts at 5%-10% of their face value and then charge 100% plus interest? This after the original creditor has already written the entire amount off against tax. Most of us on here would love to see a situation where it was impossible for DCAs to stay afloat.

 

If I am honest I have been treated better by the DCA's then I ever was by the banks when I tried to sort things out at the start.

 

There's always one exception to prove the rule.

 

Just putting DCA's are **** is hardly debate worthy .....

 

There is simply no better way of describing them. These are companies which a) trade on other people's misery, b) lie, cheat and bully to the extent that they have been responsible for a number of suicides (does the name Beryl Brazier ring any bells) c) break any number of laws in the course of their daily business. These companies ARE **** in my opinion and they deserve the accolade.

 

 

Fred

Edited January 16, 2012 by Fred Bassett

[theghost]

Whats wrong with the OC writing off debt 'against tax'?

 

What you mean is that if they have £20m of bad debt they can get tax allowance for it?

Presumably though if they then get that income back via a DCA they pay tax on it?

 

Can you expand?

[t_k]

but some people don't seem to be aware they collect millions of pounds of genuine debt and there are lots of people out there doing anything they can not to pay.

 

Yes it's called ignoring the DCA's - it's the easiest and most effective thing to do in order not to pay & even better given that the vast majority don't go anywhere near courts like i said earlier.

[theghost]

Yes it's called ignoring the DCA's - it's the easiest and most effective thing to do in order not to pay & even better given that the vast majority don't go anywhere near courts like i said earlier.

 

also known as debt avoidance and the reason why DCAs are so aggresive to start with.

[Fred Bassett]

also known as debt avoidance and the reason why DCAs are so aggresive to start with.

 

Which in turn leads people to find this site and start finding ways to spite the DCAs. These are vile people doing a vile job. Anything that can be done to make their job harder or, better still, to stop their income altogether is fair game in my book. On a personal level, I was paying all of my debts a few years ago through a DMP with the CCCS. Despite this, the banks (particularly the Halifax) and their lackey DCAs made my life miserable and effectively drove me to this site with the result that some of my debts are now on the way to being statute barred. We've done all this moral bit before loads of times, in fact I created my own thread on this nearly 4 years ago: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?152388-Debt-Avoidance-The-Moral-Debate. I stand by what I said in that thread, with the exception that some of my accounts are now owned by ****** debt buyers who don't deserve a penny in my book as they haven't earned it. I've never had a financial relationship with them, never approached them for a loan or a credit card, so whereas I was more than happy to pay the original creditor I will not pay these vermin a penny if I can get away with it.

[theghost]

lol, we are not going to change eachothers views so no point trying I spose.

 

 

just out of interest, if someone purposelly runs up lots of debts and runs off do you not think the creditor shoudl be able to appoint a company to get some of their money back? if that includes taking a harsh line, so be it? at the end of the day the creditor will lose money either way as soon as someone elects to stop paying. i dont really subscribe to the idea that the big bad banks have forced us to buy stuff on credit or have expensive mobile phone accounts and so on,

 

IMO not all debt chasing is bad - but some people have it in their heads that all DCAs do is chase people who have fallen on hard times.

[FO_Sg]

Ghosty are u sure that you are on the right website here reading your entries makes the question worth asking.

[theghost]

Ghosty are u sure that you are on the right website here reading your entries makes the question worth asking.

 

I spose that is in refernce to the fact that I am not over zealously anti DCA?

 

Well, as I have said, my conclusion is based on various factors - not simply because I have been on the recieving end of a dodgy DCA.

[FO_Sg]

so are you working for trading standards then ?

what are these varios factors I am sorry if i missed something but I cant see that you have explained what they are.

what do you think about people who have a right to not pay because the debt owner cant find an agreement is this not a good enough reason ?