spoof Photoshoot - won a competition - DCA now chancing

[burmafriday]

Hi

 

Please help me to deal with a debt collection agency who is acting on behalf of a "photo Studio" in London. I have spent many days going through various websites to try to get to grips with this and see that a couple of similar..ish stories had been posted here so i thought it would be a good place to start.

 

Sorry its long but I will try and keep it as short as possible.

 

Sept 2008 - my daughter won a "model photoshoot" for herself and a friend. So they got dolled up and went to a studio in London and had the shoot. They were kept waiting for a couple of hours when they arrived, then again, were kept waiting for a couple more hours after the shoot. Then a sales lady came out showed them many photos, asked them to choose the ones they liked, and told them a range of packages they can offer and a range of respective prices. Eventually, they agreed to buy 5 photos of each totalling £ 500. paying £ 50 per month. My daughter agreed to pay as they had been waiting so long (and her friend would make the monthly payments to my daugher.)

 

My daughter was asked to sign the agreement - which she did. The sales lady then took the agreement away and said she will return with the signed agreement and the photos.

 

Again, they were kept waiting another couple of hours when the lady returned with an envelope, apologised for the delay, handed the envelope over to my daughter and took them out. As the girls had been kept waiting for so long and it was getting very late in the evening, they just took the envelope and returned back home.

 

When they looked at the CD hey found that there were much more than the 5 photos each so they thought "how nice, they gave us a whole load more"... then they looked at the agreement and found that the prices were totally different to what had been agreed.

 

Instead of £ 500, its now £2000. They were absolutely shocked to say the least. They phoned the studio immediately in the morning and got no reply. So they got even more worried. They kept trying and eventually a lady answered. My daughter explained the situation. She was curtly told that it was not a cancellable contract. They would not change the prices and as she had signed the agreement, she has to pay. Then the lady slammed the phone down. So my daughter by now was totally distressed.

 

When she calmed down, she phoned again, only to be met by the same woman who told her to stop calling as theres nothing more to be done. My daughter was simply told that she signed a non cancellable agreement and hung up.

 

My daughter then phoned again the next day, to ask to speak to a manager, when she got through, the same lady answered and then immediately hung up, when she realised that it was my daughter again.

 

I was then told about the problem. I advised my daughter to cancel the direct debit, write to the studio, explain the situation regarding the change in prices and return the photos - which she did.

 

Then, the manager wrote back and basically said the same thing - it was a non cancellable contract agreement and my daughter has to pay the agreed amount. He further stated in his letter that the sales lady had worked there a long time, he carried out an investigation, the sales lady entered the prices as agreed, witnessed by her manager, and therefore the contract stood.

 

My daughter and her friend both explained to me that his explanation was totally incorrect. The manager who acted as a witness was not present. When my daughter signed the agreement the price feilds were not completed. They were completed elsewhere - my daughter and her friend both were told that the sales lady was going to have the agreement signed by her manager.

 

My daughter wrote to them a couple more times and told them her side of the story and stuck to it. I then advised her to write and confirm to the photo studio that i would be acting on her behalf. I wrote and re-iterated what my daughter had explained and told them that the photos with the CD have been returned, the prices were not as agreed and therefore that was the end of the matter.

 

I was then contacted by a debt collection agency and i informed them the same. Its now been ongoing till now when they are threathening court action. We are now in at the end of the 3rd year of all of ths.

On reflection - i guess they have been building up a file .. but then all i have done was repeated myself time and again. I would have thought if they wanted to take my daughter to court, they could have and would have done so already.

 

However, I really want to finish this as it really is causing a lot of distress to my daughter - who now feels even worse as she feels that she "got me into this" This issue had really affected her exremely badly. I can see the change in her.

 

My daugther and her friend had just turned 18 when this happened. Like all young adults their age, they have fun etc. and now and again do it in excess. However, they are both sensible young ladies and there is no way on earth they would enter into a contract for £ 2000. Not for photos; not for anything. They were and still are both students. They are both very honest.

 

The [problem] is pretty obvious - get them in, keep them wating all day till the evening, get the punters to sign an agreement, change the prices and then force them to pay prices they did not agree to.

 

Has anyone in CAG gone through this kind of situation? Can some one pl advise me on what next i can do to put this to an end? I contacted the police to report fraud, but they say its a civil matter. I am reporting this matter to Consumer Direct as advised by OFT. I guess i should have done it earlier, but I have had my own issues.

 

Should I serve them with a notice for harassment or a small claims for the deposit which my daugther had paid them.

 

or - just wait ???

 

I really would appreciate any help from any one at CAG.

 

Many thanks

Burmafriday

[seanamarts]

These people are not professional at all, they have certainly taken advantage of your daughter and her friend.

Does your daughter have a copy of the contract?

Have you heard back from Consumer direct?

Did you inform the debt company involved that this is a disputed debt?

[dx100uk]

i would certainly not fall for any threat-o-grams

 

this is exactly what matt albright eluded too the other morning on his program

 

its a shame you daughters lost out

i'm not sure after all this time what you can do to get money back

UNLESS it was paid by a card number.

dx

[BankFodder]

Have you got a copy of the contract and can you see that the figures were entered by a different hand

[seanamarts]

Hang on a minute, all you got was the photos on a CD, no prints done at all.

Your daughter won the photo shoot, yes? So didnt have to pay for the shoot.

Does your daughter know how big the photos that she saw on the CD were, its a pity I cant see them to gage how big they were as in pixel ratio.

Did she order any prints at all from this company.

[burmafriday]

Dear All,

 

thanks so much for all your fast response - i am real sorry i had to go out and after i submitted my post.

Let me answer all the questions

 

Seanamarts :

your first email (a) yes we have a copy of the agreement (b) I have not heard back from Consumer Direct © Yes - what i actually told them was that there was no debt as the CD with the photos were returned. Should I have stated that this is a disputed debt? i did not want to use those words when i wrote to them - the fact that i said there was no debt clearly states i am disputing it.

 

your second mail - no - there were no prints - and she did not order any. she "won" the photoshoot but had to buy the photos. I do not know in what context she won.

 

dx100uk - thanks for your comments - well she paid the deposit for the photos in the CD by debit card. How does that make a difference?

 

BankFodder - yes we got the copy of the agreement. I can see that the figures were written in the same hand writing. They used a standard pre-printed agreement which is in triplicate and the copies are "carbon copies" if you see what i mean. so whats written on the top copy is reproduced in the carbon copy underneath.

 

The key issue for me is to try and end this ASAP - but i also appreciate that sometimes this may not be possible and the best action would be to just wait and see what they do.

 

In the agreement - there is a clause and it states

 

Cancellation rights : Because this Agreement is to be signed by both you and us at our business premises, this agreement is not cancellable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

this is a new one on me - is this a fair clause? is this not a one sided term which favours the service provider?

If this is real and true, then surely they would have served a writ on my daugher ages ago.

 

can some one please advise me on this.

 

many thanks again to every one for their fast response.

 

Burmafriday

[dx100uk]

sounds like more borrocks to me

 

i doubt they will actually carryout any threats of court

 

as for the debit card payment....

 

it would not hurt to ring your bank

go thru the story

but there might be a chance under chargeback rules

however many banks have no idea how this works

though they may also be liable under your T&C's

 

ask for it to be refunded or investigated as fraud.

 

you never know.

 

anyhow

dont forget the golden rules.........

 

never ever converse with anyone regard alleged debts on the phone

and no dca has any legal powers

 

all they can do is threaten.

 

dx

[seanamarts]

Burmafriday, can you pm me the photography company please. i will try and find out if they are members of any credible association's.

Can you also let me know how your daughter won the photo shoot.

I have to agree with dx here and doubt very much that this will get to a court.

If they are trying to charge your daughter 2 grand for a CD of photo's taken and no prints, I would say that a Judge would find this very dubious.

Even £500 for 5 prints is pretty extortionate. 2 grand for a CD is taking the P, if you know what I mean.

[burmafriday]

Hi dx and Hi seanamarts

 

thanks very much for your fast replies - sorry i am not as fast as you in getting back to you.

 

Yes dx - i agree - its all a road of borrocks. !! i will ask my daughter to write to her bank. I think thats the best route. Thanks for that.

The debt collectors phoned many times and i spoke with them - i was always very polite and always maintained that there was no contract. When they tell me that it ws a non cancellable contract - my comment was that "theres no such thing." I wrote to them and told them to stop harrassing us, that we have no debt and that was our final position on the matter.

 

Seanamarts - yes i will scan the agreement and send u. (My scanner broke just - as i was trying to scan.) and i will PM the company name and details to you.

I also agree with you regarding their super trumped up prices. My daugher may have been naive, but not that stupid - as she said, she could buy a car for that money.

 

I will ask my daughter exactly how she "won" the photoshoot - I never asked that. what difference/impact will this make?

 

Thanks so much. your responses on this issue really does make a difference. My whole attitude towards this and the debt collection company has changed - big time.

 

All the best/BF

[seanamarts]

To be honest with you, I personally think your daughter was spoofed.

I Know that these "winner shoots" are a way to get people to buy their photos, but you are given a choice on what you want and the photos are sent via the post in the sizes that are offered.

The most I have seen any one pay is around £150 to £250. for their photos, no contracts, I cant see why there was a need for a contract.

 

If she won the shoot via a random email being sent or from a web site that flashes up then I would say that it is a con and they need to be investigated.

[seanamarts]

I have looked at the contract that was signed by BF's daughter and have to say Im not happy that another named company at a different address is on the credit/contract agreement

 

You have a right to cancel their agreement as long as everything has been sent back with in a 7 day period.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/64.

[seanamarts]

Well this is a bit of a turn up, I have just checked company house and the only photo company with the name that took your daughters photo's went into liquidation in 2007. There are no other limited companies under that name. They company was listed as being in Hornchurch. They were also a photography studio.

[dx100uk]

with that info

 

i'd phone the bank

explain you think you have been scammed back in 2008

point to the 2007 non existance of the company and ask what are the chances of the money

back, even under fraud rules or WHY

it wont hurt.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

i would also name them please

so's we can amend the thread title

 

dx

[citizenB]

burnafriday, I would cease all telephone contact with the DCA from this point onwards. Ensure that all communication is in writing, keep copies and always send via Recorded delivery and keep the receipts.

[dx100uk]

who is the dca please

 

dx

[seanamarts]

Ive got the DCA now dx its Oriel. Cant say that I have heard of them, OP wont be back till later this after noon.

[citizenB]

http://www.orielgroup.co.uk/Collections/ConsumerCollections

 

Oriel, website link..

 

Never heard of them??

[dx100uk]

haha

some tin-pot back street muppet show i bet.

 

ignore them

 

get that money back out of the bank under fraud claim

 

dx

[Surfer01]

Would they have needed at credit licence to set up the repayment contract|?

[citizenB]

I noticed this thread was in the Bank forums.. it has now been moved to General Consumer Issues

[seanamarts]

Thanks CB

[stu007]

Hi

 

You also need to check the Agreement carefully as to who owns the 'Copyright' to the photographies taken.

[beetlebugone]

the photo studio wasn,t model days/saphire studios was it? friend having big problems with them at the moment

[seanamarts]

Hi beetle

 

I can assure you it was not that particular company

 

If you are have issues with the photo company and you require help then please could you start your own thread

 

We ask that you start your own thread so that neither get confused by others reading or advising, or one gets lost.

 

If you are unsure on how to start a new thread please come and ask