Atos - issues with assessment

[honeybee13]

Now the Atos debate thread has had to close, Erika has asked me to start a new thread for us discuss our experiences with the assessment.

 

For those who don't know, I was assessed by Atos a few years ago and ended up in a battle to continue being paid my IB.

 

My assessment was with a doctor who hardly looked at me and seemed mesmerised by the computer screen, which was very offputting. I understand that Atos assessors have been encouraged not to do this now.

 

Having failed to gain enough points and recovered from the panic attack, I asked the DWP for a copy of the Atos report. I was pretty surprised to read what it said about me. Some of the answers weren't what I had said and in places, the report contradicted itself.

 

Here is a link to leemack's sticky on how to answer the assessor's questions and avoiding giving yes/no responses.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?287253-esa-medicals

 

After I failed the assessment, my husband was a huge help. He found out what the DWP descriptors are and said the only way to argue was to use the DWP's own rules against them. We went through the Atos report in fine detail and put together an appeal document explaining why the report was incorrect and why I should have been awarded 15 points or more.

 

To cut a long story short, I won my appeal but had to go to the tribunal to be awarded the right number of points. I've described my experience on a sticky on this forum http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information and so has Bookworm. The template letter in the sticky has helped other caggers to win their appeals.

 

I hope this will help people who are being put through the system in some way.

 

Lastly, here is a link to Erika's sticky about how she would like this thread to work.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?317602-Annoucement-about-the-Welfare-ATOS-Government-debate-thread

 

My best, to everyone,

 

HB

[leemack]

I thought I'd share my current plans re assessment.

 

When I was assessed the criteria for the support group that I came close to meeting was being able to walk less than 30 metres. As I can walk 30 metres (just) and was honest in the assessment, I didn't meet the criteria.

 

However, from March, this descriptor changed to be 50 metres, so I would now qualify.

Being in the support group wouldn't have bothered me, but from April its the only way to continue receiving cont based esa (despite the tories promising no one with disabilities would be worse off!)

 

So I'm now faced with the prospect of contacting the DWP to ask them to review the case in light of the new criteria. This may well put me at risk of being reassessed by ATOS early in order to get a decision on this issue. If I fail the new assessment I'll have to appeal and will be back on assessment rate. If I do nothing I lose ESA in April.

 

What would you do?

[BettieBoo]

Hi everyone;

went for a second atos medical today (had one last year, failed, appealed & won tribunal)

Was really different to my last one. Went with my partner & had to see a man, didn't even tell me who he was (didn't seem as if he was a doctor as he didn't even know what my medication was what I bought along)

I was in there for literally 5-10 mins! my last medical was over an hour long! Has anyone else had this? I told him how my illness affects my daily life & that I do not do much during the day. The guy actually tried to be sarcastic with me & said 'so what do you do just sit and stare at the wall' He also asked me if I was good at maths??

He got as far as my typical daily routine and then it ended. I was shocked at how quick it was!

Dreading getting the results back! Pretty sure i'll be back to doing another appeal again:(

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I can't give you any technical advice I'm afraid, I just wanted to say I know how Atos make you feel and understand what you're going through. My sympathies.

 

Hopefully you have made notes to remind you about this rubbish meeting and will be even better at the appeal than you were last time. Don't forget the forum stickies if they will help you.

 

HB x

[MrHistory]

Thought I would post a positive one or at least I hope the outcome is a good one,

 

Not going to go into great detail on a open fourm, But medical went like this not word for word but you will get the idea,

 

Doctor turns up and asks a few questions and starts to write a few things down now this is where it gets strange but fun,

 

Doc: Do you pass out at all

Me: No never passed out in my life

Doc: Well with what you suffer with I would expect a person to pass out at least once a week

Me: Nope as I've said I've never passed out

Doc: Infact I would expect a person who suffers with that you have pass out at least once a day at least

Me: Well now you come to mention It I do pass out at least once a day if not more

Doc: Thought so

 

Doc now writes down that I pass out at least once a day, Doc then asks a few more questions not many then next It's,

 

Doc: I see your on this medication I bet your like a zombie after taking that

Me: No It does nothing for me I feel fine

Doc: Are you sure you don't feel like a zombie and are unable to even think straight even function at all as In do most things

Me: Well I suppose I do doc

Doc: Good I though you did

Doc to partner: So you have to do everything for him then

Partner: Yes I have to do almost everything for him

 

Doc now writes down I am a zombie for most of the day and unable to function for most part,

 

Me and partner are looking at each other thinking wth

 

MrH

[caledfwlch]

I am confused. If you went for the medical, why were you denying your medical problems? Were you trying to fail?

[MrHistory]

I am confused. If you went for the medical, why were you denying your medical problems? Were you trying to fail?

 

Not trying to fail, But the doctor was adding more to the report as in hinting that I should add this and that, As I've said don't want to go into too much detail but doctor added even more It was like the doctor was making sure I passed the medical and at the end also hinted that I have passed and have nothing to worry about.

[45002]

leemack

 

Said in his post #2

 

but from April its the only way to continue receiving cont based esa (despite the tories promising no one with disabilities would be worse off!)

What exactly are the changes the Tories bring in to ESA 2012 ?

[leemack]

Time limited cont based ESA if in the WRAG - after one year (retrospective), no more benefit if you don't qualify for income based ESA.

[45002]

Time limited cont based ESA if in the WRAG - after one year (retrospective), no more benefit if you don't qualify for income based ESA.

 

Thanks....................

[jillie424]

I had my ESA medical 2 weeks ago and have not heard anything yet. How long, on average, do they take? One thing that concerned me a lot about my medical was the nurse's continued questions about surgery I have previously had on my knee. This has nothing to do with my claim, which is on mental health grounds. So why did she spend so much time asking me, I have NEVER claimed anything because of my knee problems.

[sickovbeensick]

I had my ESA medical 2 weeks ago and have not heard anything yet. How long, on average, do they take? One thing that concerned me a lot about my medical was the nurse's continued questions about surgery I have previously had on my knee. This has nothing to do with my claim, which is on mental health grounds. So why did she spend so much time asking me, I have NEVER claimed anything because of my knee problems.

 

Hi sorry to hear your encounter with the useless atos nurse seems like they should all be sent back to uni and retrain n gain there rgn licence! It takes 2-3 wks for the decision letter to drop through your door. Mine came out of the blue imforming me id failed and my money had stopped as of the date of my WCA so was due no payment. Keep calling benefits office for update so your in the loop. If you pass then great but if u fail call cab asap, gather as much medical evidence from a psychiatrist consultant n gp and put an appeal together.HB who has helped me with great advice has amazing sticky on forum page regarding appeal letter that will help you no end. Then send all of the evidence back 2 esa theyl reinstate your assesment rate and a dm wil look at your appeal and all the suporting evidence and uphold or change the wca decision. If they uphold apply 4 tribunal hearing ask your cab rep if they can put your appeal together n come to hearing with you be prepared to wait months but were poss opt for oral hearing so u can put your side accross. Then the tribunal will apply law were its needed n hopefuly get ur award. The lengthy wait is helpful for gathering as much evidence as possible to suport your case! Try not to worry to much u may b 1 of the few lucky 1s but as u said they never realy asked about your mental health be prepared to have to fight the atos n dwp decision the atos nurse never took hn2 account or asked questions bout my hiv or mental health stuff it was as tho shed made her mind up when I walked in the room so didnt take seriously n here I am 8 months later much more poorly than when this begun and fighting my case. Dont give up tho fight it if it isnt in your favour atos r crap they shouldnt be alowed 2 decide ill peoples present n near future the systems all wrong! Best of luck I hope u pass the WCA but if you dont fight it send update of what happens

kind regards

Sobs

[taraquin]

I intend to do everything the same that I did for my first assessment. I completed the ESA50, with the least amount of info on it. Left most of the indicators blank. Obviously I knew that I would have an ATOS meeting no matter how I filled out the form, so I was not going to give them any ammunition to use against me.

 

I answered the questions put to me by the HCP with a yes or no.

 

By the time it came to appeal the 0 points, there was enough medical evidence to blow their report out of the water. In fact it made such an impact that following a complaint I put in to ATOS, the HCP was informed by his employer that his reporting was substandard and recieved a verbal warning. Additionally, ATOS had to write to the DWP to tell them that the report was so inaccurate that it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

[honeybee13]

I answered the questions put to me by the HCP with a yes or no.

 

Hello taraquin. Well done on what you've achieved, it obviously worked for you. Leemack, who was a welfare rights adviser before she became ill, has a sticky at the top of this forum about the Atos 'medical'. She advises not giving yes or no answers and how to approach the meeting.

 

Fellow caggers will need to make their own minds up.

 

My best, HB

[taraquin]

I answered the questions put to me by the HCP with a yes or no.

 

Hello taraquin. Well done on what you've achieved, it obviously worked for you. Leemack, who was a welfare rights adviser before she became ill, has a sticky at the top of this forum about the Atos 'medical'. She advises not giving yes or no answers and how to approach the meeting.

 

Fellow caggers will need to make their own minds up.

 

My best, HB

 

Hi,

After what I had read about the assessments on this site it was clear that the HCP would put down what they wanted to put down, not what you tried to explain was the problem.

 

They would not be honest, nor would they be there to take an objective view.

 

With that in mind, the less I gave them, the better it would be. As an example, the report said that I had never had a mental health condition, it said that I could walk in excess of 500 metres with no difficulty.

 

So when I sent the DWP a whole wad of medical records showing that I have been and still am, being treated for a mental health condition, and that I have a major vascular and cardiac problem that causes me to get out of breath and affects my ability to walk more than 50 metres, it made the HCP report look like a 'fairy tale'!

 

There was more to it than that, with a lot more illnesses involved.

 

But the end result was that at each turn, the whole ATOS report was totally inaccurate in every respect. None of it matched the evidence I sent in. Hence it was accepted that the HCP was found to be woefully lacking in his ability to present a report that was honest. They accepted that the DWP should place no reliance on its contents.

 

I agree that everyone should approach their assessment in the way they see fit.

 

My way was a high risk stategy, but well thought through and executed.

 

I took the view that I would fail with 0 points anyhow, no matter what actions I took. So knowing that I had nothing to lose and everything to gain. The whole process was geared to allow the HCP to fail me on every count on the basis that there was absolutely nothing wrong with me. He had no reason to justify any of his opinions as there was nothing to justify them against as there was no info on the ESA50, and I never contradicted him.

Edited September 27, 2011 by taraquin

[taraquin]

duplicate post

[Dilizjo]

What amazes me is the money the government fork out on ATOS every year and after all the mistakes they are making they are still doing the IT for our Olympic games, I shudder to think what is on the cards there.

CD I am right behind you with all my heart GO FOR IT:) and best wishes

[taraquin]

For all of the illnesses and medical conditions that exist, those have absolutely nothing to do with claiming and passing the assessment for ESA.

 

You can have a very seriously ill person with life threatening consequences, but if their abilities are such that they can carry out the descriptors, they WILL be classified as fit for work.

 

Yet you could have someone with a minor illness, the consequences of that make it impossible to carry out some of the descriptors, and they are awarded the Work or Support groups.

 

getting past the assessment has nothing to do with the diagnosis, treatment or prognosis but all to do with not being able to carry out the descriptors.

 

I would concentrate more on which descriptor fits the condition, or I should say does the condition fit any of the relevant descriptors.

 

Your condition has to be such that it ticks the right boxes!

[Gbarbm]

The thing is Tarquin, most people are honest and try there best to cope with their condition.... What they should really be doing is describing themselves on their very worst day, because that is when you really need support. Some people get relapses, some conditions are exacerbated by external factors and some conditions worsen with length of illness and age of the individual.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.

Just because someone tries to battle through their condition they should not be disadvantaged as a result over someone who knows how to play the system!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Even many years ago I was aware

that a pharmacist had been employed

to make assessments on Invalidity

Benefit claims.

CD I will support you in anything you

want to do.

Brig.

[Sea Worthy]

What amazes me is the money the government fork out on ATOS every year and after all the mistakes they are making they are still doing the IT for our Olympic games, I shudder to think what is on the cards there.

 

Atos has been doing the IT for the olympic games for the 12 years, so your trust is misplaced. Quite what the olympics has to do with a medical assessment is beyond me.

[Nystagmite]

What amazes me is the money the government fork out on ATOS every year

 

Which could instead go to sorting out the state of the benefits system, NHS, etc.

[Dilizjo]

Atos has been doing the IT for the olympic games for the 12 years, so your trust is misplaced. Quite what the olympics has to do with a medical assessment is beyond me.

 

No I don't feel my trust is misplaced at all the funding and resources wasted on these assessments should as Nystagmite says be put to sorting out the benefit system etc and I certainly would not pay anybody £xxxxxxxxxxxx for any service they provide with the wide history of mistakes that ATOS have made.

[ianheadland]

Caledfwlch...what are the rules about Dr's working for ATOS? The guy that saw me is a registered Dr for Boston Hospital i think?

[caledfwlch]

Caledfwlch...what are the rules about Dr's working for ATOS? The guy that saw me is a registered Dr for Boston Hospital i think?

 

I don't know about specific rules, but making "fraudulent" reports, and omitting stuff and so on is a no no - imagine for example, if a nurse omitted important stuff from a patients file when working on a ward, because a manager wanted to save time, the nurse could very well lose her job.

 

Pressure from higher up's cannot be an "excuse" with medical professionals, the buck stops with them.

 

The GMC is currently investigating 12 Doctor's who work for ATOS!!!

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/aug/13/atos-doctors-improper-conduct-disability

 

The charge is "improper conduct" something the Nurse in this thread seems to have done. A registered Nurse and Doctor must always put the needs of the patient first, not the needs of their employer, or any target "demands"

 

There are also problems with ATOS using Doctor's who are not registered, and thus "not fit" to work in the UK. Another big no no.