Ingeus

[Blondmusic]

few weeks ago at working links (triage) i herd this young lad saying he had a interview at McDonald's, the job centre told him they had no money for him to get clothing for his interview, he asked at the open access bit for job search about getting help and the triage employee said they have no funding for this also

 

I recently got a job interview at a national chain, I asked Triage for help with clothing as I had no smart clothes to wear (11 years raising my child). The advisor said that I must have something, I replied I have jeans, t-shirts and trainers. She sounded shocked when I said I had no shoes (can't afford them let alone find some to fit my wide feet). She referred me to the Jobcentre who told me it was Triage's responsibility. Advisor said she would talk to head office then call me back. When she called me back she said they could allocate £13!!!!! I asked what was I supposed to get out of that and she replied you will have to go to a charity shop!!

 

My disabled father was so disgusted when I told him that he offered to pay for a suit for my interview on the understanding I do not get anything for christmas this year.

[Nystagmite]

I asked what was I supposed to get out of that and she replied you will have to go to a charity shop!!

 

That's assuming you can find something suitable at a charity shop...

[flumps1976]

In that circumastance I would honestly recommend following the complaints procedure as they are paid (for te moment) a "sign up" fee to help towards the initial set up which is to be used towards reiumbursing travel costs for you to attend their appointments, training courses and clothing.

Out local providers to be the best of my knowledge utislise Matalan for items for interview clothing and also shoes. If you have specialist requiremebnts e.g you need the extra long trousers, extra wide, petite range or have specialist footwear requirements they are supposed to look at that individually.

They will also look at your individual cicumstances and if you have income from elsewhere or savings they can ask you to access those funds instead. The fund is available but still discretionary and unfortunately some are not using the discretion as everyone would like them to.

[Blondmusic]

Oh I have complained. I am in the middle of writing it now. I also wrote to my local MP to highlight this scandal.

 

Luckily I did get the job though so I am very happy. I don't think I would have got the job without my smart suit bought by my dad.

[Flickyhecky]

I've only been to Ingeus twice now, first time was the initial interview thing, then they tweaked with my CV and printed some copies off (managed to give a few to some places i was interested in!)

 

Seeing their mental health person at some stage, and next week they are doing a BOC (Better Off Calculation), they go through my financial situation and work of if i'll be better off once in work, all sounds too good to be true at the moment.

 

Also, thanks to reading this beforehand i told them that i have no clothes for interviews, they assured me that it will be sorted out nearer the time.

 

Noticed on the wall a huge chart which looks like a point scoring system for the staff...what's that all about?

[flumps1976]

They all have individual as well as team targets on how many clients they help back into the work place. The provider is paid a "reward" for each client they help back to work even if tey actually had no input whatsoever in the job application, interview and offer :o The longer you stay in work the more they are paid too, as you are contracted to them for a 2 year period.

[TheDudeAbides]

Very interesting thread, I just signed up with the sole intention of bumping it and getting the discussion going again.

 

Today was my first appointment with this mob and I've to go back in for a cold calling session on Thursday where I will be working with a group of folk on the same boat as myself where we phone up and apply for jobs, who would have thought it could be so easy ? These guys are worth every penny they are getting.

 

My new best mate (well for the next 4 weeks apparently) will find me a job and if by some unforeseen circumstance this doesn't happen then I'll be passed on to some other lovely caring person who wants to help me. Things are looking up.

 

He also booked me in for a "mandatory" work group session in a fortnight called Job Search Methods which I was told will last for two hours.

 

Still, least I got my bus fare back...

 

Anyway, I've had reservations since I was told I was going on this programme a few weeks back and just found this place while doing a search on google, be interested to hear how everyone has been coping with this outfit since the previous posts.

[Blondmusic]

I'm glad to be shot of the idiots. One thing does worry me though. Now I have got a job (finally) I got passed on to a Work Consultant who said they are going to phone my new boss to see how Im settling in. What has it got to do with them? I have a job, I am no longer claiming benefits so therefore they should not be interfering with my life. Is there anything I can use to tell em to bog off and let me enjoy my new job in peace?

[flumps1976]

Don't tell them where you are starting or categiorically state that you do not wish them to contact your new employers and yuo do not give consent for them to do so. They will continue to call you of course and they may even try to contact the JCP to determine where you started but you don't have to provide that information if you complete your ES40 you can simply state found work, yes will last over 5 weeks and state that you donot wish to disclose the company as you do not want the provider to now and make contact for personal reasons.

That is perfectly acceptable and we have a lot of people doing this at the JCP where I work

[bbest]

TheDudeAbides

 

I initially posted on this thread some time ago just as I had received my letter to attend Ingeus because I was worried about false sanctions and the like because I knew nothing about any system as I had not been unemployed for years beforehand.

 

I thought about the way to handle this for a long time before I got to the interview and decided as I am an older professional type I would speak to the person involved in the manner of a fellow professional also making that person aware that I was totally aware of my data rights etc.

 

So after assessing the person when I got there I spoke along these sort of lines. I am not happy about being in this position because I have worked all my life and this is the first time I have ever been out of work for such a time ( which is true) I informed him in my opinion that it must be my age because I had all the necessary experience and qualifications to do my job perfectly correctly.

 

He agreed that age does play a part and went on to ask for my CV where I informed him I would sent it to him by e-mail however whilst I recognised they had some of my personal details I would not agree to my CV being forwarded or my home telephone number which is ex directory and registered with the telephone preference service being passed around without my knowledge. He agreed to that and also agreed to put it in writing to me in an e-mail. (which he did later) and true to his word he never sent my CV or telephone number to anyone without calling me and asking my permission first.

 

He then asked me if I required any help with my CV I said no because I paid for this CV writing as it is and that it had been looked over by several job centre style departments and they could find nothing they wanted to change.

 

He then asked me about looking for work outside my own area of expertise and I told him I was doing that as well changing my CV without lying to enhance some skills over others however the feedback I received was that it was felt I would only use a job as a stepping stone and leave soon as I found something better within my own industry.

 

He then said it appeared there was little more he could do because I had it all covered and that he would see me once a fortnight sometimes longer where we could catch up etc.

 

I asked him what was available in the area with regards employment and he said not much I have a few contacts and will root around for you.

 

He asked me if I wanted to use there computers to search for work or the telephone I said no thanks I have 24/7 broadband and any time land line calling package at home.

 

When I got home I forwarded him and e-mail with a legal disclaimer and my CV. He sent me a return e-mail with the weekly report form re my job seeking activities which I used to e-mail back to him on a weekly basis.

 

I spent around 2 months going to see him in all before I became ill and had to claim ESA which is worse in my opinion-) he told me during that time he would not put me through to any non paying employment as he believed I deserved better so I was lucky but I also truly believe that if you have everything in place and can do no more re your job search then there is nothing they can pick on you for because you have done everything possible. plus if you make them aware that you do know your rights and you will do something about anything you are unhappy about without coming across as aggressive I am sure they will recognise that you mean what you say and that it could be more trouble than its worth.

 

Strangely enough as I was later taken off JSA and placed on ESA so I rang him to explain what was happening and to keep him in the loop which has also paid off because if I am placed in the work related group he will also be my advisor again and he told me if you say you cannot work I am going to do very little because its not worth it because I feel I know you well enough to tell me when you feel you can go back to work and then I will help you as much and I can from that point.

 

So now I am in the position of being terrified by the ESA process but at least if I am placed in the work group I am not worried about my advisor as I already know him-)

 

Just a last peeve about ESA. When you go onto ESA and are waiting for your consultants and treatment plans etc it gives no time for actually getting well before you are thrown into yet another system that is not helpful if you are trying to get well under difficult circumstances. If I had not known my workplace advisor beforehand I would now be worrying more about that than getting well as the system is designed to say you are not ill when you really are. Its disgraceful.

 

Oh and I also record all telephone calls and meetings and store everything on my computer and in date written order format.

[viper2kuk]

Yesterday I was informed that I'll be moving onto the job search section of the programme in southport. I already do extensive job searches and I also provide them with the details of the positions I've applied for. I was told that they know this but it was mandatory that I turn up for an hour to do this.

 

I was then informed that i'd be outsourced to another business in either crosby / bootle and that I'd start on the employment side (which I assume will be the voluntary work) and here's my questions:

 

1. Who has presedence over me - My Job Seekers Agreement or Ingeus

2. If I am actively seeking work and attending interviews do I have to do the job search element - of which I have already told my adviser that there is nothing more here that I can do than what I'm already doing.

3. I have decided that I won't use the computers within Ingeus as I'm sure that if any username / passwords used by me / any other user could be monitored and logged through the use of key logging software or similar applications and then allow ingeus to remotely monitor my job searches, would this be a breach of the contract between myself and Ingeus?

4. The Voluntary Work Programme - do they match you to a position suitable to your skill set. i.e. My primary skill set is in IT and secondary is in Admin. Could Ingeus place me in a restaurant / gardening / Community Work / other arena and class that as voluntary?

5. If I'm placed in an area outside of my skill set can I refuse to do the placement?

6. I was not informed of any complaints procedure, so what is the procedure and how would I go about finding out.

7. As I was signing the initial contract I did have reservations about them contacting my future employer to enquire about my situation - how can I go about revoking this and is there a time limit for revoking this mandate?

8. What are your rights as an individual with regards to the Ingeus Contract?

 

Anyway this is a great and very informative thread and I hope to hear from you all soon as I'll keep you updated on what happens to me.

[Nystagmite]

I am with Tomorrow's People. They are awful. I've received no additional help in job searching and was told to go on to ESA - never mind that for the first 13 weeks / longer, I'm going to be almost £30 a week worse off; as there's no extra money for disability.

[Raven1]

I started this thread six months ago and it's nice to see it's still helping people! I endorse a lot of what has been said here, particularly relating to cutting Ingeus out of your life when you find a job.

 

The main advice is don't tell Ingeus when you find a job - no matter how tempting it might be to do so! They're parasites, treat them as such, they don't need to know anything.

 

Sign off without giving a reason - all you need to provide is an end date for your claim, the DWP aren't interested beyond that and it even says on the form that you don't have to complete the rest.

 

If you get any calls from Ingeus simply do not engage with them. They are not your friends, they are not phoning to congratulate you, they are calling to probe for the information they need to claim payment for finding you a job. Don't give it to them or even admit that you have found one. Simply confirm that you are no longer claiming and replace the receiver.

 

Then write to them (via recorded delivery) and instruct them to completely remove your telephone number from their systems. Treat them as you would anyone else making harassing and unwanted phone calls. In fact I would go so far as to instruct them to remove ALL your data from their systems because you have never authorised them to process it, consent gained under duress has no legal validity.

 

As I am sure you are aware whilst you are there Ingeus look upon you as a source for * leads*, and to this end they will ask you for an account of your job hunting activities, basically the same thing you provide to the job centre.

 

I queried why they needed this and was advised they needed to know 'what sort of things I was doing to find work' naturally I agreed to provide them with a copy of my job search record ( I do a spread sheet on my laptop and print it out each fortnight) HOWEVER Ingeus got a copy with all the company names and any other identifying data blanked out.

 

I explained that I had very serious data protection concerns as the companies involved had not given me their consent to pass their details to Ingeus, and in any case I was sure they would contact Ingeus themselves if they wanted to use them.

 

So we had three months of farce where I dutifully passed on my job search record with the information they *really* wanted blanked out in solid black blocks and not one darn thing they could do about it.

 

Agree with the above poster who says you should make it clear from the outset that you can and will complain about any inappropriate behaviour.

 

Quite frankly the Data Protection Act is your best friend when dealing with Ingeus

Edited December 7, 2011 by Raven1
typos etc

[Paul_507]

hello everybody

 

ive been with ingues in the north west for just under two months now and all they have done is update my resume and nothing else

 

they have told me to apply for jobs that need certificates which i dont have

 

rang a recruitment agency on monday and got a interview which was on tuesday and today is my induction and if succesful i start on friday

 

havent told the job centre or ingues until i get it

 

rang the job centre yesterday to see if i could get work clothes (steel toe cap shoes, trousers, and bright over shirt) and they told me to ring my advisor at ingues and i didnt call them

 

i asked at my first interview with ingues do they offer any support with training and work clothes and they said no

 

so im going to be out of pocket for £50 but lucky i got my jobseekers allowance on thursday

 

ingues are worser than a4e

 

im on my fourth ingues advisor

[rockywest]

Good thread... I've got my first interview with them coming up in a couple of weeks in Newcastle.

Simple question:

Do I have to sign the contract? Am I legally obliged? I can't imagine I am.

After reading the Data Protection-related posts here, would it it not be better for me not to sign anything?

It would possibly appear that signing stuff with them simply gives them carte blanche to tread all over one's privacy, contact employers, share one's details etc.. - surely sanctioning is only applicable if one refuses a job interview etc.?

Not signing a form - surely they couldn't sanction one for that?

Also - I had the impression that the poster flumps1976 perhaps worked in some capacity for the DWP. Could they (or somebody else) perhaps advise me as to how to sign off A/ making sure I still get the one-month run-on etc., whilst B/ simultaneously making sure that Ignoramus Inc. don't get any credit?

 

Thanks in advance

[flumps1976]

If you refuse to participate with the providers they wil refer your case for a decision to consider the payability of future payments of JSA. These sanctions range from 2 weeks initially to the maximum of 26 weeks if a client refuses to engage with the provider so by refusing to sign any paperwork with the providers you are in effect refusing to engage with them.

 

With regards to help with the costs of interview clothes the providers are currently paid a sign up fee from the government to be able to provide help wih travel costs, courses and help with items to remove barriers that are potentialy preventing you from entering the workforce (such as no suitable interview clothing or even needing a haircut or alarm clock), the vast majority of providers begrudge paying this money out for anything and will try to fob clients off by saying no without providing a reason to back it up, so I would advise requesting a copy of the complaints procedure and requesting the help again.

 

If you don't specify when you close your claim to the JCP office that you are starting work of 16 or more hours per week expected to last 5 weeks or more then you will not qualify for the help with the job grant and other run on payments with housing costs.

You could write a letter to the JCP Manager stating that you feel aggrieved that the providers will be paid for you finding work whe they have not helped in the slightest but unfortunately they will still be paid (it may lead to the contracts being tightened up so that the poviders have to show that they did help to secure the offer of employment to be paid in the future).

Even when you end your cliam as you are placed with that provider for a 2 year period they will continue to attempt to contact yu on a regular basis too to enquire if you are still working as the longer you stay in employment the bigger the payment they recive. You do not have to speak to them of course! You can change you contact numbers etc tey can't do anything about that

 

Yes you are correct, I am a customer service adviser for JCP.

[rockywest]

Thanks very much for that...

A very articulate and helpful adviser at that.

I wasn't asking about clothing, but I understand it is perhaps relevant.

I was told that these "providers" are only getting a basic "admin" fee from the Gov, so I can see how they're sort of sales-based.

My basic question was really this:

 

I am willing to take part.

Willing to go to job-hunting workshops.

Willing to have CV writing lessons

Willing to go along to interviews etc.

 

I just don't want to sign a contract that gives away any of my privacy for the next 2 years (or gives away my rights to privacy anytime)

In fact, I don't really want to sign anything.

Can I take part as above, but not sign anything?

Am I legally obliged to sign some kind of contract?

If I was an employer and took somebody on (and let's say hypothetically that person was promoted in 8 months time, so they're now a manager of some kind), it would be very irritating to keep getting calls from some private company about my excellent, loyal employee.

If I was the employee, it would be irritating and embarrassing to be rung up or emailed by this company regularly over the next 2 years. After all, if one were to be cynical, all those contacts would essentially be them just checking on their potential cash prize at the end of the 2 years - checking on their "investment", if you will.

It would almost be amusing to ring them in 23 months and 3 weeks time to tell them that you had left the job...

Again, if I employed somebody and this firm kept ringing up, it would possibly give the impression that the new employee needed babysitting, and that he / she was a liability in some way.

 

I simply don't need this in my future career.

So I figured if I could somehow not sign anything, then I've not given any consent.

Thanks in advance again...

[flumps1976]

As far as I am aware if you refuse to sign their documents they will refer you to DMA for refusing to engage with the programme.

You will be issued with paperwork at the JCP to mandate you to the Work Programme and I'm not sure what those papers detail exactly as I have not had need to read them previously as I am not involved in the actual referal to Work Programme process.

As the providers want to be paid they will contact both you and your employers (if they know who you are actually employed by of course) you do not have to tell them and I would suggest writing a letter to attach to your ES40 to state that you do not wish the providers to be advised who you are employed by. You can also refuse to answer calls from them as it is your phone and you choose who you speak to after all

You are mandated to these provides for a period of 2 years and they are contracted to make contact with you every 3 months (either in writing or by phone) to determine that you are still employed so they claim their next reward payment.

[rockywest]

Right.

Cheers for that.

I guess my issue is two-fold. I just ain't happy with:

A/

These "providers" crashing in on my right to privacy

B/

The idea of being regularly "checked up on" (essentially because they to want guarantee their money).

However, if they help me get a job, cool!

So to conclude - sure, find me some work. Then bugger off.

 

Thanks again flumps1976!

[Paul_507]

just a update guys and girls

 

passed my induction on wednesday afternoon and they told me they will ring me either thursday or friday

 

signed of from the job centre and ingues on thursday only to find out that ingues had phoned the recruitment agency and told them something and i didnt get the job

so i have to resign back on this monday

 

ingues is a load of crap

[YorkyLad]

I got a letter from Analingus today having signed off several weeks ago. Handed in my book to JC just having given last date of claim, signed and ticked the box confirming I expected the employment to last 5 weeks or more.

 

The letter was telling me that there is £75 available to me, "to transfer directly into my bank account"

 

Great! However there have been severe short comings with Ingeus' math ability when it came to what to what I would get when I signed off. I'll come to that shortly....

 

The start of the letter:

 

Dear Yorkylad

 

RE: Financial Support and in Work Support

 

First of all, congratulations on securing employment - I hope your job is going really well.

 

I just wanted to write regarding your return to work. As the jobcentre had refered you to Ingeus before you started work, we are able to provide some financial support for any initial in work costs (travel/clothing/etc)

 

There is £75 avaliable to to you which I am able to transfer directly into your bank account, all we need is for you to complete the two attached forms required by the jobcentre. This can be sorted immediately and paid into your account within three working days.

 

Ok... All I have to do is fill in two forms and I will get £75. It's the 'Information Disclosure' and 'Consent to Share Information' forms. I thought for £75 I would in fact sign them knowing that they have no idea where i'm working and how to get hold of any possible employer i may have.

 

However our idea of "all we need" and their's is two different things because filling out the two forms I dont want to fill out will not get me any much needed help getting back into employment! The letter goes on:

 

The only additional information we would need would be name, address and contact details of your employer

 

given that (in my advisers words) 99% of people have already signed those forms (later he went on to say on tape I was the only person he knew in all his experience who had ever not signed them) they are in fact offering £75 for the contact details of your next employer not for the signing of the two forms.

 

So i'm in a position now where I will lose the much needed help I was teased with today because I will not give that information away. More concerning is that should I decide to employ somebody in the coming weeks, months and years my personal information, contact details etc will be compromised should I employ somebody who is on a work programme. This is due to them been paid (or punished with financial help restricted if they refuse) to give my contact details (as their employer) away against my will!

 

Anyway any aspirations of sustaining employment are dying quickly. What Ingeus said I would get when I started work in regards to financial help and the reality are very different. The reality is Ingeus were telling me I would get payments that later I have been informed by letter I will not get.

 

I was told I would get £200 back to work bonus. Ended up been £100.

 

I was told I would get Housing benefit run on. Letter here saying that is not the case (i'm thinking because although on JSA for more than 12 months I have only been on Housing Benefit for 7 months... I need to look into this).

 

I was told there would additional financial help when I got into work. Yup that has been determined to be conditional in today's letter. Conditions I cannot meet so no help there either.

 

Laughably, into this calculation, my advisor told me that it is common for people to ask their new employers for their wages in advance if they need help to get them into the employment. Although I'm sure this may happen once or twice here and there any major employer or company is just going to laugh at you if you was to ask this and my thinking is this is not going to give the best impression to your new employer. However, far be it for me, to question the advice of Ingeus.

 

Needless to say 'Jimmy Hoffa Allowance' was not included in my back of envelope budget calculation to see if I could survive on what I would receive from the work I would undertake and the financial help I was told to expect.

 

Also I had hoped the DWP would square up with me to but sadly they are still holding a £130 payment from April. Please can I have it? (This was withheld from me as punishment for not giving 'working bank details' even though I had!!! The DWP were too lazy to look up which two letters needed inserting in before my account number)

 

So that's where I am now. Struggling because I Have received about 1/4 of the financial support I was told to expect.

 

THANKS!! SEE YOU SOON INGEUS!!!

[osdset]

I had a similar experience with reed in partnership, I was placed with them for 12 weeks, in that time they:

Lost my full birth certificate

Lost my passport application

Lost my passport photos

They insisted I needed a passport and said they would fund it, the advisor didn't even apply for the funding.

I had a total of six advisors, the first one left due to no promotion prospects, the next one interviewed me once and promptly went sick, the third saw me twice then was moved to a different department, the fourth left the job on the day of my appointment, the fifth was taken off my case after I complained about her gross rudeness and incompetence, the sixth was ok until she insisted that I attended every day (it was once a week with the others) I managed to get out of that as it was two weeks to the end of the placement so I took my two week holiday entitlement, they weren't happy but could do nothing about it apart from conveniently forgetting to pay me the last fortnights money, it took me three weeks to get it out of them, they kept blaming the DWP for not completing paperwork, which I knew for a fact was a lie.

 

Reed's office was a complete joke half the computers were defunct in some way, job searches were limited to their 'approved' sites, the only newspaper supplied was the free London Metro, no tea coffee making facility's just a water butt, no where to sit and have lunch, pretty dreadful all round.

There was a definite culture of how much have Reed earned this week? And zero commitment to getting anyone a suitable, sustainable job.

 

I ended up making a complaint to my MP, about their incompetence and the fact that no one would address my lost documents, she got straight on to Reed's CEO then the apology letters started to arrive with a promise to fund replacements for the lost documents, and excuses about poor service. THREE MONTHS LATER I wrote to Reed's CEO and threatened him with the small claims court as I had received nothing, the cheque was in the post recorded delivery two days later.

All these providers are parasites the whole set up is one big con, talk to anyone sensible at the jobcentre about Reed, Ingeus, or any of the clones and you will see plenty of shrugs, and eye rolling, even they recognise that these companies are useless at what they are being paid for.

[rockywest]

Well YorkyLad has just confirmed my concerns about these "providers".

Wonder whether one could simply give them fake employer details?

Also agree with him re: employer contact details. Could be quite a few small firms out there that really won't like the idea of Government-contracted private companies systematically checking up on them , and one could imagine that the prospect of this may actually put them off the new employee.

The idea that your new worker needs babysitting by these "providers" surely doesn't look good? If I was an employer (I have been in the past) I would not sanction this kind of snooping for financial gain - especially if I was running a busy company. Imagine trying to steer a company, and meanwhile getting calls like this:

 

"Hello, it's Wayne from Ignorameus: just wanted to see how little Johnny is getting on. Is he turning up for work regularly? Do you envisage employing him for the next year? We'd like to know..."

 

Seriously - f**k that!

I'll forgo the £75. I just don't need these people snooping into my life. ; )

[rockywest]

Yep, osdset - exactly the same eye-rolling response I've seen by staff at DWP when discussing these "providers"...

Gotta kick against them. They certainly aren't getting any employer details off me, and they can stuff their 75 pieces of silver.

[osdset]

Well YorkyLad has just confirmed my concerns about these "providers".

Wonder whether one could simply give them fake employer details?

Also agree with him re: employer contact details. Could be quite a few small firms out there that really won't like the idea of Government-contracted private companies systematically checking up on them , and one could imagine that the prospect of this may actually put them off the new employee.

The idea that your new worker needs babysitting by these "providers" surely doesn't look good? If I was an employer (I have been in the past) I would not sanction this kind of snooping for financial gain - especially if I was running a busy company. Imagine trying to steer a company, and meanwhile getting calls like this:

 

"Hello, it's Wayne from Ignorameus: just wanted to see how little Johnny is getting on. Is he turning up for work regularly? Do you envisage employing him for the next year? We'd like to know..."

 

Seriously - f**k that!

I'll forgo the £75. I just don't need these people snooping into my life. ; )

I wonder if the £75 is still payable if you went self employed? They could phone you up as much as they want, 'yes I went in today, I've given myself a pay rise! I will definitely be employing me for the foreseeable future' lol