Ingeus

[john27]

proper gutted - i thought when you finished your 2-year stint at ingeus you'd just go back on the dole - i had no idea about this "post work programme support" stuff

 

apparently it involves mandatory work placements, signing on once a week and for some people, seeing an advisor every day. how depressing

[jasta11]

Not necessarily, John - it seems to depend a lot on each Jobcentre and the individual advisor; some people get more or less left alone while others seem to be more 'targeted' (for want of a better word).

 

According to the guidance, if the JC think you're doing all you reasonably can to find work, then they class you as 'BAU' (Business As Usual), meaning you just carry on signing on with maybe the odd interview with your personal advisor for the six month duration of the Post Work Program. As you say though, they can get you on MWP and make you come in more often, though I think this actually depends upon how busy the individual JC is - if they're really snowed under with clients then hopefully they won't ask you in so often. Pot luck really.

 

If you're about to finish the WP and start this Post Work Program soon, best advice I can give is to really look as though you're looking for work, give the JC loads of evidence regarding your jobsearch, have a good cv, cover letter, etc already done and hopefully they won't need to send you on stupid courses or see you too often, nor will they increase your jobsearch activity too much (however, they WILL increase it; it's just the amount that can vary).

 

Getting a decent, sensible advisor is half the battle. Pot luck again.

[john27]

thanks jasta11, good stuff - i finish my ingeus sentence in about 5 months, so i'll keep that in mind

 

the lady i spoke to recently when i signed on mentioned that in accordance with new rules, the jobcentre will be getting tougher on jobseekers. has anyone heard anything about this? doesn't sound like good news - the pittance we're given to live on is stressful enough

Edited September 12, 2013 by john27

[Chester6]

thanks jasta11, good stuff - i finish my ingeus sentence in about 5 months, so i'll keep that in mind

 

the lady i spoke to recently when i signed on mentioned that in accordance with new rules, the jobcentre will be getting tougher on jobseekers. has anyone heard anything about this? doesn't sound like good news - the pittance we're given to live on is stressful enough

I dunno about the jobcentre as a whole but the advisers after the WP who are upstairs locally are [pejorative term removed], they love the word 'sanction', they also whine about wanting more details and whinge they need UJM access

Edited September 12, 2013 by honeybee13
Removing abuse of staff.

[honeybee13]

Chester, I have edited your post and would refer you to post #4292 by CitizenB very recently please.

 

Personal abuse is not on.

 

HB

[Chester6]

Chester, I have edited your post and would refer you to post #4292 by CitizenB very recently please.

 

Personal abuse is not on.

 

HB

Sorry - I forgot

How do you describe someone who is interested in every little word and detail that they miss what I perceive as the bigger picture? They whine about stuff that was accepted by the advisers downstairs, now I have been told I could be sanctioned for not including the subject of e-mail alerts in the box on the book

They are trying to find the smallest thing to sanction over unfortunately, jobseeking and showing it isn't enough for them

[citizenB]

Chester, have a read of the earlier posts by Raven1 - post # 3 onwards.

 

You do not have to resort to abusive adjectives to describe these "advisors".

 

If you are being threatened with Sanctions unfairly, then put in a complaint. If the advisor is nit picking on irrelevancies, put in a complaint.

 

I cant pretend to understand what you and others are going through, from what I read, you do all have good reason to feel frustrated and want to rant.. but please try to keep the language under control

[honeybee13]

Sorry - I forgot

How do you describe someone who is interested in every little word and detail that they miss what I perceive as the bigger picture? They whine about stuff that was accepted by the advisers downstairs, now I have been told I could be sanctioned for not including the subject of e-mail alerts in the box on the book

They are trying to find the smallest thing to sanction over unfortunately, jobseeking and showing it isn't enough for them

 

Pedantic.

 

HB

[Chester6]

Pedantic.

 

HB

 

Accurate without the insult

It'll do

Thanks

[RebeccaPidgeon]

thanks jasta11, good stuff - i finish my ingeus sentence in about 5 months, so i'll keep that in mind

 

the lady i spoke to recently when i signed on mentioned that in accordance with new rules, the jobcentre will be getting tougher on jobseekers. has anyone heard anything about this? doesn't sound like good news - the pittance we're given to live on is stressful enough

Last occasion I visited the JCP Office to sign on, I overheard a conversation between a FLA (member of the Hit Squad) and another candidate who, in reviewing their Job Diary (sadly, within Universal Job Match), insisted on counting out each vacancy that they applied for on day 1, counting each vacancy they applied for on day 2 etc etc

 

And then following through "So, on day_1 you applied for 5 vacancies. On day_2, you applied for 3 vacancies" etc . Mid conversation, the FLA left the candidate sitting at the desk, moved across the floor, and spoke to someone, before returning some minutes later.

 

The Hit Squad Tables are next to the ordinary signing on desks.... so, the most generous description that can be attributed is "Psychological Warfare", both for the candidate who left the WP and potential candidates who are likely to leave a few months later. However, that was simply one FLA, and another may have an entirely different attitude in dealing with claimants.

 

 

Sorry - I forgot

How do you describe someone who is interested in every little word and detail that they miss what I perceive as the bigger picture? They whine about stuff that was accepted by the advisers downstairs, now I have been told I could be sanctioned for not including the subject of e-mail alerts in the box on the book

They are trying to find the smallest thing to sanction over unfortunately, jobseeking and showing it isn't enough for them

 

I wont specify the Scientific Term lest it offend someone, but Simund Freud used a term of describe the personality of someone who would "obsess with detail to the annoyance of others, and to their own detriment". Part of the problem is down to the Recruitment Practises of the DWP who insist that potential recruits obsess with detail, obsess with rule based behaviour, and who presume that the existing system is perfect. It stifles innovation, but as the DWP admit to candidates, when they offer you a job, they require you to spend at least 6 months in the current role, cant apply for any Higher Grade, and this is to prevent the system from changing.

Edited September 13, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[honeybee13]

Rebecca, I've just removed words that were unapproved earlier by the team in Chester's post.

 

I hope you understand the reason for this, but if you don't please refer to CitizenB's posts above.

 

HB

[Chester6]

Last occasion I visited the JCP Office to sign on, I overheard a conversation between a FLA (member of the Hit Squad) and another candidate who, in reviewing their Job Diary (sadly, within Universal Job Match), insisted on counting out each vacancy that they applied for on day 1, counting each vacancy they applied for on day 2 etc etc

 

And then following through "So, on day_1 you applied for 5 vacancies. On day_2, you applied for 3 vacancies" etc . Mid conversation, the FLA left the candidate sitting at the desk, moved across the floor, and spoke to someone, before returning some minutes later.

 

The Hit Squad Tables are next to the ordinary signing on desks.... so, the most generous description that can be attributed is "Psychological Warfare", both for the candidate who left the WP and potential candidates who are likely to leave a few months later. However, that was simply one FLA, and another may have an entirely different attitude in dealing with claimants.

 

That doesn't surprise me

Mine is one of the nicer ones, at the course I found out about a guy who is extremely 'pedantic' and who would love to sanction someone for the smallest detail.

The two week course I was on had at least 10 from the previous quota sanctioned for non-attendance

[RebeccaPidgeon]

That doesn't surprise me

Mine is one of the nicer ones, at the course I found out about a guy who is extremely 'pedantic' and who would love to sanction someone for the smallest detail.

The two week course I was on had at least 10 from the previous quota sanctioned for non-attendance

If you wish to clarify anything arising from your experience, or that which you have heard, within Job Centre Plus, submit the query to [email protected]

 

Was the two week course of any benefit to you, was it delivered by someone competent and qualified,?

 

It just occured to me that the JCP FLA Adviser which I referred to may have watched (or still be watching) Sesame Street, with the role model being "The Count".

[Chester6]

The course was delivered by the local college, but the jobcentre says you must be there 9-5mon to thurs but 9-430 on Friday, you aren't let out even if you complete the work so there's a lot if time where you are twiddling your thumbs, apparently the course is meant to be like doing a job?? So why not the equivalent pay??

The course was tedious but basic, mostly repetitions on the cv and interview stuff that was already covered repeatedly including on the WP but I got told people are doing it so the adviser gets feedback and cos when you are on the dole there are strangers who I have never met who get bad with money?? There was a bank holiday and still the course was too long in my opinion

A tutor was in trouble with the jobcentre for advising an unemployed dad not to apply for a job as he would lose out on money and the tutor was the one who taught budgeting, I don't see the course as useful, it was extremely basic

 

Somebody wanted it to learn basic net use etc and the adviser at he jobcentre claimed he would but the adviser was wrong about that too - unsurprisingly

Edited September 13, 2013 by Chester6
more info

[RebeccaPidgeon]

The course was delivered by the local college, but the jobcentre says you must be there 9-5mon to thurs but 9-430 on Friday, you aren't let out even if you complete the work so there's a lot if time where you are twiddling your thumbs, apparently the course is meant to be like doing a job?? So why not the equivalent pay??

The course was tedious but basic, mostly repetitions on the cv and interview stuff that was already covered repeatedly including on the WP but I got told people are doing it so the adviser gets feedback and cos when you are on the dole there are strangers who I have never met who get bad with money?? There was a bank holiday and still the course was too long in my opinion

A tutor was in trouble with the jobcentre for advising an unemployed dad not to apply for a job as he would lose out on money and the tutor was the one who taught budgeting, I don't see the course as useful, it was extremely basic

 

Somebody wanted it to learn basic net use etc and the adviser at he jobcentre claimed he would but the adviser was wrong about that too - unsurprisingly

At least the course was delivered by a College.... and therefore it was likely to be delivered by someone qualified. Within the Flexible New Deal you could be sent onto a baloneous course, delivered by A4E or Working Links, and share a kindergarten class (or at least the facade of a Kindergarten Class), with ex offenders, those with abuse issues, and not simply unemployed Professionals etc.

 

As long as you attend the course, I think that a key document will be The Register - however, I am not sure whether, unless someone on the course signs a Data Protection Waiver, that any adviser can expect to get feedback... whereas candidates may invoke their rights under the Data Protection Act for any personal information outside of the course to be restricted (ie what stays in the classroom, stays within the classroom).

[Chester6]

At least the course was delivered by a College.... and therefore it was likely to be delivered by someone qualified. Within the Flexible New Deal you could be sent onto a baloneous course, delivered by A4E or Working Links, and share a kindergarten class (or at least the facade of a Kindergarten Class), with ex offenders, those with abuse issues, and not simply unemployed Professionals etc.

 

As long as you attend the course, I think that a key document will be The Register - however, I am not sure whether, unless someone on the course signs a Data Protection Waiver, that any adviser can expect to get feedback... whereas candidates may invoke their rights under the Data Protection Act for any personal information outside of the course to be restricted (ie what stays in the classroom, stays within the classroom).

 

Most course at my local Ingeus were either with them or with Learndirect - the local learndirect are useless and some have no people skills including a lady now employed by the ingeus sub group!!

The people on the course are selected at random and not by any useful criteria such as ability, second week I was there 5 tutors were required for the other group as they had less ability then the group I was in, the shallow first tutor told us about how previously there was a group of ex-offenders with tattoos and then she found that they were nice people underneath (need a sick-bag emoticon for that as it was such a shallow thing to say about people)

The feed-back was attendance and attitude I think - I'm not sure as I have had none gave to me yet - next signing on maybe?

Plus they were on about nosy employers moseying at Facebook and claimed people should be wary of this, so now your facebook needs to be job-friendly?????? (My term)

Edited September 13, 2013 by Chester6

[mr_mastiff]

That doesn't surprise me

Mine is one of the nicer ones, at the course I found out about a guy who is extremely 'pedantic' and who would love to sanction someone for the smallest detail.

The two week course I was on had at least 10 from the previous quota sanctioned for non-attendance

 

Perhaps a better description of this person was that he had a narcisstic personality structure.

[Mr.P]

Within the Flexible New Deal you could be sent onto a baloneous course, delivered by A4E or Working Links, and share a kindergarten class

 

Got shown a list of those "courses" and highlighted an eight week course in basic english spelling and grammar - Suggested that some of the A4e staff would benefit more from that particular activity than the majority of their clients.

[Paulo83]

The DWP love to waste paper, whole forests have disappeared to satisfy their insatiable need.

 

Tell me about it! I received another two letters today, one dated 09/09 and one dated 10/09 telling me that the doubt no longer exists. Again, both four-page letters with the "disagreeing with a decision" booklet enclosed. What an absolute waste.

[osdset]

Tell me about it! I received another two letters today, one dated 09/09 and one dated 10/09 telling me that the doubt no longer exists. Again, both four-page letters with the "disagreeing with a decision" booklet enclosed. What an absolute waste.

 

Ahh! But we're all going digital by default! No more bulky brown envelopes full of blank pages, just listen out for the 'you've got mail!' ping on your PC.

 

IDS will make a triumphant speech to the effect that not only has he cut welfare out of existence, he managed to save the rainforests at the same time, whilst adding that it all came together just before Royal Mail got sold off thus saving the country a fortune in courier fees.

[honeybee13]

Plus they were on about nosy employers moseying at Facebook and claimed people should be wary of this, so now your facebook needs to be job-friendly?????? (My term)

 

Chester, where my OH works, HR routinely check the FB pages of job applicants. Anyone who sounds irresponsible or unsuitable may well not get an interview.

 

HB

[Chester6]

Chester, where my OH works, HR routinely check the FB pages of job applicants. Anyone who sounds irresponsible or unsuitable may well not get an interview.

 

HB

It's very invasive though plus unsuitable? Some seem someone else unsuitable for shallow and stupid reasons .

How do HR do it as people set it to private?

[LongHairedLily]

Tell me about it! I received another two letters today, one dated 09/09 and one dated 10/09 telling me that the doubt no longer exists. Again, both four-page letters with the "disagreeing with a decision" booklet enclosed. What an absolute waste.

 

I can top the amount Paulo received. Today I received three separate brown envelopes from Jupiter Drive in Birkenhead all dated the same day and from the same department! All regarding my closed JSA claim! What a waste !

[Paulo83]

I can top the amount Paulo received. Today I received three separate brown envelopes from Jupiter Drive in Birkenhead all dated the same day and from the same department! All regarding my closed JSA claim! What a waste !

 

Same office! You could probably train some chimps from Chester Zoo to do a more competent and efficient job!

[jasta11]

When you're not being sanctioned, they send 3 identical letters telling you this...yet when you are sanctioned, they don't even send one to tell you.

 

It's almost funny, if it wasn't so disgraceful.