Ingeus

[Nystagmite]

Can't the WP draw up their own plan and completely ignore the JSAg?

[Mr.P]

If a job seeker has an agreement in place with the JCP that states, for example, can work 09:00-16:00 Mon-Fri due to care responsibilities an never on a Sunday for religious reasons, then the answer should be no. To insist that someone with the (example) limits should work 07:00-19:00 would be unreasonable in the participants circumstances.

[stikky62]

Can't the WP draw up their own plan and completely ignore the JSAg?

 

Yes they can, but you don't have to sign it

 

Stick to the JSAg, the WP can go ....

[jasta11]

Again, in the DWP guidance it says that the WP has leeway to use their own methods...BUT anything they do still has to fall within DWP guidelines at all times. The DWP pulls the strings, not the WP.

 

Chapter 3b of the WP Guidance says;

 

Action Planning

1. You have the freedom to develop your own processes to support participants, plan activity and manage their experience whilst on the Work Programme in line with your delivery model and contract terms and conditions.

 

2. Your evidence of action planning must comply with your minimum service delivery standards, the content of your successful bid and other requirements set out in your contract.

 

The WP also has to keep accurate records of everything in this 'Action Plan' too - they can be audited at any time. Ask your advisor for a written copy of all your Action Plan documents..should be interesting to see their reaction !

[Mr.P]

1. You have the freedom to develop your own processes to support participants, plan activity and manage their experience whilst on the Work Programme in line with your delivery model and contract terms and conditions.

 

Also worth asking how any of these "processes" fit in with "A personalised package of support that is tailored to your needs" [Ingeus Getting the most from our services.pdf thanks to: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/induction_of_your_customers_into]

[agentofchaos]

Hey just seeking some advise, my Ingeus adviser is saying to me that due to pressure being put on them etc they are having to be more strict, which I get ( I live in a very small town with very few job opertunities). But then she says "we don't feel your looking hard enough for work and neither do they" And pointed to the Jobcenter. I was rather annoyed at this as I do my best.

So I spoke to the job center and they said they don't know what she's talking about as I do everything I have agreed in the job center agreement I signed.

So I bring this up the next week and she still insists the same.

My question is, are they allowed to talk about me behind my back like that? Makes me feel belittled. Either that or she is lying to threaten me. Which she has done with the dreaded S word.

[Mr.P]

Translation of the Ingeus speak:

We are crapping ourselves because we have failed to meet the minimum contracted targets. Rather than take the blame for our own incompetence, we will pass the buck. As a result, our victims^Wclients will carry the can and have their collective butts kicked for the most trivial of excuses.

Read up on the DWP guidance notes issued to the providers - Chapter and verse can be found on the DWP website. Insist on all communication to be backed up in writing (not email or text message), and record every conversation (their consent is not required).

 

As long as you meet the terms of your JSag, your Ingeus "adviser" is clutching at straws - It doesn't surprise me if (s)he lies about you, most of them have a track record for this, but as long as you have a paper trail & recordings to refute any false claims, you can stick a finger up at them.

 

Yes, I had one bunch claiming I threatened and abused staff, which they tried to back peddle on when I pointed out all conversations had been recorded.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Mr.P

[agentofchaos]

Thanks I'll be sure to record my conversations from now on. The DWP guidance notes are Very interesting read

[Mr.P]

You could also try turning the tables on Ingeus and ask "You claim to provide a tailored and personalised package of support - What are you doing to help me back in to work ?"....

 

Based on the results of the current Work Programme (and the previous incarnations), CV/letter writing courses and "supervised job searches" are a pretty poor substitute for genuine assistance.

[jasta11]

Hey just seeking some advise, my Ingeus adviser is saying to me that due to pressure being put on them etc they are having to be more strict which I get ( I live in a very small town with very few job opertunities). But then she says "we don't feel your looking hard enough for work and neither do they" And pointed to the Jobcenter.

 

The only 'pressure' Ingeus and all the other drone have is to make MORE MONEY out of you. That's the sole reason for their existence; they're a business, not our 'friends'.

 

Your advisor needs to be reported for talking utter b*ll*cks. Ask her to put it in writing that the JC are unhappy with you and ask her to sign it, so you can show the JC and DWP.

 

If the Jobcentre really thought you - or anybody - weren't seriously looking for work then they'd certainly tell you themselves next time you signed on.

 

Good advice from Mr P to ask Ingeus what the hell they're doing for you - they've found me a whopping 3 vacancies in 20 months. Wow!!

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Nystagmite]

You could also try turning the tables on Ingeus and ask "You claim to provide a tailored and personalised package of support - What are you doing to help me back in to work ?"....

 

I asked this and was told "that's not our job". What is your job then? Apart from forcing people on to useless courses.

[Chester6]

You could also try turning the tables on Ingeus and ask "You claim to provide a tailored and personalised package of support - What are you doing to help me back in to work ?"....

 

Based on the results of the current Work Programme (and the previous incarnations), CV/letter writing courses and "supervised job searches" are a pretty poor substitute for genuine assistance.

 

I asked this and was told "that's not our job". What is your job then? Apart from forcing people on to useless courses.

They helped me get an NVQ but I think they normally claim to offer support to your job search, although what support they offer is pretty dire as it consists of useless courses, ignorance, lies and threats plus thieving. They have boxes to tick which is more important to them then being able to help

My one actually dared to ask me what I would do about getting to an job interview she set up after she stole from me on Ingeu's' behalf, I felt like laughing in her face

[Chester6]

They will find you vacancies to apply for - whether you want those particular ones don't bother them as they don't seem bothered about getting to the job or your personal circumstances

[Mr.P]

I asked this and was told "that's not our job".

 

.... What the &%*! am I paying taxes for if these muppets just sit on their collective backsides.... If they are not providing support and help to get the unemployed back in to work, then they are in breach of their contract !

[agentofchaos]

Thanks for the advice everyone

My next point will to tell her to go stick the job I feel I'm being bullied into applying for. I'm trying to move town and the best they got for me is a 2 month call center job that I'm being pressured to call.

I have no problem with getting a job in the city i want to move but she really isnt helping.

Firstly I made it clear I am not comfortable talking to people on the phone for lengths of time. Then the boss came down to tell me about how "all the famous people started in call centers" and was told I had to apply to them basically.

Secondly the job is 2 months I can't afford to uplift my life for a 2 month vacancy. But she sees this as an "opportunity" I think all she sees is her big fat bonus.

Applying for them was one of my weekly tasks , can I get sanctioned for then not full filling that task?

[Chester6]

.... What the &%*! am I paying taxes for if these muppets just sit on their collective backsides.... If they are not providing support and help to get the unemployed back in to work, then they are in breach of their contract !

They view support as forcing you to go to mostly pointless courses, learndirect, forcing you to go for jobs you don't always want for various reasons and stupid group sessions plus the forced labour

[Mr.P]

"all the famous people started in call centers"

[..]Applying for them was one of my weekly tasks , can I get sanctioned for then not full filling that task?

 

How many "famous people" can you name that worked in a call centre ?

Off the top of my head, the count is zero.

Have applied once for a call centre job for a double glazing outfit - On being told it was cold calling prospective customers, I suggested that it would involve illegal and possibly criminal activities (TPS & Telecommunications Act, etc). Didn't get the job, not that I wanted it anyway...

 

Has this "vacancy application" been correctly mandated as per DWP guidance, is it within the scope of your JSag, and is travel & hours reasonable ?

There are (a few) jobs in *this region that are 45min away by car, but using public transport, would take nearly two hours to get to - But the bus service stops after 20:00, and a shift typically ends at 22:00... So... If the written "weekly task" does not include the prescribed text ("if you do not....your benefits may be...") and/or it is not appropriate to your circumstances, then no, you would be unlikely to get a sanction.

 

 

Note: Applying for a job is not the same as getting one. An employer may decide to pull ten applications from a pile of two hundred and bin the rest. He/she may not even like your CV and throw it on the reject pile.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Mr.P

[agentofchaos]

Ha the city is 4 and a half hours away by bus. My job seekers agreement is for retail and labour so call center doesn't exactly qualify.

[Mr.P]

If she was stupid enough to raise a benefit doubt, a DM would slap her down at the first reading. You could then go in with a wet kipper to reminder her of her delusional stupidity.

[joeski]

well i don't know any famous persons who started in a call centre..sounds like ingeus are talking cr@p and telling lies again!

[jasta11]

Call centre jobs - whether real vacancies or imaginary ones - seems to be the main core of WP vacancies these days. Absolutely nothing wrong with doing it - if it's what you do. A lot of people just can't do it; I myself haven't the patience with people and so the JC kindly did not include it on my JS agreement.

 

WP's work on the 'quantity, not quality' principle - keep sending people for ridiculous jobs and hopefully they'll actually get one. They're happy, DWP are happy..guess who the unhappy one is?

 

Deborah Harry must have worked in a call centre at one time..Blondie had hit's with 'Hanging On The Telephone' and 'Call Me'

[Charlotte_Henderson]

well i don't know any famous persons who started in a call centre..sounds like ingeus are talking cr@p and telling lies again!

 

Olly Murs used to work in a call centre

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Hey Guys/Gals, i am after some advice please, was at my weekly Ingeus appointment today, my advisor...(number 6) has told me i have to apply for this job he has printed off for me, it's for shop work which is fine as that is what i am after but it's full time and i am only after part time as i'm a single parent and i have no parents (both deceased) to help look after my son, and he is too old really for child care at 13years old, the job is between 7am to 7pm with the odd 11pm finish, he also wants me to sign up to the new universal job match site and upload my CV as he says the job centre will want to keep track of my job applications,he wants this all done in time for my next appointment with him next week. Do i have to register with Universal site if the job centre haven't asked me yet, also do i have to apply for this full time job. Thank you in advance for any help.

 

I thought everyone had to register for universal job match, or that's what i was told anyway.

as for the job id apply for it, as its not worth the hassle ingeus will give you if you dont.

[antone]

I thought everyone had to register for universal job match, or that's what i was told anyway.

as for the job id apply for it, as its not worth the hassle ingeus will give you if you dont.

 

No, not everyone has to register - at least, not yet. Jobcentre advisers can, at their discretion, issue a Jobseeker's Direction requiring a claimant to register with UJM. WP providers cannot mandate claimants to register.

[Chester6]

Olly Murs used to work in a call centre

 

He was also on deal or no deal plus the talent show

He's done well for himself but I doubt his call centre experience was beneficial for how he's done well