help with Rossendales and council tax debt

[ploddertom]

Ok so I have gotten a reply from Rossendales - they claim to have left a notice of seizure at my fathers address (which they havn't) and claim to have seized a silver mountain bike. - have they listed what type or better description - I have asked my father and neither he or my brother have ever owned a silver mountain bike so this claim is fraudulent. How do I complain to rossendales properly about this act of fraud? I also know for certain that no person has entered my fathers property as he has a guard dog, which would not let any stranger onto his property, not even I can bring friends to his home if my father is not home so the bailiffs would not have got in without being bitten, and Im sure they would have told me if they were attacked by the dog. I suspect this is a bike that may have been seen in the vicinity only.

 

They also claim that they left me a form some time ago to arrange a payment scheme - which I am certain they did not, and now refuse to supply me with one.

 

Further more they say they will not deal with me in writing any more as it is with one of their bailiffs - even though I have informed them I have no access to a telephone (I have less than £5 to live off for two weeks so buying credit is not an option, plus I would like a written record incase I need it later on)

 

Any advise on what to put into my next letter to them?

 

Appears to me they are being deliberately obstructive in which case pointless writing to them. You can however complain to the Council instead.

 

PT

[brassnecked]

I would agree with ploddertom, also it may be time to start the Formal Complaint procedure, with letters to CEO of Council, Complaints Department, Council Leader, Councillor and MP, detailing the obstructive nature of the bailiffs and the council in trying to sort things out, and the dubious nature of their levy, also remind the council that they are vicariously liable both jointly and severally for any unlawful actions by the bailiffs. make sure it goes to the complaints department so that a complaint is properly registered in case you need to take the matter to the Ombudsman

 

Others will no doubt help with layout and content of a complaint.

[ploddertom]

So am I correct in thinking that this means that they can not levy on any goods unless it covers the fee owed? If this is the case, should I just agree with Rossendales that as they have sent me an email with a fraudulent notice of seizure form claiming they have seized goods, ie the imaginary mountain bike - that they satisfied themselves the bike covers the debt - and request they close my account immediately?

 

 

The whole idea of levying/seizing goods is to force the debtor into paying for fear of having his goods removed and sold for a pittance at public auction. They are supposed to seize sufficient goods to satisfy the following:

1 - all Bailiff fees

2 - all removal & storage costs

3 - the costs of the auction

4 - all the Auctioneers fees

5 - a proportion of debt owing

In your case and going from memory you owed approx £200, therefore the Bailiff would need to seize goods to the value of approx £2k - working on an average of 10%. Therefore the mountain bike would have had to have been a top of the range model and not your "Acme MB" from Te*co Direct. Better still the mountain bike is not even your property so will render any levy & associated charges as invalid. I don't doubt Rottendales will insist you have to prove who it belongs to - which obviously you cannot.

 

That then leads us to the other party responsible for this and that is the Council. As you are aggrieved by the levy the Bailiff has made it is a simple matter of writing to the Council telling them you are preparing to make a Regulation 46 Complaint at the local Magistrates Court naming the Council as Defendant, you therefore give them a strict 7 days to have this sorted before you file your complaint. Below is a sample Reg 46 letter:

 

 

Mr Jo Blogs

1, High Street

Anytow

Post Code.

 

The Chief Clerk

xxxx Magistrates Court

 

Date:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Council Ref: xxxxxx

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against xxxxxxx Council by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 as a matter of urgency.

 

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Mr Smith of ABC Certificated Bailiffs on (enter date) for the following reason:

 

* The Bailiff visited my premises and he has provided a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory advising me that he has levied against a vehicle that was outside/on the drive of my home.

* This vehicle is not owned by me. I do not know the owner of the vehicle and it would appear that the Bailiff has assumed that this is my car because it was parked close to my home.

* The Bailiff in seizing this vehicle, has charged me a levy fee of £50 together with an enforcement fee of £150 and I am advised that unless I pay the amount of the Laibility Order of £xxx together with the charges associated with this levy, that the Bailiff will be attending at my property to remove this vehicle to satisy my Council Tax arreas and in addition I will also be liable for further charges for "attending to remove" and I could also be in position of being personally liable to the owner of the vehicle.

* I have written to the Bailiff Company and the local authority concerning this levy but my complaints have been ignored.

 

I trust that this information will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.

Yours faithfully"

 

PT

[brassnecked]

eliot adapt what ploddertom has posted substituting that the bailiff has seized a mountain bike that you and no one in your family posesses, and you don't know of any that may have been in the vicinity.

[Elliot2011]

Sorry for the delayed response I have been writing my formal complaint to the council about its staff and their third party employees (Rossendales).

 

PT - "have they listed what type or better description" - no description what so ever or estimated value. Just Silver mountain bike written on the form I have only had an email copy of, I though that bailiffs were required to leave a copy at the address if they seized goods? I have also written a formal complaint to the bailiff requesting proof of levi and goods seized and have informed them that if I do not receive the proof I will report them to ESA, and demanded that if they fail to provide proof they should remove the fees on my account related to this levi.

 

I have also written to the local police station in regards to anybody reporting a silver mountain bike being stolen around the time of the claimed levi, so that I can inform them that Rossendales claim to have levied upon a bike that does not belong to me.

 

Thank you for the template letter, I will await a reply from both rossendales and the council and post back here for more advice if required.

 

Elliot

[ploddertom]

 

PT - "have they listed what type or better description" - no description what so ever or estimated value. Just Silver mountain bike written on the form I have only had an email copy of, I though that bailiffs were required to leave a copy at the address if they seized goods? - They will find some sort of excuse as to why it has disappeared, it hasn't it was never left in the first place - I have also written a formal complaint to the bailiff requesting proof of levi and goods seized and have informed them that if I do not receive the proof I will report them to ESA, - I can save you the time and bother of doing this, this is an organisation organised & paid for by the member enforcement agencies. They are self funded and will find no fault with one of their own - and demanded that if they fail to provide proof they should remove the fees on my account related to this levi.

 

I have also written to the local police station in regards to anybody reporting a silver mountain bike being stolen around the time of the claimed levi, so that I can inform them that Rossendales claim to have levied upon a bike that does not belong to me.

 

Thank you for the template letter, I will await a reply from both rossendales and the council and post back here for more advice if required.

 

Elliot

 

PT

[Elliot2011]

Ah ok thanks PT

[RaeUK]

Watching with interest. You're getting good advice Elliot and the hang of the National Standards. If you re-read the thread you'll see some of your later queries were answered in earlier posts. Don't forget that any Formal Complaint to the council CEO needs to be clearly marked FORMAL COMPLAINT ...

Good luck

Rae

[Vicki202]

Hi sounds like you had some of the same trouble i did some of the advice i was given a while ago now if i think correct

 

They can not levi and put a van fee on the same day at same time and could u possibley send me the names of bailiffs via pm as i had lots of dealings with rossendales and would be good to no if they are still working similier cases treating people as they did me but hang in there it does work in the end

 

Vicki

[Yellow160]

Good old Rossendales...My partner had similar issues

[Vicki202]

its took me a long time to fight them infact it started in feb last yr after been assaulted by 1 of them i choose to fight all the way and i am slowy winning so hang on in there u can get there

[Elliot2011]

Sorry its been a while since I posted here, I have been busy sorting out my debt and meeting university deadlines.

 

Ok so from my last post I issued a formal complaint against rossendales asking them to prove the levi had taken place and also to prove the date that they levied on as every time I have spoken to them via email or letter the date seems to change. I eventually got a reply and the first words from Rossendales went something along the lines of "We take vexatious complaints seriously and will not hesitate to proceed with court action." Funny I thought as they are without a doubt the ones being vexatious but oh well. The rest of the report went on to give me only the made up notice of seizure letter I have only ever received by email. Again showing a different date of levi from what they then list latter on in the report. No pictures of the bike they claim to have taken, the only description they provide is that it is silver (no name or anything else). They then say this is sufficient evidence and I should pay immediately, totally ignoring the fact that I asked, if a levi should only be carried out if the total sum of debt was covered in the levi, why they were still pursuing me unless of course the levi was fraudulent.

 

I also issued this formal complaint to the council involved, and good old forest heath district council totally ignored both my emails and two letters issuing this complaint. When I phoned them they claimed it was "stupid" I could not afford to pay £200 - regardless of if I was homeless, jobless and not in receipt of benefits - after this being said the person just hung up on me. Im kind of stuck here as I believe I need to make an official complaint to the council before I can take it further, but if they do not acknowledge my complaint how do I proceed?

 

I have (with my student loan) paid the council their money (which left me struggling to feed myself) - but Id still like to continue my complaint of the way they treated me - someone who according to appropriate guidelines was and still is vulnerable. I think it is disgusting the way the council acted, especially as I made all possible steps to try and make an agreement with them taking into consideration my situation.

 

As for Rossendales I have heard nothing what so ever from them since paying the council, I guess I take that as a good sign. But would you recommend continuing to demand proof of levi, or is this just poking the hornets nest so to speak?

 

I certainly feel much better now that my priority debts are taken care of, and I would not be at this stage if it was not for this forum and the lovely posters who have offered advice and support.

 

Thank you very very much.

 

Elliot

[seanamarts]

I would get a complaint off asap to the chief executive of the council out lining your complaint and how it has been handled. It may also be worth your while contacting your local councillor or MP, they can often help with a complaint.

[Elliot2011]

Thank you seanamarts I will try this, feel like this will fall on deaf ears at the council but the MPs might take some notice. Dont get me wrong Im not after anything but acknowledgement that the way they acted was inappropriate - I am certain that there are people out there in much worse situations than myself getting treated even worse, and the councils should take action to prevent this.

[hallowitch]

seanamarts is correct that a complaint should be sent to CEO your MUST head your letter/email FORMAL COMPLAINT and also sent it to the complaints department if you look on your councils web site you should find the name and e-mail address of the CEO

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?212401

[seanamarts]

If you dont get any joy from the CEO then your next move would be the government ombudsman.

People need to complain regardless of how trivial it may seem. No one deserves to be treated wrongly.

Good luck with this and let us know how you get on.

[Elliot2011]

Sorry to revive an old thread but - I have over the last two months had rossendales hassling me for the charges related to this account that I believe are not valid.

 

I have paid the council in full and they have confirmed that the liability order has now ceased - I have this in writing from them. Rossendales are claiming they can still act on this liability order to recover there costs which I believe is false? Am I correct.

 

I have paid rossendales the first and second visit fees but refuse to pay for a levy they claim to have made. They claim to have levied a bike from my fathers address, which i do no live at. I have not owned a bike for roughly ten years so I know for sure it was not bike, further more my father does not own a bike so it was not his.

 

In written communications they have provided different dates for the levi and also have not provided any proof what so ever this levy ever took place, even though I have repeatedly asked them to provide some.

 

Am I correct in thinking that, 1) they cant act on the liability order that the council say is now void - 2) iv paid all fees im legally obliged to pay?

[wonkeydonkey]

I would personally file any further correspondence in the large recycle vestibule outside your door. If your debt is discharged and you have paid all fees the bailiff is due then they can foxtrot oscar for the liability order is satisfied. If they wish to chance their arm and issue County Court proceedings to obtain a CCJ for fees they cannot justify, then let them do so and you will have great pleasure watching them make bigger fools of themselves than they have repeatedly been seen to do on Cag. Should they attend your home or continue to harass you then it will be your turn to file action against them.

Save every copy of correspondence you have entered into with them requesting proof of the work they are attempting to charge for then get on with your life and enjoy.

 

WD

[Elliot2011]

Thanks for the reply - pretty much what I thought.

 

I have demanded that all communications from them must be in email form as I do not have a permanent address so have a nice "paper" trail so to speak. I also sent them a copy of the doorstep letter - and pointed out I have paid all my legally owed costs to them and the council and the fact that I have in writing that the liability order does not exist any more in the eyes of council.

 

They are relentless though, wish theyd just F**K off and stop causing me stress

[brassnecked]

If they send threatOgrams in writing and post ever escaslating demands, you could warn them you will be taking action against them for criminal harrassment, and every contact they make in writing or by phone is now being gathered as evidence to be passed to the police and your Mp. It might make them go away, then again....

[ploddertom]

I don't doubt for one moment that if you challenge the "alleged" levy they will come back and say the item(s) in question were in the area at the time and will you please send proof of ownership for the 3rd part that owns the goods. In other words absolute drivel.

 

You can kill this stone dead by advising the Council that their agent refuses to give you details of an alleged levy made on your supposed goods.They are being obstructive in their handling of this by giving various different dates this was done. As you are now aggrieved by this you will be submitting an application in the Local Magistrates Court for a Regulation 46 Complaint and the Council will be named as Defendant.

 

Don't forgt the Council are ultimately responsible for their contractor regardles of whether you have paid in full or not, they statrted this course of action.

 

PT

[Elliot2011]

Not only have I challenged the levi many times, I have also been asking them to provide any proof that a levi actually took place. Funnily enough the emailed only levi form states they took a silver mountain bike. Thats all the details on this (suspected) forged form.

 

Iv asked for a picture of the bike, a more detailed description and all they say in response is "please provide proof of ownership of this item to have the fees removed"

 

The council totally ignore all my complaints about this and to be honest I just want to be left alone by rossendales now as I know Iv never owned a silver mountainbike and no one at my fathers address has either.

 

I will try complaining to the council again, just want to be sure in the knowledge that rossendales cant act on a now void LO to collect just their fees.

 

After all the council have confirmed that the tax + the court costs for obtaining the LO have been paid in full, and I have 100% paid Rossendales the £42.50 I owed them for the two visits.

[brassnecked]

looks like you will have to follow ploddertom's advice and initiate a Regulation 46 at the magistrates court to focus the council's feeble mind and remind them of their vicarious joint and several liability for the actions of their agent tossendales

[Elliot2011]

Yeah, Il wait and see how they reply to my last email outlining all my points one last time and if they do not confirm that they will mark the account cleared il have to proceed with the complaints service again

[seanamarts]

It makes me laugh, sorry, but how do you prove that you do not own something.