sainsburys credit card CCA return - now sold to cabot

[firstship]

Hi 42man thanks for your reply,have read the above case Kotecha vs Phoenix (I think),what if the agreement they provide for court purposes does not have my signature??? or am I mis-understanding the Kotecha case??

 

Regards FS

[42man]

I referred to the case as the agreement that they provided in that case didn't match with the interest rates on the statements.....

[Undercover-Elsa]

Firstship,

Can you just clarify whether they have failed to supply you with ANY agreement, not even a recon?

 

Elsa x

[firstship]

Elsa Hi.Halifax did not provide an agreement of any type not even recon: 4/5 DCAs the same no agreement of any type, ,now 1st credit(they own the debt) say they will produce an agreement be it signed or unsigned for court purposes and an unsigned agreement is all they require for the court action.They have further stated it may take up to 6 months to obtain the agreement if it exists from Halifax.

 

42man if or when this goes to court I will make sure all details are correct (I hope)

 

I am still concerned that they insist they do not need a signed copy for the court???

 

FS

[Undercover-Elsa]

Some judges may accept recons, but they shouldn't. If Halifax could have sent you a recon instead of the original they would have done. 1st Credit are bullying you.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Maybe send them something on the lines of this next time:

Dear Sir,

With regard to your claims of being able to produce an agreement, and threats of court action, I do not see how you as a debt purchaser will be able to achieve this when the original company have categorically stated in writing that they cannot supply either an original agreement nor even a reconstructed one for this account.

 

As I'm sure you are aware this failure to comply with a s 77-79 request means that a court is not at liberty to enforce this account, hence your threats are misleading and amount to harrassment.

I would therefore be most grateful if you would put this account on hold and cease communication unless and until my legal CCA request is complied with, or return the account to Halifax.

If your harrassment continues I will have no alternative but to report the behaviour of your company to Trading Standards / The OFT as contravening debt collection guidelines and CPUTR 2008.

[firstship]

Elsa thankyou for your reply as always very helpful,I will follow your above letter in my next communication

 

Regards FS

[Dotty50]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291468-Fighting-back-with-CPUTR-2008....&p=3692740&viewfull=1#post3692740

 

Here is one of P1's useful posts firstship.

[firstship]

dotty thanks for your link to P1 further ammunition to meet 1st Credits threats

 

Regards FS

[patrickq1]

i would be very suprised if the halifax do not have the origional agreement , they are reknowned for storing documents as far back as 1925 for a vast majority of properties throughout the uk so i would be cautious about them not having the agreement , sor ry i have not followed this thread so i am unclear what the document is ,

have you tried Halifax with a sar ?

patrickq1

[firstship]

Patrickq1 Hi Halifax have written they are unable to supply the agreement and a copy of a specific letter regarding interest.

 

Yes I have SARd them,CCA etc got lots of statements and copies of numerous letters.

 

This problem has been with 4/5 DCAs and now 1stCredit have purchased the debt and are trying to supply a copy of the agreement and letter.They have also made the statement that should it go to court they do not have to supply a copy of the signed agreement to support their case.As you may be aware they have already been in trouble with the OFT for making false statements and their general debt recovery tactics

 

The replies from Elsa/42man/dotty have produced some very good links and the way forward with this company

 

thanks for your interest FS

[Dotty50]

I suppose when it has gone round so many DCA's you imagine that in view of you knowing your rights they don't pester too much and move on to someone that caves in easily and is bullied into paying.

 

The crunch really is whether one of them chances their arm and issues a claim and I think that is what we are all at risk of, whether we respond to the threat letters or not!

 

If Judges are now accepting poor copies, the route surely must be that we study whatever they send in answer to your CCA request and see if there any flaws.

 

I had three different copies of a Cap1 agreement but they owe me more in PPI and charges so nothing has happened (so far) on this. They aren't chasing me and I am not chasing them either!

[Bigdebtor]

Maybe send them something on the lines of this next time:

Dear Sir,

With regard to your claims of being able to produce an agreement, and threats of court action, I do not see how you as a debt purchaser will be able to achieve this when the original company have categorically stated in writing that they cannot supply either an original agreement nor even a reconstructed one for this account.

 

As I'm sure you are aware this failure to comply with a s 77-79 request means that a court is not at liberty to enforce this account, hence your threats are misleading and amount to harrassment.

I would therefore be most grateful if you would put this account on hold and cease communication unless and until my legal CCA request is complied with, or return the account to Halifax.

If your harrassment continues I will have no alternative but to report the behaviour of your company to Trading Standards / The OFT as contravening debt collection guidelines and CPUTR 2008.

 

I seem to remember 1st Credit being mentioned by a Govt Minister in a consumer programme (not sure which one) over a year ago as being very much in the spotlight to get its licence revoked if it didn't tidy up its act - might be worth googling for more info and then raise a formal complaint about their misleading/harassing activities - telling them you're going to do so - I bet they'll drop you like a hot brick and pass you back to Halifax pdq.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

[42man]

The government minister I think was Gareth Thomas who at the time was Undersec. Of State for Trade and Consumer Affairs...

 

And you can edit this letter to suit...

 

FINAL RESPONSE

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that I have outlined within the agreement, further more this has already been raised with (names of previous DCA's / Bank here) yet I note they have still assigned the account over to yourselves and the absence of any documents disproving my points itself speaks volumes

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a statutory demand or a court claim I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

 

Yours faithfully...

[Bigdebtor]

42man

 

Thanks for that - I think you're right about who it was, and your suggested response is excellent. I've just hit your star.

 

Incidentally in the latest CAG newsletter e-mailed last night it mentions 1st Credit and Halifax as being in trouble with the courts - worth a look!

 

BD

[firstship]

Opinions......

Have an old debt (Sainsbury) now owned by Cabot I pay them through DMP.

Cabot have made 2 offers over the last year of a 70% reduction if I make a one of payment,to settle the account.

 

 

Not doing this as we are all aware they will sell the balance owing to another Company.

 

 

I have destroyed my Sainsbury File by accident and cannot remember as to whether I did an SAR,

 

 

My Opinion is if Cabot keep making offers,there is something wrong with the documentation or lack of it,or am I guessing wrong ???

 

FS

[unclebulgaria67]

If their offer is a reduced one off lump sum as full and final settlement, they will clear the debt with nothing sold on.

 

It might well just be their policy to offer such reductions to reduce the number of debts, where they are receiving small regular payments. Even with a 70% reduction, they have still made a profit on what they bought it for.

 

Cabot do seem to issue court claims, if people stop paying or never pay.

 

With Sainsburys, the administration of the finance would have been a Bank. Have you ever tested Cabot with a CCA request to see if they can provide it ? Might be worth it and then report back here with the result of your request.

[theoldrouge]

70% reductions indicate certain unenforceable

 

CCA request to Cabot then decide whether to continue payments

 

When was the account opened

 

Hope it's a free dmp

[firstship]

Hi UB57,you are right a CCA request might be the best way forward.I am sure I would have done this with Sainsbury some years ago but as I destroyed the file by accident I cannot be sure,certainly never asked Cabot for CCA

 

Thanks FS

[firstship]

Yes Free DMP,cannot remember when account opened well over 10 years ago

 

FS

[theoldrouge]

I would certainly be sending Cabot a cca request then

[firstship]

OK will do

FS

[dx100uk]

several threads merged

why on earth did you start paying them all those years ago

no one told you to do so..

would have been statute barred by no now...FS...:frusty::frusty:

[firstship]

dx thanks for the old details for Sainsbury now Cabot,they did manage to produce a the correct documentation eventually as indicated in the posts.

 

thanks

fs

[Old Cogger]

what did they supply - ? an enforceable agreement? who says it was correct one with all the requirements, or did you assume as they say so that is it? has anybody else seen the paper they sent?