Doing 60 in a temp 50 on M4

[Rapidone1234]

Perhaps if you didn't drive "fairly absent mindedly" you would not need to slam on the brakes. Just because the cameras are not in use the speed limit still applies.

 

I was certainly driving at a safe speed for the prevailing road conditions, as I alway do and was below the 70mph limit.

 

The issue was seeing the camera graduation lines on the road surface and knowing that they usually mean a 50mph limit.

 

I'm not a perfect driver, but I've not had a speed related accident in 25 years of driving.

 

My point is this, putting a camera on a road is more likely to make me have an accident. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

Edit : I defy anyone to drive for 8 hours per day without loosing concentration for a few seconds, or not go into autopilot for a while.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Rapidone1234

[crem]

Did you think that the speed limit does not apply at 2am and the cameras would be switched off?

 

so what is the purpose of the speed restriction at that time of the morning on what was presumably a fairly empty road with no road works taking place?

 

some years ago speed limits I believe were calculated based on the 85 centile (or something like that) which basically set it at a level that 85% of careful drivers would consider safe to drive at. Speed limits have now just become an arbitary tool with very little relationship to safety and much more to do with revenue raising.

[wheelergeezer]

Surely this a case of bad driving. The camera cannot be blamed for this, only the driver. It must follow that if there was no camera the driver would continue exceeding the speed limit. This cannot be condoned.

Near us we have a temporary 40mph in a normal 70mph for a couple of miles due to roadworks. It seems that most people consider that this limit does not apply to them and continue at 70mph, and then consider themselves hard done by when they are pulled over. I have no sympathy.

 

I completely agree on both points.

 

In reference to the money camera, I do believe the camera being there is the problem over and above the bad drivers who do as per my example. If the camera wasn't visible, ie concealed behind a wall/tree/fence, I would have no problem with that and it wouldn't cause idiots to slam on their brakes. they could then benefit from a souvenier in the post a few days later and an increase in insurance to go along with their new reduction in speed views.

[wheelergeezer]

.....I defy anyone to drive for 8 hours per day without loosing concentration for a few seconds, or not go into autopilot for a while.

 

I can and do every day. I have a feeling Crem does too. I am a driving instructor and believe you me , you need 100% concentration 100% of the time with the pupils these days.

 

To put not too finer a point on it, the only difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has its limits. I did tell one of my genius pupils that one day. They didn't understand to which I replied, point made.

[gwc1000]

so what is the purpose of the speed restriction at that time of the morning on what was presumably a fairly empty road with no road works taking place?

 

These days with long term road works on motorways there are times when the workforce will work through the night. I cannot imagine that it would be viably possible to keep changing the speed limit on a nightly basis in case there are workers or not. Surely during works it is more economical to keep to one limit throughout the time period? And in reality, no problem for most drivers to stay within the limit.

Although the revenue raising argument does have merits, I am sure if you asked most cheif officers, what would they prefer, speeding motorists and lots of revenue, or no revenue and all motorists keeping to the limit, I am convinced they would opt for the latter.

[Rapidone1234]

I can and do every day. I have a feeling Crem does too. I am a driving instructor and believe you me , you need 100% concentration 100% of the time with the pupils these days.

 

You are a driving instuctor that drives for 8 hours per day? When do your pupils drive?

 

Edit : I've never met anyone before that didn't identify with the autopilot syndrome, looks like you chose your proffession well.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Rapidone1234

[gwc1000]

Surely most experienced drivers know what approximate speed they are travelling at without having to check the speedo? Or at least they should.

[Yellow160]

You are a driving instuctor that drives for 8 hours per day? When do your pupils drive?

 

Edit : I've never met anyone before that didn't identify with the autopilot syndrome, looks like you chose your proffession well.

 

 

I would assume he his sat next to the Pupils for 8hrs per day.. He might not be driving but he still needs to concentrate and keep any eye out on the speed and any other hazard that could arise from a learner driver.

 

Correct me if im wrong but doesnt the instructor get penalised if the learner is caught speeding?

Edited July 4, 2009 by Yellow160
extra info

[wheelergeezer]

....'Correct me if im wrong but doesnt the instructor get penalised if the learner is caught speeding?

 

If a pupil is caught speeding, THEY get prosecuted for the offence not the instructor. However, it is highly probable that the ADI would be prosecuted for aiding and abetting.

Edited July 5, 2009 by wheelergeezer

[Danny54]

then you deserve the points and fine..

 

Yes, thanks officer.

[Danny54]

Did you think that the speed limit does not apply at 2am and the cameras would be switched off?

 

Actually, I didn't take the liberty, I just didn't slow down sufficiently because I hadn't paid enough attention to the temporary speed restriction. Anyway, I've been through many of those temp restrictions at varying speeds with cameras measuring your average speed from one point to the next and never been done so it's easy to think they're just fake pieces of crap which never actually record anything.

[jackieandwayne]

Driving instructors might just as well be driving for the 8 hour day! They have to have eyes in the back of their head, feet at the ready at the duals, and also be ready to grab the steering wheel at anytime! On top of that they are trying to teach as they do all this! Knackering and, the two DI's on here may or may not agree with me, isn't, despite all the ads to the contrary, all its cracked up to be! Not financially anyway.

 

Where I live they've just realised that a lovely 4 lane superhighway (well as near as you can get in a small seaside town!) has its problems, its a 50, but from the first set of lights to the second its 30 because this is where people cross the road to get to the shops. Of course, everyone rattles on through at 50 - so last week the Council installed flashy new cameras to get you if you went through the 30 zone too fast.

 

The first thing I saw was someone actually trying to comply with the 30 restriction, being followed by a stream of angry motorists, full on with the horns, nose to nose, escorting the poor person into the 50 zone as fast as they could! It has also caused the town centre to clog in that area, because we also have the joy of a lifting bridge going up every hour! There is more danger in all this snarl up of angry motorists in the heat, shouting and screaming at each other than there ever was in just letting some motorists whip through. Everyone in the town I know is of the opinion that is the prime example of a cash cow!

[Startkey&Clutch]

Driving instructors might just as well be driving for the 8 hour day! They have to have eyes in the back of their head, feet at the ready at the duals, and also be ready to grab the steering wheel at anytime! On top of that they are trying to teach as they do all this! Knackering and, the two DI's on here may or may not agree with me, isn't, despite all the ads to the contrary, all its cracked up to be! Not financially anyway.quote]

 

Three

 

Everything they have said so far is spot on.

[Startkey&Clutch]

Driving instructors might just as well be driving for the 8 hour day! They have to have eyes in the back of their head, feet at the ready at the duals, and also be ready to grab the steering wheel at anytime! On top of that they are trying to teach as they do all this! Knackering and, the two DI's on here may or may not agree with me, isn't, despite all the ads to the contrary, all its cracked up to be! Not financially anyway.

 

quote]

 

Three

 

Everything they have said so far is spot on.

[gwc1000]

Anyway, I've been through many of those temp restrictions at varying speeds with cameras measuring your average speed from one point to the next and never been done so it's easy to think they're just fake pieces of crap which never actually record anything.

 

So what you are saying is if you consider the cameras are mickey mouse you will exceed the speed limit?

You obviously knew what you were doing that night, and my own personal view is that once you have received the points you might possibly keep to the limit in temporary roadworks in the future.

[jed52]

Some posts on this thread seem, in some way to be offering some sort of excuse or reason why people seem to suddenly stumble upon a lower speed limit for roadworks etc. And to say that, 'it was 2am' or 'there was nobody else on the road' or 'nobody was working at the roadworks at the time', is just pure arrogance. Limits are there for a reason and nobody is exempt.

On most roads and particularly motorways, plenty of advance warning is given that roadworks are taking place in 1 mile, 1/2 mile, and so on. So you know that there is a good chance of a lower speed limit when you get to them.

Then, on the other hand, there are those drivers who respect the limit, but do 45 or 46 in a 50 limit, but sit in the middle lane. And for some unknown reason will not move into the inside lane. Tossers.

I'm sick of hearing people going on about cameras being money making machines. There is a simple answer to this problem....dont speed.....dont speed. If people didnt speed, they wouldn't make any money, so they would have to think of some other charge to bang on motorists ever increasing driving costs. So I say carry on speeding and filling the police/government coffers.

Driving demands 100% concentration, 100% of the time.

At the end of the day, its all down to people being crap drivers, simple as that.

[patdavies]

so what is the purpose of the speed restriction at that time of the morning on what was presumably a fairly empty road with no road works taking place?

 

It is not easy to set up TROs for specific times as all the signage has to be changed at exactly those times. There is no authorised speed limit signage that can be displayed at all times which only applies at certain times.

 

Also, in some cases, the speed limits are set because the usual safety devices are no longer present or the road surface is temporarily below spec. For example, where temporary concrete barriers are in place, the limit is set with regard to safe limits of movement when impacted at or below the limit.

 

some years ago speed limits I believe were calculated based on the 85 centile (or something like that) which basically set it at a level that 85% of careful drivers would consider safe to drive at. Speed limits have now just become an arbitary tool with very little relationship to safety and much more to do with revenue raising.

Eighty-fifth percentile - defined much as you state.

 

Modern day speed limits are set without considering this and instead use balnket descriptors - regardless of the road. For example, 30 mph limits being imposed due to the presence of house raather than common sense.

[Danny54]

You say limits are there for a reason, except you don't take into account that those limits need not apply at certain times of day and are only kept in force because THE POLICE WANT TO MAKE MONEY!

 

I'm convinced half of the countrys policeforce and court judges post here. All the pillars of society that like to slap someones wrist at any opportunity however petty

 

OF COURSE IT'S A MONEY MAKING RACKET. AND THERE IS NO DISCRETION USED OTHERWISE THEY WOULD MAKE NO MONEY ESPECIALLY SINCE MOST PEOPLE NOW HAVE SAT NAV SPEED CAMERA DATABASES TO WARN THEM. AWWWWWWW, POOR POLICE.

[Michael Browne]

Then, on the other hand, there are those drivers who respect the limit, but do 45 or 46 in a 50 limit, but sit in the middle lane. And for some unknown reason will not move into the inside lane. Tossers.

Central Lane Residents Association members are my personal bete noire,especially at weekends when effectively they turn a 3 lane motorway into a dual carriageway

 

I'm sick of hearing people going on about cameras being money making machines. There is a simple answer to this problem....dont speed.....dont speed. If people didnt speed, they wouldn't make any money, so they would have to think of some other charge to bang on motorists ever increasing driving costs. So I say carry on speeding and filling the police/government coffers.

You seem to be in a bit of a quandary, is the advice to slow down or speed up?

[gwc1000]

But, Danny although as you say speed limits do not need to apply 24 hours a day, they do apply, and you know they do, however you seem to have a complete disregard for this.

Perhaps you are not getting the responses you desire due to your approach to this.

[crem]

But, Danny although as you say speed limits do not need to apply 24 hours a day, they do apply, and you know they do, however you seem to have a complete disregard for this.

Perhaps you are not getting the responses you desire due to your approach to this.

 

whilst Danny may not be getting the responses he desires in terms of is there any way of the offence not standing, which none of us can help him with, I would say he is getting a great deal of sympathetic support regarding the stupidity and dogma with which speed limits/cameras are used which are not related to safety but revenue.

[Danny54]

whilst Danny may not be getting the responses he desires in terms of is there any way of the offence not standing, which none of us can help him with, I would say he is getting a great deal of sympathetic support regarding the stupidity and dogma with which speed limits/cameras are used which are not related to safety but revenue.

 

 

Hear, hear. Yes, whilst I sarcastically said that I think half of the judges and police post here, there are also, thank god, some people here that agree with me.

[wheelergeezer]

......I'm sick of hearing people going on about cameras being money making machines. There is a simple answer to this problem....dont speed.....dont speed. ...

 

1. I am a professional driving instructor

2. I do NOT speed, never have , never will.

3. These speed cameras can cause problems as highlighted by my previous posts and are indeed primarily revenue generators and very little in the way of safety. What exactly is safe about people slamming on their brakes to go from 90 to 60 then straight back to 90 afterwards?

 

I also sympathise with the OP and I also agree that the 50mph limit on an empty motorway at 2am with no roadworks taking place is harsh. However, as pointed out by others the roadworks are basically set up until finished and there will be times when there is no actual roadworks taking place, as in this instance.

 

So, as far as I can see the OP is guilty of the offence - ridiculous as it may well seem.

[dx100uk]

Then, on the other hand, there are those drivers who respect the limit, but do 45 or 46 in a 50 limit, but sit in the middle lane. And for some unknown reason will not move into the inside lane. Tossers.

 

its a speed LIMIT not a compulsory target.

drivers dont have to travel at that speed.

 

would be nice if the rules of the road were observed though, but two wrongs do not make a right.

 

good mail though.

dx

[wheelergeezer]

I completely agree with the last post.

 

HOWEVER, if a pupil is on their driving test on a 40mph road and they drive at 35 when there is no reason to do so other than they feel like it, they will pick up faults for failing to make progress. If it is a NSL dual carriageway and they decide to do say 55mph as they feel comfortable at that speed, but it would be perfectly safe to go up to 70mph, they will fail their test. Something I have never, ever agreed with. I believe reasonable progress should be acceptable and unless they are actually holding traffic back then there is no fault. Pity the DSA don't see it that way.