Aic

[joolzy]

Please someone help me, i owe Lloyds tsb appx £13000 for a credit card debt which I originally tried to go for an IVA (with other debts) but was turned down as I wasn't "broke enough" so for the last year i've been writing letter after letter to Lloyds offering a payment proposal ect. Unfortunately now i've got AIC on my back. I've tried sending them a letter along with an income/expenditure budget but they're not willing to accept anything exept the full amount. So having looked at your forum to get some advice i've just sent them a CCA (signed delivery) along with a postal order for £1. Can you please give me some advice as to what else I need to do? These people have reduced me to a nervous wreck, to the point that I daren't answer my mobile anymore. Please please help me.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Joolzy,

 

AIC are very, very nasty bullies. They make a lot of noise and try to intimidate people into paying. They have one or two particularly appalling operators who blatantly lie about what they are able to do.

 

If you stand up to them they will probably send the debt back to Lloyds eventually. In the meantime, if they call just state that you will not discuss anything with them on the phone, and they must put everything in writing. Remember, you do not have to go through security with them. Nothing will happen if you just hang up on them. If you do want to say anything just remind them that it is your LEGAL right to see a copy of the alleged agreement under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

You have done absolutely the right thing by sending them the CCA request, so if they do call again tell them they must provide the agreement and if they continue to harass you you will report them to OFT because they will be breaching the guidelines.

 

I assume you had not already put the account into dispute with Lloyds?

 

This is a horrible position to be in - I've been there - but AIC have been seen off by a number of us on CAG. I promise you they just hate it if you stand up to them. They want you in tears and begging (as I was), not arguing and quoting the law.

 

Daniella

[joolzy]

Thanks for the reassurance but i'm worried that the last letter I sent to them has my signiture on it. Do I just sit tight now and wait for the 12 working days to see if I get anything?

[Desperate Daniella]

I do know that some dodgy DCAs will do cut and paste jobs, but I had already sent off my CCA requests before I found CAG and had signed the lot of them. No cut and paste jobs sent yet. If I write now though I just make a slight change that I will recognize instantly, and keep a photocopy of it too.

 

My signature is nothing like it was several years ago. When did you open

the account?

 

You'll have to sit and wait for the 12 days before you send them the account in dispute letter, but you still don't have to do anything or speak to them.

 

 

 

DD

[cups]

Hi

 

DD is right about AIC. You could always send them the do not phone me letter, and ask them to take your numbers off their records.

I recently told them on the phone not to call me and I have heard not a bean from them. You have to be quite strong, but polite and they should get the message. I did not enter into any conversation with them, just note down the name of the person who you speak to when they call as well.

 

Don't worry about it too much, let them get on with it, or not.

 

Cups

[joolzy]

I think i've had the credit card account for over 10 years, maybe 15. Does it make a difference how long i've had it. I had it for years and was making either the minimum payment or more for years untill I got made redundant and everything became a struggle. It all went wrong about a year ago.

[Desperate Daniella]

This has happened to a lot of us.

 

A lot of old agreements are not enforceable. When and if you receive it, you will need to post it up here for the experts to look at. If it hasn't been drawn up properly including all the prescribed terms in the right form then it could well be unenforceable. The debt would still be there, but they would have problems enforcing it. You'd certainly then be in a position to agree acceptable payment terms if you wanted to.

[joolzy]

Thanks Daniella, I'll wait and see if I get anything back in the next few weeks. If I don't get anything back what would my next move be?

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Joolzy,

 

You'll have a number of options. You can do a Subject Access Request to see what they have got. I haven't done these on my cards because I have almost all my statements and at this stage I don't actually need to see what else they have got. They supposedly would have to produce the agreement at that stage, but quite often you won't get more than they provide in response to the CCA request - not the actual agreement. Even if people try to get the agreement under Court Procedural Rules (other option), they still may not get it.

 

I don't have a Lloyds account so you are probably best subbing to a number of those - just search Lloyds and you can see what other people are getting/not getting and what Lloyds are doing. If they don't have the agreement, or have one which wouldn't be enforceable, they'll probably just send you T&Cs and say that this is all they have to provide under Section 78 of the CCAct - which is right. However, they can't enforce the agreement by just providing the T&Cs, as they well know.

 

Remember if they haven't got it, or know that it is unenforceable, they are not going to want to admit that.

 

However, the first thing is to see what they actually send and when they send it. If there is nothing in the first time frame you can decide what to send next. In the meantime, please don't take any rubbish from AIC. Actually you may want to have a look at some other AIC threads and see how people are seeing them off.

 

DD

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved to Debt Collectors Forum.

[joolzy]

Thanks again DD, I know it sounds pathetic but I had started to have mild panic attacks and have lost all my confidence over all of this. All I ever wanted to do was pay the debt but in a way I could afford but just kept hitting brick walls. I'll give it a couple of week and see what I get sent back (if anything) and then i'll be back in touch for the next step. I really do appreciate your help.

[mr.ton]

AIC have no legal powers over you whatsoever..only the county courts do.

Refuse to speak to them on the phone, refuse to answer security questions & insist everything must be in writing only.

Report them to the OFT & trading standards.

You have the power to dictate what (if anything) you will pay & when, they dont - so if thats a £1 per month, then thats what they must accept in a like it or lump it sort of way.

If it ever went to court (at cost to them), then the court can order that amount anyway after all outgoings are taken into account.

You will soon be in a position were you will actually enjoy speaking to them on the phone & will enjoy baiting them

[scott12345]

hi jolzey,

i too am dealing with aic,and i totally agrreee with all mr tom and dd has told you...never feel your getting bullied by these people,just inform them your waiting cca,until then say you can do nothing,

they told me as indeed lloyds did that any a/c over 6 yrs has no cca available from them,weither that was just because they had not got mine or wiether it is there policy i dont know BUTeither way as all caggers have told you no cca ,no enforcement,,,

aic will tell you if theres no cca that they dont need it and can go to court though different act,its treats ,just say sorry ,all must be written,then if threats are written you have it,

good luck and dont worry,if at worst you went to court,the judge if went there way would only ask you to pay whatYOU can not what they want,

[joolzy]

Well my 12 + 2 days are up and the only response i've had from AIC is a text quoting someone elses name and Ref number obviously sent to me buy mistake (naughty naughty). Can someone please tell me what I need to do next, do I just sit and wait it out now and see what happens?

[Fred Bassett]

I think i've had the credit card account for over 10 years, maybe 15. Does it make a difference how long i've had it. I had it for years and was making either the minimum payment or more for years untill I got made redundant and everything became a struggle. It all went wrong about a year ago.

 

Hi Joolzy,

 

I'm about to start my own battle with AIC over an MBNA credit card, so I'll be watching your thread with interest.

 

You've had some good advice - the most important piece being not to talk to them - under any circumstances.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[F_DCAs]

Quite right, Desperate Daniella - AIC really hate it once they catch on they won't be worming money out of you, possibly more than any other DCA I've ever encountered.

 

Now, I just give them a call every full moon just to berate them, that they'll be on their way out soon, that they don't know the industry they work in, etc.

 

Not just for amusement you understand, but it's my civic duty to remind these people where they stand...

[Fred Bassett]

I'm looking forward to this.

 

Fred

[F_DCAs]

That reminds me. Must have another talk with Intrum Justitia soon.

[joolzy]

Ok Thanks for all your comments, please can someone advise me as to what I need to do next?

[joolzy]

I've got a general question, If no one can provide a cca for this debt. Where do I stand regarding repaying it? Do I have to go back to the original bank, will it be written off etc???????? Please help me.

[Fred Bassett]

I've got a general question, If no one can provide a cca for this debt. Where do I stand regarding repaying it? Do I have to go back to the original bank, will it be written off etc???????? Please help me.

 

Joolzy, that depends on you. If you do decide to pay it off, then the money will go to whoever owns it - so if it's been sold on then you would have to pay the new creditor.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Joolzy,

 

Whatever you do, hang on to the text they sent you on someone else! Can you email that from your phone to your pc and keep a copy?

 

If the original creditor, or a DCA, wants to enforce the debt they have to produce an enforceable credit agreement.

 

If I were you, if they call again, I would just reiterate that neither they nor the original creditor have sent a CCA 1974-compliant agreement, and tell them to put everything in writing.

 

Please don't worry. If they have an enforceable agreement you can negotiate repayment terms. If they cannot produce one, you will have a lot of time to think about it/sort it out. I sent off CCA requests six months ago and I haven't had one CCA-compliant agreement yet, and I haven't paid anything for six months.

 

DD

Edited May 11, 2009 by Desperate Daniella

[joolzy]

Hi DD,

 

Thanks for that, i've just emailed the text to myself and I will keep hold of it, I know it probably sound a bit dumb but how will keeping the text help. Is it just so I can prove exactly how incompetent they really are????

 

Your advice has been invaluable DD, to be honest I don't think that they have the original CCA as i've had the card for a lot of years, if they can't provide the CCA does this make the debt totally unenforcable, if that's the case does that mean it'll never have to be paid?? Sorry for all these questions, i'm still learning my way around.

[Fred Bassett]

Hi DD,

 

Thanks for that, i've just emailed the text to myself and I will keep hold of it, I know it probably sound a bit dumb but how will keeping the text help. Is it just so I can prove exactly how incompetent they really are????

 

Your advice has been invaluable DD, to be honest I don't think that they have the original CCA as i've had the card for a lot of years, if they can't provide the CCA does this make the debt totally unenforcable, if that's the case does that mean it'll never have to be paid?? Sorry for all these questions, i'm still learning my way around.

 

Hi Zoolzy,

 

If they can't provide a CCA it means that would have no chance of enforcing it in court. It does not mean that the debt is not owed, but It does mean they shouldn't take enforcement action such as pass it on to a DCA. I say "shouldn't" because this will not stop them - they don't abide by the law.

 

Essentially, all you have to do is make a CCA request to each DCA that deals with it and that should be enough to send them packing. As long as you have sent them the 'do not ring me' and 'do not darken my doorstep' letters, all they can do is write to you.

 

Just be aware that they may produce a valid agreement at some time in the future though. It can happen.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[joolzy]

Ok here's the next theoretical question. What would happed if AIC had bought the debt from Lloyds and couldn't provide a CCA and would I still owe the full amount or the amount the DCA purchased it for? Lots and lots of questions....