Maccas Mum/Panorama/First Credit

[maccas-mum]

Hi i am the lady featured on bbc1s panorama10/11/2008 cant pay wont pay.I know some people thought i had a yes no attitude to 1st credit,however i was told by panorama not to get angry as it could be seen as antagonising them in front of the camera! Truth is i did cry i was upset and all i wanted was for my dad to be my old dad no longer be disabled and mentally unfit for anything! He was a mess these people at first credit were cretins but panorama were my last hope.I knew i needed to be calm (how i did i will never know ) they were the most insensitive bunch of B**tards i have ever known! To see my dad hounded to death by them when he was negotiating with his voices by offering them 3 fingers and a kicking not to kill me and shoot him was the hardest thing i have ever had to see.He just had so many bills and my mum has now taken on the house and mortgage since they have now split up,i just wanted to sort them all out! He has lost everything he worked 6 sometimes 7 days a week to pay what needed paying we had food in our tummies and clothes on our backs,untill his body began shutting down slowly after 5 years he is registered disabled (he used to work on the roads) is on 15 sets of medication and is now sectioned.He has never had a mental illness but after seeing his neurologist just 4 days ago ,he has something wrong with his brain,diagnosis still to be confirmed .That is why i was so passive with them. I know he owes the money and 1st credit will be paid.

I did have a call from a senior figure of 1st credit who apologised and said they had been misleading and are re-training staff and as you say until the next time they are caught! I have also had a call from Panorama who have also said anymore trouble from them they will give them a shove!

I have to contact 1st credit on the 21st and i would be greatful if you have any suggestions X

[Lula]

Hi there, I was so so sorry to see your and your fathers troubles, I cannot advise you but there will be experts who can help you, far more than you have been helped so far, and by the way that your poor dad has been treated I am sure that my fellow caggers are going to do their upmost to help your family. take care and the best of luck, Lula XX

[maccas-mum]

thankyou 1st credit havent waived the debt they did put it on hold for two weeks for me to contact them on the 21st of november. Oh and wished him a speedy recovery!

Edited November 18, 2008 by MARTIN3030
Personal info

[maccas-mum]

I was thinking this myself after just watching the programme on Iplayer. My heart went out to her completely. I wonder if there is a way through the BBC - maybe if enough of us email them asking to pass on our messages, we might be able to get her to vsit this wonderful site and get some proper help rather than be left to it by the BBC.

 

Complaint is on its way to the BBC very soon as well. Not a helpful, educational or even fair programme - in fact wouldn't be surprised if it was made to make people even more afraid and therefore pay up at great cost to their financial and emotional health.

 

Thank God I have found this site and the people who contribute to it!

Thankyou i am a member but am just geting to grips -my messages seem to be ending up all over the place.

Edited November 18, 2008 by MARTIN3030
pers info

[Lula]

Hi there., I would edit your name out of your post, they watch us you know

 

First of all we will need details of the debts that your father has, how much they are and when they were taken out . no identifying marks though please and I will ask that these last few posts be removed and put into the relevant part so that you can get the best help.

[maccas-mum]

Maccas mums experience rang a bell with me. The position of looking after her father against a DCA while he was unwell is one I have read about before- on here.

 

A thread was started by what seems to be a friend of Maccas Mum

 

Ive found it, but dont feel it would be right to broadcast it. The thread fizzled out with no conclusion.

Thats right it was a friend of mine! Maybe now st credit have been shamed they may let him recover and lay off a bit! Thank you

Edited November 18, 2008 by MARTIN3030
pers info

[MARTIN3030]

Good to see you on CAG.

Your story invoked a lot of anger and concerns.

It was consistent to many stories from these forums,and its sad that it took a TV doc to get your issues recognised for what they truly were.

Have moved your posts here into your own thread.

We know you are aware of the interest resulting from your case,and its likely that those responsible for your anguish will also be here,so remember not to give them the upper hand.

That said, CAG is used to taking on these people using the legislation and regulations in place.

Edited November 18, 2008 by MARTIN3030

[sosumi]

Hi Maccas-Mum,

I'm really glad you've posted on here - everyone will help you as much as they can.

I suffer from mental illness too and it's in our family, so I know a little of the stress you're under. Only a little, nobody can know how this must be for you and your family. I also worked as a nurse (RMN). Not knowing exactly what is making your Dad so ill must be very hard.

This is a brilliant forum and a lot of people have experience with 1st Credit, so you'll get plenty of support here.

xxx sosumi

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Maccas-mum!

 

I have to contact 1st credit on the 21st and i would be grateful if you have any suggestions X

 

First suggestion is to keep it in writing from now on, and run everything and anything past the people here on CAG before you Contact 1st Cretins or respond to anything they send to you.

 

The Telephone, as I think you now know only too well, is their preferred banking weapon of choice. So, the best move you can make now is to take that toy away from them straight away.

 

Once you establish a Letter Audit Trail, things will settle down, because Letters are nice and slow...at least in comparison with the Telephone.

 

Letters give you time to think, and time to seek help from the legions of people here on CAG who I just know will be falling over themselves to come to your aid. Where else, for example, can you get help at 03:00 in the Morning!

 

I expect that 1st Cretins will mess you around for a little while yet before they accept that your Telephone relationship with them is over. But stick to your guns and pretty soon you will have these people under control.

 

They would never dare try to intimidate you via Letter, because that is accountable, and they know it.

 

Take your time, but at least some genuine and sincere help is now at hand. Come back when ever you can to post further details.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Josie8]

I would suggest that you send a Subject Access request to each creditor asking for all documentation they hold. Then the agreements and default notices etc can be checked to see if enforceable and the statements of account checked for charges etc.

[pt2537]

Hi i am the lady featured on bbc1s panorama10/11/2008 cant pay wont pay.I know some people thought i had a yes no attitude to 1st credit,however i was told by panorama not to get angry as it could be seen as antagonising them in front of the camera! Truth is i did cry i was upset and all i wanted was for my dad to be my old dad no longer be disabled and mentally unfit for anything! He was a mess these people at first credit were cretins but panorama were my last hope.I knew i needed to be calm (how i did i will never know ) they were the most insensitive bunch of B**tards i have ever known! To see my dad hounded to death by them when he was negotiating with his voices by offering them 3 fingers and a kicking not to kill me and shoot him was the hardest thing i have ever had to see.He just had so many bills and my mum has now taken on the house and mortgage since they have now split up,i just wanted to sort them all out! He has lost everything he worked 6 sometimes 7 days a week to pay what needed paying we had food in our tummies and clothes on our backs,untill his body began shutting down slowly after 5 years he is registered disabled (he used to work on the roads) is on 15 sets of medication and is now sectioned.He has never had a mental illness but after seeing his neurologist just 4 days ago ,he has something wrong with his brain,diagnosis still to be confirmed .That is why i was so passive with them. I know he owes the money and 1st credit will be paid.

I did have a call from a senior figure of 1st credit who apologised and said they had been misleading and are re-training staff and as you say until the next time they are caught! I have also had a call from Panorama who have also said anymore trouble from them they will give them a shove!

I have to contact 1st credit on the 21st and i would be greatful if you have any suggestions X

 

Hi,

 

Welcome to the CAG,

 

I was appalled by the way your case was dealt with, the threats from 1st Credit absolutely shocked me as much of what they said was very very misleading in my opinion.

 

I currently have a case which i am looking to issue proceedings on behalf of a client very very soon and we will be seeking to recover the excess money that has been paid under an unenforceable credit agreement

 

I note you say 1st will be paid, may i ask what the debt is for? is it a credit card? store card? loan?

 

Also which lender was it originally with?

 

It may be the case that your dads account is underpinned with a defective agreement and he may have already repaid the capital and further more may have an entitlement to recover the monies which he has paid over and above the capital

 

These companies work on fear, their threats are their weapons and once you see through this then they lose all their power

 

If you can let us know what the debt was made out of, then we can help you to deal with these people

[42man]

If they are being unreasonable and not accepting any offer of affordable repayments then I know that if it was me in your position. I would send out a request for a copy of your agreement which is a request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - (this can only be used for credit cards, loans, HP agreements)...

 

You can find the letter here letter 'N' - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

You need to send this by recorded delivery, accompanied with a £1 postal order. And do not hand sign the letter, as it has been alleged that some Debt Collection Agencies will 'lift' your signature and conveniently place it on an old agreement. This is the reason why an agreement is requested (have a read through and try and understand what is being said here) -

 

Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations

1983 (SI 1983/1569)

 

2 Prescribed period

The period of 12 working days is hereby prescribed for the purposes of each provision of the Act specified in Column 1

of the Schedule to these Regulations relating to the duty indicated in Column 2 in relation to regulated agreements

 

SCHEDULE

SECTIONS OF THE ACT IN RESPECT OF WHICH A PERIOD OF 12 WORKING DAYS IS PRESCRIBED RELATING TO DUTIES IN

RELATION TO REGULATED AGREEMENTS

Regulation 2

Section of the

Act

Duty

(1) (2)

77(1) Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement.

78(1) Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

79(1) Duty to give information to hirer under consumer hire agreement.

 

and section 78 for running credit

 

78.

Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

— (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1 £1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a)

the state of the account, and

 

(b)

the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

©

the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a)

an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

 

(b)

a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

 

(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

(a)

showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

 

(b)

where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

 

 

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a)

he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

 

 

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections (4) and (5) do not apply to a small agreement

 

If they fail to provide the agreement within 12+2 working days then they will be in default of your request, and is unenforceable......

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If they are continuing to harrass you then I would suggest you writing this letter and again send by recorded delivery. It is certainly not unreasonable to communicate in writing, and harrassment affects different people in different ways, at least by putting everything in writing you have a complete history to what is happening.

 

You can find the harrassment letter here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

 

Have you also considered sending a subject access request to the original creditor to ascertain if there are a significant number of excessive penalty charges that have been added to the account ? As you probably know you can potentially reclaim these + 8% compounded interest.

 

Unfortunately this costs £10 (send postal orders) and send it recorded, to the original creditor. Under the data protection act they have to send you this information within 40 days.

 

This link here might help you - http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

 

This might be a good one to use -

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

If you aren't sure or need any help, please shout....

[mr.ton]

Hi i am the lady featured on bbc1s panorama10/11/2008 cant pay wont pay.I know some people thought i had a yes no attitude to 1st credit,however i was told by panorama not to get angry as it could be seen as antagonising them in front of the camera! Truth is i did cry i was upset and all i wanted was for my dad to be my old dad no longer be disabled and mentally unfit for anything! He was a mess these people at first credit were cretins but panorama were my last hope.I knew i needed to be calm (how i did i will never know ) they were the most insensitive bunch of B**tards i have ever known! To see my dad hounded to death by them when he was negotiating with his voices by offering them 3 fingers and a kicking not to kill me and shoot him was the hardest thing i have ever had to see.He just had so many bills and my mum has now taken on the house and mortgage since they have now split up,i just wanted to sort them all out! He has lost everything he worked 6 sometimes 7 days a week to pay what needed paying we had food in our tummies and clothes on our backs,untill his body began shutting down slowly after 5 years he is registered disabled (he used to work on the roads) is on 15 sets of medication and is now sectioned.He has never had a mental illness but after seeing his neurologist just 4 days ago ,he has something wrong with his brain,diagnosis still to be confirmed .That is why i was so passive with them. I know he owes the money and 1st credit will be paid.

I did have a call from a senior figure of 1st credit who apologised and said they had been misleading and are re-training staff and as you say until the next time they are caught! I have also had a call from Panorama who have also said anymore trouble from them they will give them a shove!

I have to contact 1st credit on the 21st and i would be greatful if you have any suggestions X

 

Hi...

What amazed me about that programme & your section in specific was how you seemed to be treating 1st Credit like they had some sort of authority or power over you. (told to for the cameras or not i dont know?)

But anyway - they do not have any of this whatsoever/in any way shape or form.

Only the county court system has powers over the individual & unless 1st Credit are preparred to take you through that system, then i really would tell them to get lost if i were you.

They wont take you near a county court as it costs them money to do so & it wouldnt be worth their time, given that they would only get back a small amount each month if anything at all.

[adamski]

Your in very very good hands here.

 

I wish you all the best its a shame you were used in such extreme propraganda unwittingly.

 

All you need now is right here.

[Mr lex]

Hi Maccas Mum,

 

I am so glad you have found the Consumer Action Group.

 

I have nothing to add to what has already been said, only that you are now in the hands of some of the best people on the site, and know doubt, others will be along. Follow the advice you have been given, Don't talk to them on the phone, Do use the letters 42man has given you.

 

If they continue to harass you, come back straight away and we will be able to help you deal with them.

 

You are already in very good hands so I will only post again if I feel I need too to avoid confusion, but I will be watching with great interest.

 

To anyone else that would like to subscribe to this thread, you might like to use the 'Thread Tools' then 'Subscribe to Thread' option.

 

Welcome aboard Maccas Mum,

 

Lex

[silverfox1961]

Hi Maccas Mum,

Her's my tuppenerth.

I was amazed how calm you were even though the bbc told you to.

These DCA's have no business to be in business with their phony threats.

I do have one worry. As it's your dads account and I don't recall it being said anywhere but do you have power of attorney? I would hate it if when he comes out of hospital that these creeps start to badger him again resulting in him relapsing.

Since I came to the CAG I have had so much support from the good people here and I'm sure you will too.

My thoughts are with you:-)

 

fox

[maccas-mum]

Hi,

 

Welcome to the CAG,

 

I was appalled by the way your case was dealt with, the threats from 1st Credit absolutely shocked me as much of what they said was very very misleading in my opinion.

 

I currently have a case which i am looking to issue proceedings on behalf of a client very very soon and we will be seeking to recover the excess money that has been paid under an unenforceable credit agreement

 

I note you say 1st will be paid, may i ask what the debt is for? is it a credit card? store card? loan?

 

Also which lender was it originally with?

 

It may be the case that your dads account is underpinned with a defective agreement and he may have already repaid the capital and further more may have an entitlement to recover the monies which he has paid over and above the capital

 

These companies work on fear, their threats are their weapons and once you see through this then they lose all their power

 

If you can let us know what the debt was made out of, then we can help you to deal with these people

Hi there it was a credit card with citi bank, he had never ever been in any debt before but eventually became unable to work ,to start with odd days off that became worse til he was working 1/2 days out of the month ,he wouldnt claim benefits and when he realised he had no alternative he was told because he was self employed he couldnt get anything because of his stamp.

He began robbing peter to pay paul and ended up in a real financial mess,they are all credit cards totaling #15.000 not #12.000 like panorama reported,as stated most are sympathetic after a while and huge amounts of charges.

Thankyou all for your help

[Josie8]

Hi there it was a credit card with citi bank, he had never ever been in any debt before but eventually became unable to work ,to start with odd days off that became worse til he was working 1/2 days out of the month ,he wouldnt claim benefits and when he realised he had no alternative he was told because he was self employed he couldnt get anything because of his stamp.

He began robbing peter to pay paul and ended up in a real financial mess,they are all credit cards totaling #15.000 not #12.000 like panorama reported,as stated most are sympathetic after a while and huge amounts of charges.

Thankyou all for your help

 

 

Well worthe checking the agreement if it is citibank

[ScarletPimpernel]

Well worthe checking the agreement if it is citibank

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Incidentally, whilst 1st Credit's telephone tactics came as no surprise, I did find their failure to appreciate what a 'section' under the MHA means particularly unsavoury.

 

First Credit are now on to a loser with this one.

Edited November 19, 2008 by caro
correcting typo

[robcag]

Hi Maccas Mum

 

I'm glad you finally got round to finding CAG and posting here about your adventures with 1st Cretins. You are in the right place and as Mr. lex has said above, you already have some of the 'big guns' making an appearance on your thread.

 

You've probably read other threads, but I'd just like to reassure you that 1st are mostly mouth and no trousers. Over a year ago I was in a similar position to what you find yourself in now, having had the 2 alleged debts to Citicard of both me and my partner sold on to 1st Cretins.

 

I had been paying an agreed reduced amount to Citi for a few months when 1st decided to stick their oar in and started both the phoning and letter harrassment. They were not happy with the amount I had been paying Citi and wanted more, eventually pressing for payment in full.

 

Various threats and suggestions were made over the phone, which as you know, is par for the course with these evil barstewards.

 

Just in time I found CAG and sent a CCA request to 1st Cretins for each of the 2 alleged accounts (by Special Delivery). I have proof (signature and postage proof) that they received both the requests.

 

Since that day, over a year ago, I have heard absolutely nothing (not even acknowledgement of the CCA requests) from the idiots. It seems that they have put their head back up their a55.

 

So I'd say go for it, follow the advice given regarding (especially) the CCA request and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) (no harm in doing both ). The CCA request should give you a quicker response, and hopefully the result will be similar to my experience.

 

Needless to say, whilst I was quite happy originally paying Citi a reduced amount, 1st Cretins have not had a penny out of me, nor will they unless they can prove the alleged debt and their right to collect on it.

 

Cheers, and good luck

Rob

[spamheed]

I too saw the representation on the Panorama programme and was appalled at how the whole situiation was orchestrated to show these vultures as playing fair with you. I understand that these call centre drones receive very little by way of training but I didn't think it included the diagnosing of mental conditions and the interpretation of legal documents ie. section notice.

 

Before worrying too much about the moral obligations of paying debts, I would take a very protective stance for your father, In your initial post your fondness for your father is very obvious and commendable.

 

When exactly did your father enter into an agreement with 1st Credit? the simple answer is - he never did, so what right have they to apply charges and dismiss your pleas in the way they did without criticism on National television. They will have paid coppers for this debt in the first place, another fact that was sadly missing from the BBC "expose'"

 

Fight them and make them prove that they have a right to collect from your father and that the relationship between your father and his creditors is legally binding. If they do not already have this documentation then what is it that they are attempting to enforce? on whose authority are they acting?

 

Just because they say that they have a right to collect from your father doesn't make it so. I had a mate who later in life claimed that he was Clint Eastwood. But I always had my doubts about that

[mina2974]

Hi Hun,

 

This is all fantastic advice and when you are ready I will help you as much as you need me:D

Trust me these guys know what they are talking about!

 

 

Mina2974

[pt2537]

Hi there it was a credit card with citi bank, he had never ever been in any debt before but eventually became unable to work ,to start with odd days off that became worse til he was working 1/2 days out of the month ,he wouldnt claim benefits and when he realised he had no alternative he was told because he was self employed he couldnt get anything because of his stamp.

He began robbing peter to pay paul and ended up in a real financial mess,they are all credit cards totaling #15.000 not #12.000 like panorama reported,as stated most are sympathetic after a while and huge amounts of charges.

Thankyou all for your help

 

I would suggest that a request for the agreement is essential, since 1st Credit are now the owners of the debt, they are duty bound to supply it and if they cannot then let us know and we will fillet their donkey for them:D

 

Please dont view this as trying to get out of the debt either, people tend to take this view, but look at it logically, your dad would have been paying capital and interest, now i bet for every £50 he paid £30 of it would be interest

 

Now if the agreement comes back as defective, you will find that while he may have borrowed say £5K he will have repaid £15K so would be entitled to a remedy before the court, arguably it would end up in your dad being owed money if the agreement is indeed defective

 

 

as soon as you receive a response let us know

[The GodMother]

Hi Maccas Mum.

 

I watched the program on iplayer the next day and found myself shouting how wrong everything was. I will admit that i thought you were a bit yes no over it but i can safely say that if they had shown the truth about 1st credit then the public would have been horrified.

 

I have had a few runnings with 1st credit. Like me it was to do with someone else but they have now stopped contacting me. I moved in to a coucil property where the previous tenants owe thousands in loans and credit cards. I had contacted first by sending all the letters back re the previous tenants and after one day of me recieving a letter from them in no envelope they recieved a lovely email advising them where to go.

 

i then recieved another letter saying we know u live there then i was on the phone to them giving them hell. they appologised and said they wont be contacting them at this addy again. True to there word i have not.

 

Good luck and i am glad u found us.

 

i will keep an eye on the thread to make sure they are behaving.

 

GM

[angel_1]

hiya Maccas Mum

 

like others that have posted before me, i just wanted to also say hiya and good luck and well done on joining us,

 

i too was shouting at the tv, like godmother, lol

 

there you go godmother, told you before great minds think alike

 

we are friendly bunch here and lots of info to give and share,

 

i hope we can at least reassure you for the time being, and before long you will have gained so much knowledge, it will surprise you ,

 

click on my name and have a look at my threads so far

 

knowledge is power - so take care for now and i also will subscribe to see how things are

 

ciao for now MAZ

Edited November 18, 2008 by maz1964