Barclaycard - CCA Response

[izzitme101]

i feel your pain minnimes, i sent second cpr to barclays and first to bc last week, i havent heard a peep for two months from either tho, im wondering if theyr working on who to sell them to

[ska1664]

Hi minnimes, already sent cpr to them they have just ignored it.

 

ska

[42man]

You have made more than a reasonable effort to get hold of the agreement.....if the CCA request fails, the SAR fails and they don't respond to the CPR31.16 then the only way to go would be like smt37...If all else had failed, get a judge to rule it.... I can't see it going any other way than in your favour.....

[ska1664]

Thanks 42man for your help

 

ska

[debt4get]

I have just received this letter from Sharklycard:

 

 

Anybody else had this from those rogues at Sharklycard, also is this correct?

 

Do I ignore them or should I be doing something else, especially as they are selling on the debt to an outside DCA?

 

Is the account still in dispute?

 

ska

i also received this wonderful piece of smokescreen this morning am wondering why sharkleycard just dont give us the agreement... surely its in their interest... anyway anyone any idea where to go next?

[the_shadow]

i also received this wonderful piece of smokescreen this morning am wondering why sharkleycard just dont give us the agreement... surely its in their interest... anyway anyone any idea where to go next?

 

Either a complaint to FOS or via the CPR method which will involve court.

 

S.

[Gazza112]

i also received this wonderful piece of smokescreen this morning am wondering why sharkleycard just dont give us the agreement... surely its in their interest... anyway anyone any idea where to go next?

 

 

Hi Dept4get

 

Your find that's just a standard template letter that Barclay's send out.

A lot of us on here have received the same letter in the last few weeks.

Have you gone down the 31.16 route with Barclays

 

Gaz

[debt4get]

no gaz havent bothered just sent em the cca request and they sent the usual rubbish, replied with the you have not complied, and they then sent this reply

Im gonna wait now and see if they go down the court route if they dont they can sling their hook

[Cab139]

Evening All,

 

This is a copy of the letter that I've just received from Barclaycrad concerning the CCA request. Like to hear any comments please........

 

 

Barclaycard Services

Account Number 9999 9999 9999 9999

Reference: Section 78 of the Credit Consumer Act 1974

I write further to the letter whereby you note dissatisfaction to the documents you received in relation to a request made under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Firstly, credit cards are regulated under Section 78. Section 78(1) of the Act states that the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement and a statement of account which is practicable to refer. Regarding a statement of account which is practicable to refer, the letters which we send in response to a Section 78(1) request includes this information. To cover the issue of executed agreement.

How does the Act define an “executed agreement”?

“Executed Agreement” is defined in section 189 of the Act as “a document, signed by or on behalf of the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement”.

What do the rules say about providing a copy?

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (“the regulations”) made under the Act de4al with how we are to provide a “copy” of an agreement. The regulations provide that any copy of the agreement supplied to a debtor should be a ‘true’ copy. Regulation 3(2) provides that a copy may omit certain information, which allows you to be provided with a true copy, not a complete copy.

What happens if the original agreement has been varied since it was originally signed?

The Regulations also set out what should happen where the agreement has been varied since it was signed. Regulation 7 provides creditors with a choice of including in the copy of the executed agreement either a copy of the latest notice of variation relationg to each discrete term which has been varied, or an easily legible statement of the terms varied. Regulation 7 does not state that the copy of the agreement shall include a statement of the original terms as well as a statement of the varied terms. Regulation 7 allows us to provide you with a “true copy” which sets out the terms and conditions current at the time of provision of the copy.

Conclusions in relation to the documents we have to provide.

A “copy” of an agreement will satisfy the requirements even if the signature box and/or the signatures are not included as clarified by Regulation 3(2) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

The definition of “executed agreement” refers to a document embodying the terms of the regulated agreement. When this is read with Regulation 7 – for agreements that have been varied – a copy of the original agreement would not embody its terms. A copy of the agreement as varied would embody its terms.

The issue of what is an executed agreement has been interpreted in the High Court. It was held that an executed agreement begins as the credit agreement which is sent to the cardholder when they receive their credit card: therefore, establishing what is the original executed agreement. When the agreement has been varied, Regulation 7 mentioned above applies.

To summarise, if the agreement has not been varied, we must send the original executed agreement: this would be the credit agreement which is is currently regulated. If the credit agreement has been varied, we must send the current credit agreement as this will contain the terms of the regulated agreement. We have sent you this and the original executed agreement for reference.

To address any issue about our lack of comp-liance with Section 60 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 60 relates to the form and content agreements. All Barclaycard credit agreements are in comp-liance with this. You may state that the application form which we provided you, for reference, when you made a request under Section 78 does not adhere to Section 60. This is not a complete copy of your application form, but rather an excerpt to show you signed a contract with us. When you completed your application form, the document would have been presented to you in full, in a legible form, and would have adhered to the requirements under Section 60 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I hope this letter has helped with your concerns about the documents you have been supplied with under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As our response fulfils the obligation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, you should carry on paying the debt you have accrued on your account. We do not class the account as in dispute, you have been supplied with the relevant documentation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and we will carry on with collection services. If you send us further correspondence questioning compliance with these areas of law, we are not obliged to respond beyond the statutory response we have already given you. We would require you to provide comprehensive legal and documentary evidence to support your claim to ascertain whether response is necessary.

Yours sincerely

Donna Farley

Barclaycard Customer Services

[darkhorse53]

I've got the exact same letter but from a Mr Sefton at Barclaycard,Barclaycard(Morgan Stanley) and Barclaycard(Goldfish). I picked up another Barclaycard thread and the contributors seemed to have a legal background, infact one worked for a legal firm. They mentioned this line of response and Mr Sefton and had informed him to swot up on Regulation 2.This thread was difficult for me to follow as it assumed we all knew what they were writing about. Regulation 2 anyone and why it has relevance to this Barclaycard letter???

[izzitme101]

i received that letter myself yesterday to

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/202029-me-bc-cpr-reply.html

 

that was my reply to cpr request.

[ska1664]

Hi Cab139

 

I have also received that from the Sharks at Barclaycard I would say that although they may have complied with s78 they have not fulfilled your cca request and if what they have provided is what they want to rely on in court then they are on a very sticky wicket

 

ska

[izzitme101]

well i only got an unreadable copy of conditions for cca, i didnt fancy buggering about for months on end, so i sent the dispute and first cpr letter in reply lol.

Unfortunately, when someone is being unreasonable, i have a tendency to get aggresive very quickly (not physically)

[Cab139]

Anyone guide me to the next part of this? I've seen CPR 31.16 mentioned. Can someone point me in the right direction to have a read on this. Should I not SAR them first?

[ska1664]

Just when I thought all quiet on the western front a letter from another load of threat monkeys:

 

 

Well firstly anybody had dealings with this lot before? and more importantly suggestions for an appropriate letter greatly appreciated.

 

Also can they really charge interest on a disputed account?

 

ska

[lickthewallfatboy]

yeah-I chased them a few months back

 

tell them clear off in no uncertain terms

[Spamalot]

Just when I thought all quiet on the western front a letter from another load of threat monkeys:

 

 

 

Well firstly anybody had dealings with this lot before? and more importantly suggestions for an appropriate letter greatly appreciated.

 

Also can they really charge interest on a disputed account?

 

ska

 

They normally try anything in the hopes that the threatened person will roll over and pay up. They don't expect to come across anyone who is clued up, and when they do, they pass you on!

 

Just send them the bemused account in dispute letter and let them get on with it.... That's my humble opinion anyway. ;-)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/204322-ruthbridge-limited-help-needed.html#post2226475

 

There's an example in the above post

 

Spam.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Spamalot
Adding Info

[mothsinmywallet]

Been there, done that, told them to @&^% off.

 

Debt Managers are a joke...... I called them once re: my Sharklycard debt and their opening line of their script is "are you calling to pay the balance in full by card today?"..... replied "no"......... then they say "why not?" ..... "dohhhh, if I had the money would I be talking to monkeys like you?".... "Ok" they said I can split the payment into 2.......... you sort of guess the rest of the conversation.

 

They give an Edinburgh address but its a Rotherham / Yorkshire call centre.

 

Debt Managers can easily be derailed by sending a letter to the Compliance Manager stating that the account is in dispute. Enclose evidence of any dealings with Barclaycard and state that whilst the account is in dispute its an offence to chase the debt (hence go forth) and ask for the account to be returned back to their client.

 

You should get a letter back to say so.

 

I am pondering what to do next, I tried tackling Barclaycard head on to get the balance zero'd and the credit reference listing erased but they dont answer what you asked and keep sending copies of T&Cs. I dont want to wait another 3 years for it to drop off my credit file and may up the ante with them and see if anyone wants to take on a no win no fee case.

[Duffers Mum]

It infuriates me that these idiots can charge interest on any debt let alone a disputed debt. When I had problems with B/C I refused to deal with anybody else and no matter who wrote to me, I replied to Barclaycard, got rid of them eventually by offering a F&F, however I am expecting them to pop out of the woodwork again shortly as my Goldfish account has been returned by Cabot (shame) to whoever now own Goldfish, which I think, unfortunately is Barclaycard, actually quite looking forward to getting the ropey default notice from good old Mercers!

 

Good luck

[izzitme101]

i got the same letter as in post 184 last week, after some thought i sent a reply, the one pointing out their failings under the cca, then added at the bottom that my previous letter waqs cpr not cca, and that they should pass it to their legal team if they dont understand it, with 14 days to reply.

[ska1664]

Bemused Account in dispute letter sent by recorded.

 

I will up date thread with their response.

 

ska

[Dorabell]

you will probably get a letter back saying sorry we are no longer dealing with the account and pass it back to there client or cannot find the copy at this moment good luck ska:)

[ska1664]

Thanks Dorabell

 

ska

[Wilma Shoozfit]

After months of beating my head against a brick wall trying to get missing statements and a copy of the credit agreement out of B/C I took them to court for non-compliance of my SAR. As a result I got my statements and an unreadable copy of a credit application.

The case is still ongoing as they submitted a defence - In the meantime B/C have started playing silly beggars - Mercers, doorstep visitors, default notices for not complying with minimum payments – all since I issued the summons.

I’ve also been sent this letter.

The upshot of this is I have requested to amend my POC - and I've sent a copy of my letter to the courts suggesting that B/C are pre-empting any ruling the Court may have regarding the validity of the application form and drew the Courts attention to the final sentence:- "We would require you to provide comprehensive legal and documentary evidence to support your claim to ascertain whether response is necessary"

I always thought that B/C's left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing was a "frustration" tactic they used. But now I'm not so sure. To send me a letter like this when I'm actually in the process of seeking the information via a Court order is in my mind is either a pretty dumb manoeuvre or arrogance beyond belief.

It’s out of my hands at the moment and the wheels of justice grind exceedingly slow – but I’ll update my thread if I get anywhere with the Courts regarding this letter.

Catch up with you all later

Wils

[angel_1]

hiya all and thank you Wilma for your post, its the exact sentence in responce to the cpr letter we all sent, therefore i still think they are stalling

 

but now that has infuriated me too that its the same even if you are lodging a formal court action,,,, i think its trying to push out the ones they really dont need to deal with if people get fed up and then only defend the ones that actually do end up at the court date

 

im going to relook at my options now in light of your post, thank you

laters all angel x