And me!I think there's a lot ging on behind the scenes that we will NEVER know about. Regarding these reconstructed agreements, can we all have a go??Does it mean everyone can start reconstructed agreements?The possibilities are endless? Anyone actually got there money back from BF yet?

Well, I've just said good-bye to £415(I opted to pay on the installment plan)My guess is that if there is enough bad publicity BF will quietly slide away only to re-emerge at some later date with a totally different name.

I've had the same letter, as I had been reassured that the fee was refundable if the case didn't go to court so many times verbally and that they would only keep the original £35 for admin purposes, I asked to see the agreement I had signed.And they sent me one-it said that I would start topay installments of £95 (x4) once it had been accepted by their solicitor. But they had said it wouldn't be sent to a solicitor unless it had a strong chance of winning so what had I to lose and they really pressured me to send all my credit agreements to them.After this judge closed the loophole apparently there's no chance but the case had already been sent to a solicitor so I guess that closes their loophole too! We had been warned so many times, but if I was honest part of me thought it was worth the risk and the other part thought warnings were misinformation spread by the dirty tricks dept of CCC. I really thought these people had more substance and were going to disect the contract not just rely on non-compliance but they just seem to have said'Okay then!You win!' When Barclaycard &Marks &Spencer finally responded to FOS requests for my agreements they could only produce application forms, I gather from recent developments these are now acceptable.

Thanks for that, that's what I thought too.BF certainly thought it was and Monster Claims(name is really enough to put you off). It just goes to show how quickly and easily these people try to manipulate us.

In fairness, the letter was from BF, once I spoke directly to the solicitors it was a different picture. On a slightly different note-I used Torston to assess some other cards. I have just had word back from them to say they can't submit my claim for Barclaycard to a solicitor because the agreements are valid-BUT Barclaycard have only sent the standard T&C that they send everyone, no signed agreement even to a claims company.Torston say they have fulfilled their obligation under section 78 to supply an executed agreement and could produce a signed agreemet later at court so they won't take it on. I understood if they did this it would go against them. Confident!EEEK! Just very confused, so many different angles!

New developments!I've thought about what MBNA were actually saying and they said partial settlement, which means they could come back at me for more later(and probably would)-so not such a good offer! If you sign the agreement with a solicitor, it is usually worded that they recover their costs from the other side . If you make an agreement with the ccc, they can't do that so you have to pay them.They wouldn't have charged me since the stay was announced because they were backing out not me..... BUT I've spoken with the solicitors in question and we have agreed to still go for it once the stay is removed which could actually be sooner than March.They haven't produced a signed agreement which I'm told they normally would once a solicitor gets involved, they also hiked their rate up from 16% apr to 35%, applied dubious penalty fees and told loads of lies so it don't look good for them.In the meantime they say they will help me deal with any flack from DCA. so not so bad as I expected.

I have just had word from the solicitors appointed by BF that because of a stay on cases until MARCH 2009 the barristers my case had been passed on to cannot now accept to act for me until after this date. The solicitors advise me to keep paying the min payment(I had to stop doing this in March this year as I first paid my assessment fee in November 2008 and just couldn't afford it) The solicitors suggest that if I've already paid most of the balance by next March, it won't be worth pursuing then anyway. The annoying thing is I paid £35 last Nov and when the case was passed to the barrister I had to start paying monthly installments of £95, ccc offered a deal of a settlement figure of £6000 less than my balance or interest free reduced monthly payments if I accepted before 28th October but I couldn't accept then without massive legal fees from the solicitor as I had signed a legally binding contract to that effect.Now the solicitor has backed out I have probably missed the boat in striking a deal with ccc and am £425 down in fees to BF. I guess the recent legal developments re stays aren't BFs fault but I do feel a bit:-|

The site is moneysupermarket and a lot of the posts are very informative and helpful, but just recently there have been a few that seem to be pushing towards getting a repayment plan organised otherwise you'll be chased by one DCA after another.If anyone wants to take a peek at posts by huckster(am I allowed to say that on here?) It's good to know that someone is nearing the end of 6 years without experiencing a host of DCAs camped out on their doorstep.I'm beginning to think these guys might just be 'plants'. I feel much better already-thanks!

Thanks sunshine, on my good days I think'If they can't do anything but bluster, bring it on!' on not so good days I think'oh no!' There has been so many successes on this website that I am hoping that the debt remains on your file until it slides off in 6 years, but these DCA can be a bit of a pain in the whatzit even if you are aware of their limitations and your rights. I'd just like some feed back from others who have been through the process.

I've been reading about successes that caggers have had proving that agreements are unenforcable. Just recently, I have read several threads on another consumer forum that suggests that this is not the end of the matter.They claim that the CCC then sell the debt on to DCA, and the whole process starts again with letters and phone calls, if they don't have any luck , they sell it on -and so the process continues often beyond the 6 year period. So we can look forward to years of being hounded.These people seem to talk with great knowledge and authority. I have several agreements which I am challenging, and I'm now wondering what the truth is. I did put a post of the consumer forum pointing out that there were a lot of successes documented on this site but they indicated that this was merely the calm before the storm and these caggers hadn't really 'won' as the debt would do the rounds. I'm hoping that these posters are part of a conspiracy of misinformation formulated by cccs. I'd love to hear from caggers who could prove them wrong!

I went down the agreement request route with 2 accounts with Marks &Spencer in Feb 2009 and they could only produce application forms which def did not contain the prescribed elements, only my bank details and employment details.They maintain these are enforceable and I do not. We weren't getting anywhere but I made an arrangement in April to pay £15 a month,which I thought meant they would stop adding late charges etc and freeze interest, but they carried on doing it anyway.So I refered the matter to FOS , they then refunded the charges but not the interest. The arrangement finished in June and then they wanted all the difference between the agreed payments and the minimum payments within 7 days of the last payment going through.Very quickly they involved DCA (but at the same address).Their tone was very aggressive you will have to pay court costs, bailifs will call at the house, we could put a charge against the house etc but this was not in writing , it was when I called to tell them that the matter was in the hands of FOS. We have left it that we will speak again on Wednesday about an arrangement. M&S have agreed to refund the interest from April , they haven't put a DN on my account yet(they originally said they had) they will accept £15 on each account as a long term arrangement with interest frozen,but WILL HAVE TO default the accounts on my credit file as the payments are less than 1% of the balances. If I could pay 1% payments of the balances there would be no default. This was always an acceptable solution for me (apart from the DN) I always wanted a plan to enable me to pay the debt back without racking up even more debt, but I don't believe they are allowed to put DN on my files without an enforceable agreement. So what would be the best way to tackle this? To make the £15 payment plan and when challenge DN through FOS or court, this would take the heat off ....or Refuse to budge on Wednesday. I'm not sure if accepting the payment plan would put a block on fighting the DN. I've read so much about this on different threads and sent the letters that seem to apply , my main problem is getting things in a logical format and I'm in danger of missing an important point.And I believe that DCA should not be making statements that are untrue(guidelines from OFT may 2008)but how do I get it across without seeming too aggressive. It seems very all or nothing, I guess they take the view that if they concede I have a point , I might just back out altogether. They have to pile on the pressure with scare and bluff tactics. I fear I'm starting to ramble on a bit too much, I hope you understand what I'm getting at.Could anyone help me focus more clearly please?

So if I understand the position,the business is breaking even but not paying either you or your friend a wage?But does it pay back the loan? If you owe back rent is this getting more or less? Have you tried negiotating a lower rent with your landlord? LOnger payment terms for your loan? How long are you tied in with your lease if you decided it would be more cost effective to use your time in alernative employent? I think the only way I could get it clear in my head would be to do 2 projections, the first keeping on the business and exploring all avenues for cutting expediture, reducing loan repayments,checking out benefit entitlement etc. and seeing where that leads. The second letting go of the business and taking other employment and doing a debt management plan, you might find that you could be entitled to tax credits, housing benefit etc .There's a site called 'entitledto.co.uk' or 'entitledto.com' It's important to get down on paper whether the business is pulling you further down and you are only sticking with it because you feel you have no option and you could be better off calling it a day and cutting your loses. I know this can be a very emotive issue and I am in a similiar position, I'm just trying to work out whether I'm propping up the business or it's propping me up,how much could I reasonably expect to earn if I get a job? if I couldn't get a job , how the benefits would work out ?etc I know I've given you more questions than answers, but I hope it helps anyway.There's always a way, it's just difficult to see clearly when you are so bogged down with it all. Good luck

I've got the exact same letter but from a Mr Sefton at Barclaycard,Barclaycard(Morgan Stanley) and Barclaycard(Goldfish). I picked up another Barclaycard thread and the contributors seemed to have a legal background, infact one worked for a legal firm. They mentioned this line of response and Mr Sefton and had informed him to swot up on Regulation 2.This thread was difficult for me to follow as it assumed we all knew what they were writing about. Regulation 2 anyone and why it has relevance to this Barclaycard letter???

I've done and been through all this with BC, they just ignore everything, it's like it all disappears into a big hole. I even rang them and they say they do not respond to letters!!!!! They've passed it on to Mercers who have passed it on to Scotcall who specialise in doorstep calls. There are some good templates to counter this behaviour in the template section. THey should receive them on Wednesday. Hopefully it will stop any unwelcome callers. I've sent the dispute on to Financial Ombudsman, I'm hoping they think I've tried to be reasonable as I offered reduced payments because of hardship and they ignored this offer too.I'm also hoping that because I've sent a copy of the Fin Ombud acknowledgement that they will hold off until there is a remedy on the table. Sometimes I feel like I must be writing in a foreign language. Is there anyone out there who has managed to cut through this non-communication barrier they have erected?

Cunning Plan, thanks , it's very reassuring.I'll still be following this thread and start my own if I have something to say. I didn't want to hijack this one, I just thought we were on the same path(don't really know how this works yet)

I've just been checking out Monster Loans in Manchester, I think they might be a better option as they don't want so much cash up front and are more forthcoming about possible legal fees.But the proof of the pudding and all that.......... The scary thing about Brunel Franklin was, their 'consultant' led me to believe you paid the fee and that was that, but the reality is you could be liable for much more later on!

I too would find such a template useful, if these agreements aren't enforceable what are your rights exactly?M&S just aren't taking me seriously enough. I've read quite a bit about coming to an arrangement with these companies, but M&S are registering adverse info on my credit file and just blanking my letters(I suspect a common tactic)so I feel they have a powerful lever. They just aren't acknowleging the point.I would like more ammo. And thanks for all comments, much appreciated.

I'm currently using them for an MBNA card and the answer is-I don't know yet! I approached them and paid an assessment fee of £25 last November. The process seems so slow-I've only just sent back the papers to authoritise the solicitors to act for me. It's a bit scary when you read through the documents and realise that in the worst case scenario you might end up paying on top of the referal fees and even if you win you could still be paying out for all sorts of stuff. The solicitors estimate that their fees could be about £2500 which they hope to claim back from the other side and there is an insurance policy in place (£500) to protect you from excessive legal costs, which they pay for you but is ultimately on your bill.It really is not so simple as paying your fee and sitting back while they wipe your debts out. My feeling is that if you have a small balance do it yourself through the small claims court(is this an option) because costs are minimal, but if you have a big balance it may be worth the extra muscle these guys seem to have. But who knows? I too would like a bit of insight into the murky waters of the legal system. I'll try to keep you up updated on my progress.

I am watching this thread with interest as it is very similiar to 2 CCA I received from Marks and Spencer Money- one for the credit card and one from the Personal Reserve(flexible loan account) . To my untrained eye they are clearly missing several important elements.Surely they can't just rely on refering to separate T&C, this would be open to too much abuse and misinterpretation. It's the first time I've done anything like this and I'm extremely nervous about the whole thing.What do you do next if these agreements aren't enforceable. I spoke breifly to M&s and they said'what are you bothering about in 2002, we are trying to sort your account out now.'!!!!! I'm sure there must be a useful thread, but I can't seem to find it.

I've just been reading in link-General Debt Issues-Consumer Credit Agreements-copies of agreements -and it states that credit card companies often just send the application form or terms and conditions and this complies with 1983 regs. Also that enforcabality is another issue. I was hoping that I could get Marks and Spencer and Barclaycard on the non-production of agreements , Marks and spencer sent copy of application form with no terms on but refered to separate terms and conditions leaflet and barclaycard just sent me T&C Sheet and refered me to their website. I've done the 12 days then 30 days thing, telling them they can't ask for payment or tell credit reference agencies. Now I'm wondering if I've done the right thing????? I'd appreciate some feedback from anyone who has tried this-please!

I'm not really trying to get out of paying my debts, I just don't want credit cards hiking up my interest rates as soon as they realise I'm having difficulty making payments. Any useful leads????