Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Thank you very much for your help. To answer your two questions:  1. I did not send a CPR request when the Claim Form arrived. 2. They did send a claim form, in March 2023. This is the document from which I copied the particulars of their claim.  
    • Thanks. That's a lot to wade through.  Will get on to it. Two other quick questions. Did you send them a CPR request when the claim form arrived? Are you sure they didn't send a Letter of Claim before they sued you?
    • Hi there, Here is the sticky filled out as best as possible:  Which Court have you received the claim from? MCOL (County Court Business Centre, Northampton) Name of the Claimant: Uk Parking Control Limited Claimants Solicitors: DCB Legal Date of issue: March 2023 Following events: — DQ sent to me July 2023 — I filed a DQ in September 2023 — My claim was transferred to [my local court] September 2023 — Received Notice of Allocation to Small Claims Track (Hearing) including date for hearing in April 2024 — Witness statement due by May 14 — Claimant must pay court fees by May 17 — Court hearing on June 18   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. 1. The defendant is indebted to the claimant for a Parking Charge issued at [x] issued to vehicle [__] at Walcot Yard, Walcot Road, Bath, Ba1 5bg. 2. The PCN details are [___]. 3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), this incurring the PCNs. 4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. The Contract entitles C to damages.  AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1. £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of [x]p until judgement or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees   What is the value of the claim? ~260 Amount Claimed ~170 court fees ~35 legal rep fees ~50 Total Amount  ~260   Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No   Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? No Here is the defence I filed:  DEFENCE 1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all. It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars. The facts as known to the Defendant: 2. It is admitted that on the material date the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, but liability is denied. 3. While working at a nearby premises, [___] the Defendant was informed by the manager that they had an informal verbal agreement with the developer and owner operator of [___], which supposedly allowed them to park there. Based on this information, the Defendant parked their car there in good faith. The Defendant was not aware of any restrictions or limitations to this agreement, and therefore believed that they had the right to park there without penalty. 4. The Defendant avers that the Claimant failed to serve a Notice to Keeper compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Consequently, the claimant cannot transfer liability for this charge to the Defendant as keeper of the vehicle. 5. The Particulars of Claim ('POC') appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action”. 6. The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case is being pursued. 7. The POC are entirely inadequate, in that they fail to particularise (a) the contractual term(s) relied upon; (b) the specifics of any alleged breach of contract; and (c) how the purported and unspecified 'damages' arose and the breakdown of the exaggerated quantum. 8. The claim has been issued via Money Claims Online and, as a result, is subject to a character limit for the Particulars of Claim section of the Claim Form. The fact that generic wording appears to have been applied has obstructed any semblance of clarity. The Defendant trusts that the court will agree that a claim pleaded in such generic terms lacks the required details and requires proper particularisation in a detailed document within 14 days, per 16PD.3 9. The guidance for completing Money Claims Online confirms this and clearly states: "If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra, more detailed particulars on the defendant, tick the box that appears after the statement 'you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant.'" 10. No further particulars have been filed and to the Defendant's knowledge, no application asking the court service for more time to serve and/or relief from sanctions has been filed either. 11. In view of it having been entirely within the Claimant's Solicitors' gift to properly plead the claim at the outset and the claim being for a sum, well within the small claims limit, such that the Defendant considers it disproportionate and at odds with the overriding objective (in the context of a failure by the Claimant to properly comply with rules and practice directions) for a Judge to throw the erring Claimant a lifeline by ordering further particulars (to which a further defence might be filed, followed by further referral to a Judge for directions and allocation) the court is respectfully invited to strike this claim out. 13. Whilst the new Code and Act is not retrospective, it was enacted due to the failure of the self-serving BPA & IPC Codes of Practice. The Minister is indisputably talking about existing (not future) cases when declaring that 'recovery' fees were 'designed to extort money'. A clear steer for the Courts which it is hoped overrides mistakes made in a few appeal cases that the parking industry desperately rely upon (Britannia v Semark-Jullien, One Parking Solution v Wilshaw, Vehicle Control Services v Ward and Vehicle Control Services v Percy). 14. Far from being persuasive, regrettably these one-sided appeals saw Circuit Judges led in one direction by Counsel for parking firms, and the litigant-in-person consumers lacked the wherewithal to appeal. In case this Claimant tries to rely upon these, the Defendant avers that errors were made in every case. Evidence was either overlooked (including signage discrepancies in Wilshaw, where the Judge was also oblivious to the BPA Code of Practice and the DVLA KADOE requirement for landowner authority) or the Judge inexplicably sought out and quoted from the wrong Code altogether (Percy). In Ward, a few seconds' emergency stop out of the control of the driver was unfairly aligned with the admitted parking contract in Beavis. Those learned Judges were not in possession of the same level of information as the DLUHC, whose incoming statutory Code of Practice now clarifies such matters as a definition of 'parking' as well as consideration and grace periods and minor matters such as 'keying errors' or 'fluttering tickets/permits' where a PCN should not have been issued at all, or should have been cancelled in the pre-action dispute phase. POFA and CRA breaches 15. Pursuant to Schedule 4 paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('the POFA') the sum claimed exceeds the maximum potentially recoverable from a registered keeper, even in cases where a firm may have complied with other POFA requirements (adequate signage, Notice to Keeper wording/dates, and a properly communicated 'relevant contract/relevant obligation'). If seeking keeper/hirer liability - unclear from the POC - the Claimant is put to strict proof of full compliance and liability transferred. 16. Claiming costs on an indemnity basis is unfair, per the Unfair Contract Terms Guidance (CMA37, para 5.14.3), the Government guidance on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 ('CRA'). The CRA introduced new requirements for 'prominence' of both contract terms and 'consumer notices'. In a parking context, this includes signage and all notices, letters and other communications intended to be read by the consumer. 17. Section 71 creates a duty upon courts to consider the test of fairness, including (but not limited to) whether all terms/notices were unambiguously and conspicuously brought to the attention of a consumer. Signage must be prominent, plentiful, well placed and lit, and all terms unambiguous and obligations clear. The Defendant avers that the CRA has been breached due to unfair/unclear terms and notices, pursuant to s62 and paying due regard to examples 6, 10, 14 & 18 of Schedule 2 and the requirements for fair/open dealing and good faith. ParkingEye v Beavis is distinguished (lack of legitimate interest/prominence of terms) 18. ParkingEye overcame the possibility of their £85 charge being dismissed as punitive, however the Supreme Court clarified that ‘the penalty rule is plainly engaged’ in parking cases, which must each be determined on their own facts. That 'unique' case met a commercial justification test, and took into account the prominent yellow/black uncluttered signs with £85 in the largest/boldest text. Rather than causing other parking charges to be automatically justified, the Beavis case facts set a high bar that this Claimant has failed to reach. 19. Paraphrasing from the Supreme Court, deterrence is likely to be penal if there is a lack of a 'legitimate interest' in performance extending beyond the prospect of compensation flowing directly from the alleged breach. The intention cannot be to punish a driver, nor to present them with hidden terms, unexpected/cumbersome obligations nor 'concealed pitfalls or traps'. 20. In the present case, the Claimant has fallen foul of those tests. The Claimant’s small signs have vague/hidden terms and a mix of small font, and are considered incapable of binding a driver. Consequently, it remains the Defendant’s position that no contract to pay an onerous 'penalty' was seen or agreed. Binding Court of Appeal authorities which are on all fours with a case involving unclear terms and a lack of ‘adequate notice’ of a parking charge, include: (i) Spurling v Bradshaw [1956] 1 WLR 461 (‘red hand rule’) and (ii) Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] EWCA Civ2, both leading authorities confirming that a clause cannot be incorporated after a contract has been concluded; and (iii) Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest: CA 5 Apr 2000, where Ms Vine won because it was held that she had not seen the terms by which she would later be bound, due to "the absence of any notice on the wall opposite the parking space'' (NB: when parking operator Claimants cite Vine, they often mislead courts by quoting out of context, Roch LJ's words about the Respondent’s losing case, and not from the ratio). 21. Fairness and clarity of terms and notices are paramount in the statutory Code and this is supported by the BPA & IPC Trade Bodies. In November 2020's Parking Review, solicitor Will Hurley, CEO of the IPC, observed: "Any regulation or instruction either has clarity or it doesn’t. If it’s clear to one person but not another, there is no clarity. The same is true for fairness. Something that is fair, by definition, has to be all-inclusive of all parties involved – it’s either fair or it isn’t. The introduction of a new ‘Code of Practice for Parking’ provides a wonderful opportunity to provide clarity and fairness for motorists and landowners alike." Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR 22. DVLA data is only supplied to pursue parking charges if there is an agreement flowing from the landholder (ref: KADOE rules). It is not accepted that this Claimant (an agent of a principal) has authority from the landowner to issue charges in this place in their own name. The Claimant is put to strict proof that they have standing to make contracts with drivers and litigate in their own name. 23. The Claimant failed to offer a genuinely independent Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). The Appeals Annex in the new incoming statutory Code shows that genuine disputes such as this would see the charge cancelled, had a fair ADR existed. Whether or not a person engaged with it, the Claimant's consumer blame culture and reliance upon the industry's own 'appeals service' should not sway the court into a belief that a fair appeal was ever on offer. The rival Trade Bodies' time-limited and opaque 'appeals' services fail to properly consider facts or rules of law and reject almost any dispute: e.g. the IAS upheld appeals in a woeful 4% of decided cases (IPC's 2020 Annual Report). Conclusion 24. The claim is entirely without merit. The Defendant believes that it is in the public interest that claims like this should be struck out because knowingly enhanced parking claims like this one cause consumer harm on a grand scale. 25. There is ample evidence to support the view - long held by many District Judges - that these are knowingly exaggerated claims. For HMCTS to only disallow those costs in the tiny percentage of cases that reach hearings whilst other claims to continue to flood the courts unabated, is to fail hundreds of thousands of consumers who suffer CCJs or pay inflated amounts, in fear of intimidating pre-action threats. 26. In the matter of costs, the Defendant asks: (a) at the very least, for standard witness costs for attendance at Court, pursuant to CPR 27.14, and (b) for a finding of unreasonable conduct by this Claimant, seeking costs pursuant to CPR 46.5. 27. Attention is drawn specifically to the (often-seen from this industry) distinct possibility of an unreasonably late Notice of Discontinuance. Whilst CPR r.38.6 states that the Claimant is liable for the Defendant's costs after discontinuance (r.38.6(1)) this does not normally apply to claims allocated to the small claims track (r.38.6(3)). However, the White Book states (annotation 38.6.1): "Note that the normal rule as to costs does not apply if a claimant in a case allocated to the small claims track serves a notice of discontinuance although it might be contended that costs should be awarded if a party has behaved unreasonably (r.27.14(2)(dg))." Statement of Truth I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
    • Hi, I was caught by the security guards today for shoplifting in John Lewis. I think total amount is about £500. They said they saw me on CCTV last week, I was freaked out so I admitted it. I know it’s awful… I cried as I was too scared and begged them pls don’t call the police. They took pics of me and wrote down my details from banking app as I didn’t have any id with me. I told them my difficulties that I was scammed £35k recently and I lost my job so I stole those things and sell them. I apologised and they said they won’t call the police but I’m banned and will receive letters from RLP for fines which including this time and the last time(I didn’t give back the goods I took last time). I know it’s very very bad, I feel shameful and so depressed so hopeless about everything happened. I wonder since it’s a lot of money, will they sue me, take me to the court, or will they change their mind to call the police when they check the cctv footage to check how much I owe them? I said sorry I really couldn’t afford the fine at this situation, they said it’s their job they can’t do anything. Later when I was out of the mall, the security guard said, I can call RLP to negotiate about the fee. Also I’m probably moving to another city in 2 months, so if they want to take me to court but I didn’t receive any letters what should I do… and the security guy told me it’s worse as I traveled to this city and stealing stuff. I’m home now but feeling awful, wish people could give me some advice, thank you very much.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Possible perjury case help needed please


UK26
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2418 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I have to be very basic in the info i give for legal reasons but wonder if i can get some advise

 

Person A, Purchases a Holiday in Person A's Name. Person A Invites Person B to join the Holiday.

 

Can a Council Contact the Holiday company and request booking info who was on the list if they wanted to check out person B where Person A is not subject of any involvement / investigations.

 

can the council / under data protection obtain this info legally?

 

Person B is under investigation by council and Person A is not in any way linked to this other then the invite to come on Holiday.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

No because the holiday is booked by person A and I assume paid for by person A...its merely a gift to person B

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andy,

 

Not sure if you understood.

This is not a benefit case.

 

its person B should not have been there (school term time) and the council have obtained the booking info from the holiday company to use in a case.

 

Person A was the lead booker and paid in full using Person A Debit Card.

Person B was then listed as a guest on my booking.

 

The Holiday company have released info which i think may be in breach of DPA and therefore the evidence obtained cannot be used for evidence.

Link to post
Share on other sites

parent/ child yes they can same family the kid should be in school..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You say in brackets school term time.

Why?

 

I'll be short, is a criminal act going to take place like shouldn't be in an area due to restraining order or the like?

A young person going on holiday without permission from guardians permission etc etc

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Holiday company have released info which i think may be in breach of DPA and therefore the evidence obtained cannot be used for evidence.

 

In the USA there is the "fruit of the poisonous tree" concept : if a search was unlawful the evidence resulting from it is inadmissible (unless they find a provision to shoe-horn it in such as 'inevitable discovery').

 

It isn't quite that simple in England & Wales.

A court might not allow it, or might choose to do so.

The court has wide latitude in its discretion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If, as I suspect, this is about the council prosecuting for a child taken on holiday in school term time then in general the Data Protection Act exemption for criminal prosecution applies.

 

Councils are the prosecuting authority for unauthorised non-attendance at school so can ask for any information which they need for the prosecution of offenders and the data holder who discloses it will normally not have breached the Data Protection Act because of the exemption in s29 of the Act.

 

The fact that the full booking might include information about people (ie you) who the council did not prosecute is unlikely to mean the disclosure of what the council requested was illegal or not covered by the exemption.

 

After all, when police or council investigators are seeking information they may not know until they have got it how relevant it is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK ill explain more

 

Brian who books the holiday invites Steve and his son Richard on Holiday in school term time.

 

Steve was taken to court by the council for taking his son Richard out of school.

 

at the trial there was more dates then just the holiday being questioned and all but the holiday was due to sickness.

 

Steve stood up in court and then said my son was ill during the dates being questioned. no mention of holiday at all by anyone.

 

Steve was found not guilty of the offence.

 

Richard, Steves son goes to school and tells everyone about the holiday after the trial and this gets back to the council of which then contact the holiday company to which Brian was the head booker and paid for this holiday.

 

The council obtained the dates for which Richard and Steve went on Holiday.

 

Council then pass this info from the holiday company and then ask the Police to investigate a case of Perjury for which Steve is then called in under caution / interview to which he says no comment.

 

So what i am getting at, could the evidence obtained by the council be obtained illegally

Link to post
Share on other sites

You've confirmed my guess that this was about unauthorised absence from school.

It was then compounded by the parents (allegedly) having committed perjury when giving evidence in court.

 

 

So the Council sought information to help them discover whether there had been perjury and to aid a prosecution for perjury. Entirely legal.

 

 

If you are thinking that "Steve" might escape a perjury charge because the evidence was obtained illegally forget it.

That defence is going nowhere.

The evidence wasn't obtained illegally.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian's art.8 Convention Rights might have been violated by the L A in this case, however, if there is a suspicion that Steve's acquittal is tainted by fraud, then an investigation by the L A for the purpose of prevention of crime will be deemed valid.

 

It's a case of, what was Steve charged with, the allegations, and what response and evidence did Steve give in court against those allegations?

 

It may well be the case that Steve was not under a legal duty to disclose the holiday, and art.8 does apply to both him and his son's private life also!

 

Haunter

Link to post
Share on other sites

. Entirely legal. If you are thinking that "Steve" might escape a perjury charge because the evidence was obtained illegally forget it. That defence is going nowhere. The evidence wasn't obtained illegally.

 

Even if it was unlawfully obtained that breach isn't so great that a court would likely disallow it being introduced in evidence when it was a clear indication of perjury.

Unsurprisingly, the court's don't look favourably on perjury!

Link to post
Share on other sites

If charged, the CPS will have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Steve committed perjury, that he was under a legal duty to disclose the holiday in the criminal proceedings, and that his non-disclosure was material to the outcome of the trial.

 

Sounds like the L A are on your friend's back, have they brought any care proceedings in respect of his son?

 

Haunter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Er, no, Brian was obligated only to respond to the allegations made, his and his son's art.8 Convention Rights were fully engaged at the trial, same as all person's are.

 

If the L A did not challenge Brian on any particular matter, then he was not committing any wrong by not talking about his and his family's private life.

 

The CPS will need to show that Brian was under a legal duty to disclose the holiday, because the CPS will have to prove that there was an intention by Brian to interfere with the administration of justice by means of material non-disclosure on his (Brian's) part.

 

UK26, what, exactly, is happening on the L A's case against Steve right now please?

 

Haunter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Er, no, Brian was obligated only to respond to the allegations made, his and his son's art.8 Convention Rights were fully engaged at the trial, same as all person's are.

 

Er yes actually. "Steve" (not Brian) told the court (according to OP) that son was sick when he was actually on holiday. On the face of it that's perjury (but acknowledging we don't full details of what happened in the courtroom). All ECHR rights are "engaged" - they always are - but that doesn't mean they have any relevance to the particular case. Article 8 has no relevance to committing perjury in court.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Er, no, Brian was obligated only to respond to the allegations made, his and his son's art.8 Convention Rights were fully engaged at the trial, same as all person's are.

 

If the L A did not challenge Brian on any particular matter, then he was not committing any wrong by not talking about his and his family's private life.

 

The CPS will need to show that Brian was under a legal duty to disclose the holiday, because the CPS will have to prove that there was an intention by Brian to interfere with the administration of justice by means of material non-disclosure on his (Brian's) part.

 

Haunter

 

It is Steve facing the perjury allegation, not Brian, though?

 

Was Steve asked about all the dates?

Did he answer "Richard was ill" for all of them?

 

Non-disclosure would be being asked about the other dates, or not answering when asked about the holiday dates.

 

If Steve was asked in court about "all the dates", and said "ill" and deliberately didn't qualify his answer for the holiday dates, knowing Richard wasn't ill on those dates : that is perjury rather than non-disclosure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve ought to get himself professional representation through public funding.

 

It may be the case that the CPS consider there is insufficient evidence to secure a conviction on the charge of perjury.

 

We don't know what questions were put to Steve when he was under oath in the witness box, and we don't know what answers he gave orally in evidence in response to those questions, but as you can now see, there is no DPA breach by the L A.

 

A charge of perjury is a very serious offence and if convicted, Steve will face a prison sentence, so he had better get professional defence solicitor on board and start looking at what his defence is, if he has one.

 

Haunter

 

Yeah I know I got the name wrong, silly me, but a simple mistake and no harm done!

 

I'm not saying art.8 has any bearing on perjury, all Convention Rights are relevant in all cases, civil and criminal, it's the violation of these fundamental rights that must be necessary in accordance with the prescribed law is the point I am making.

 

Haunter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well all Convention Rights are entrenched in the ECHR, but the person is not entitled to hide behind them so as to escape the law for any wrong he may have done.

 

We don't have the details of the trial, and so it is extremely difficult, impossible, to give any advice to UK26 as to whether his friend Steve committed perjury or not, but I believe we have established for him that there is no DPA breach.

 

Haunter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Retitled and moved to general legal forum

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a ruling in the High Court last year where the court held that a father who took his daughter on holiday during term time had not broken any law, and the fine of £120 imposed upon him was overruled and quashed (originally the fine was £60).

 

In this appeal case before the High Court, the court said there was no evidence before it to prove that the child did not attend school regularly.

 

So, in the case of Steve here, it appears he did not break any law by taking his child on holiday during term time, therefore, during the trial the fact that he did take his child on holiday but not talk about it in the proceedings has absolutely no bearing on his acquittal, his child was off school sick on a number of occasions, this is perfectly legal, Steve took his child on holiday during term time, again, this is perfectly legal.

 

Even if the L A/CPS can prove that Steve lied and said “No, we didn’t go on holiday”, it will change nothing in respect of his acquittal, because the law is that the child must attend school regularly, and Steve and his family’s art.8 Convention Rights provide protection for their privacy, home life and correspondence, meaning that their holiday, term time or not, is private and of no business whatsoever of the L A.

 

No law has been broken here, a minor lie may have been told by Steve, but that lie, if it was a lie, is immaterial to the L A’s case at the trial.

 

s.1(6) of the Perjury Act 1911 provides:

“The question whether a statement on which perjury is assigned was material is a question of law to be determined by the court of trial”.

 

Any lie or false statement alleged must be proven to have been intended to interfere with the due administration of justice, taking his child on holiday and allegedly denying this under oath does not change the acquittal decision, it is immaterial to the decision of the court to acquit Steve, because taking his child on holiday during term time without the school’s consent is not illegal.

 

The gist of this case is that the L A accused Steve of keeping his child off school without valid reason, this was proven to be untrue at the trial and Steve was acquitted.

The L A are now saying, after discovering evidence after that trial, that Steve unlawfully took his child on holiday during term time and lied at the trial by saying his child was off sick for that particular 1 or 2 weeks, this has no bearing on the acquittal decision, because no doubt Steve must have produce medical evidence from the family GP confirming the ill health of his child being the reason why he was not at school.

 

Taking your child on holiday during term time is not illegal in the UK, regular attendance at school is the criteria of law that a parent must satisfy, so even if Steve did lie under oath and deny the holiday, it is a minor lie that has not interfered with the court’s decision to acquit him of any wrongdoing.

 

In this case here, if the CPS go ahead with a prosecution, then it will need to prove that Steve’s alleged lie caused the court to make a decision in his favour that it otherwise would not have done so if the alleged lie had not been said. That is what perjury is.

 

Again, without the full details/circumstances of the previous proceedings, and what the precise allegation is now made against Steve, it is quite difficult to say if he has a defence or not against the allegation/charge.

 

I do hope though that the above information will help Steve, but he should get himself professional representation as soon as possible from experienced criminal defence solicitors.

 

Haunter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...