Goodwill payment

[flyhawkeye]

Several months ago I applied for and received a refund for bank charges.

 

About a week later I received another letter from the bank stating "Although we dispute your claim for refund of charges we would like to offer you a goodwill payment. If you accept this you must understand your claim will be void."

 

So I took the payment.

 

Two days ago the bank called me and stated "We made a mistake in paying you twice, we accept it is our mistake and we would like our money back"

 

Am I legally bound to repay or can I say tough luck I've spent it?

[sequenci]

Two days ago the bank called me and stated "We made a mistake in paying you twice, we accept it is our mistake and we would like our money back"

 

Am I legally bound to repay or can I say tough luck I've spent it?

 

i'm sure they will be able to recover their money if they have made a mistake in paying it to you. I'm sure someone with a clearer understanding in this area will be along soon.

[mcjohnson]

It would actually be illegal for you to keep the money, as you have knowlingly acquired funds that you knew that you were not entitled to... If you kept the money the bank could actually have you charged with theft, so I would recommend that you repatriate the funds with their rightful owner!

 

Sorry the news wasn't more positive.

[buzby]

You could easily argue the second payment was part of their settlement with you and you could not have easily foreseen that the payment to you was anything other than a goodwill gesture. As such, should they now wish to claw back their 'goodwill' gesture, you similarly will not feel obliged to agree that you cannot pursue them for the unfair charges - therefore, they can either let you keep it (and not have a formal court claim) or they insist on the return, and you reserve the right to chase them as before.

[flyhawkeye]

It would actually be illegal for you to keep the money, as you have knowlingly acquired funds that you knew that you were not entitled to... If you kept the money the bank could actually have you charged with theft, so I would recommend that you repatriate the funds with their rightful owner!

 

Sorry the news wasn't more positive.

 

No, you are under the asumption that I knew what i was doing was wrong. This is not so and therefore I cannot be found guilty of theft.

[mcjohnson]

You knew the money wasn't due to you, and the bank have advised you that they have credited to you in error. If you keep the money, you are therefore knowingly doing so and thus, committing theft.

 

There are a few other, older threads on this within this site, and the compactlaw website, but they all indicate that if you fail to repay the money you could be charged with theft.

[flyhawkeye]

You knew the money wasn't due to you, and the bank have advised you that they have credited to you in error. If you keep the money, you are therefore knowingly doing so and thus, committing theft.

 

There are a few other, older threads on this within this site, and the compactlaw website, but they all indicate that if you fail to repay the money you could be charged with theft.

 

I may be charged with theft, but I won't be found guilty because I didn't know I wasn't allowed the payment as it was a goodwill payment. To be found guilty of theft you have to admit that you knew what you were doing was illegal

[noomill060]

The money was paid as a goodwill gesture, the bank stated that it wasnt in settlement of any unlawful charges.

[flyhawkeye]

The money was paid as a goodwill gesture, the bank stated that it wasnt in settlement of any unlawful charges.

 

Yes

[noomill060]

One could say that the bank gave you two amounts of goodwill.

 

Since when was goodwill quantifiable.

 

And in any case, a goodwill payment by the bank can be accepted as part payment of your claim without making your claim "void".

 

If they have taken money from you unlawfully you have the right to claim it back.

[TheAnalyst]

Is it fair to say you no longer have the money?

[noomill060]

So they are saying they really only intended to express half the goodwill that they actually did.

 

Goodwill is goodwill. How can you have half of goodwill?

 

Doesnt make sense. Carry on with your claim, accept what you have recieved as part payment, deduct this amount from what you believe they owe and and carry on with your claim.

[flyhawkeye]

Is it fair to say you no longer have the money?

Yes

[barracad]

This is different to where a bank has accidentally deposited money into your account which belonged to somebody else - for example an input error meaning somebody elses deposit was credited to your account. In that example, the bank could quite rightly take back the money.

 

I think what has happened in your case is completely different and goes far beyond putting the money into your account "by mistake" - they have specifically offered you a goodwill gesture, which you have accepted. As far as I am concerned, it is a goodwill gesture, in the interest of customer relations, which they have no right to reclaim.

 

My own personal view, and this is really just me thinking out loud here is that the goodwill gesture they have given you is no different from if the bank manager had given you a bottle of scotch at Christmas - it is yours to do with as you please.

[noomill060]

Absolutely.

 

The bank credited this person with money as a goodwill gesture. Whether the money was credited in one or two or twenty seven instalments is neither here nor there.

 

It was as a goodwill gesture-the bank didnt recognise the claim and went out its way to make it clear that the payment was not in settlement of anything.

 

It was paid as a goodwill gesture.

[flyhawkeye]

Thanx for all your views.

 

I think I will keep the payment and maybe even have my day in court.

 

Even if I lose they can't take what I don't have

[Rayne]

The other point of view is that ignorance of the law is not a defence

[poppynurse]

If the bank made the gesture out of goodwill I can't see how they can ask for it back....sounds like a gift to me

[flyhawkeye]

The other point of view is that ignorance of the law is not a defence

 

As I said earlier If you didn't think you were doing wrong you cannot be found guilty.

 

So in this case it is

[dw190]

The OP is entitled to belive the Goodwill payment is for inconvenience caused by their unlawful charges.

 

It would be interesting to know what the refunded charges were and the amount of the Goodwill payment.

 

They certainly dont like the boot being on the other foot.

[noomill060]

Absolutely- they dont like it up 'em, Captain Mainwaring!

[Aequitas]

What did the bank say when they made the first payment? If they said, "Although we dispute your claim for refund of charges we would like to offer you a goodwill payment. If you accept this you must understand your claim will be void" or words to that effect, then it is patently obvious they made a mistake when they made the second payment. But I am not sure that it necessarily needs to be obvious that a mistake was made, which let's face it is the case. If a payment was made under a mistake it is recoverable - the law no longer distinguishes between mistakes of fact and mistakes of law and instead asks the question: has there been an unjust enrichment?

[mcjohnson]

1 - The account charges aren't unlawful, until they are proven to be in the test case. I get really frustrated by people that say this. I am on your side, guys, but you have to remain objective in your advice and information (until the test case is resolved).

 

2 - The bank contacted you within a reasonable period and acknowledged that they had made a mistake, and asked for their money back. If you think this is unreasonable, put the shoe on the other foot; if you had made a similar mistake to the bank, and cordially asked for your money back and the bank refused, you would probably be on here now starting a thread about how the bank stole your money...

[lolly371]

the way i see it, is, if you had a loan, or credit card, or something along those lines, and decided to make a lump sum payment to clear it, agreed the price with the bank for a full and final payment, made the payment and then accidentally made an additional payment, would the bank refund your mistake? i dont think so! they would take whatever money they could to cover the shortfall of said loan/credit card. this is the same thing, as far as i can see.

[flyhawkeye]

1 - The account charges aren't unlawful, until they are proven to be in the test case. I get really frustrated by people that say this. I am on your side, guys, but you have to remain objective in your advice and information (until the test case is resolved).

 

2 - The bank contacted you within a reasonable period and acknowledged that they had made a mistake, and asked for their money back. If you think this is unreasonable, put the shoe on the other foot; if you had made a similar mistake to the bank, and cordially asked for your money back and the bank refused, you would probably be on here now starting a thread about how the bank stole your money...

 

I don't regard 10 months as reasonable