Spiritgirl -v- Various DCAs

[spiritgirl59]

Morning friends

 

This is the letter I propose to send to Capital One - hopefully to shut them up once and for all - see what you think (and a big thanks to Rory for the tip about HM Treasury)

 

Dear Sirs

 

Your Ref:

 

Thank you for your letter dated XXXX 2007.

 

In that letter you have referred to several documents, none of which were enclosed. You have also made feeble excuses for your non-compliance with my original request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I am shocked by the sheer incompetence of your firm.

 

Following receipt of your letter to me dated XXXX 2007 stating that you required my signature before you were able to provide me with a copy of the credit agreement; I did indeed contact your customer services department. I spoke to a member of staff called XXXX on XXXX 2007 who advised me (and I quote) “we do not have agreements, we only have application forms”. Sure enough all I have received from you so far is a photocopy of an application form which has not been signed by your firm so it appears XXXX was indeed telling the truth.

 

I find it difficult to believe that you do not possess such an important document as the copy of the credit agreement.

 

It would appear that you have failed in your obligations to comply with the various anti money laundering regulations in not keeping such documents. This, as I’m sure you are aware, is a very serious offence.

 

I now require the balance of this account to be returned to zero.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 14 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following would apply:

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to the account.
  
• You may not pass the account to any third party.
  
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Please be aware, the CCA 1974 is very clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. As there is no agreement a default cannot be lawfully issued as no valid, regulated agreement has been breached.

 

I would ask that you review this account and respond favourably within 14 days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so will result in me reporting this matter to The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and any other authorities as I see fit.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

I now have a named person to contact who is supposedly handling this matter (!!), so if they ignore this one of mine then I am going for them big guns! I honestly believe they WILL ignore it because they are so dense - they probably will not even realise the poopy they are going to walk into if they do!

 

 

Will keep you all posted.

 

Spiritgirl

[gypsumsif]

very strong words there spirit . i always like this as a last paragraph (courtesy of tifo, i think)....

 

I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the FOS and my local MP.

[rory32]

Letter sounds familiar spiritgirl

 

gypsumsif, I like tifo's letter too but to be honest the OFT, etc are far less of a threat.

[deedee1310]

OMG Spiritgirl. You're battle sounds similar to Hopeful1 Help composing letter to solicitor, please?

 

I am susbcribing to your thread too, as I have commenced similar battles with various DCAs. I'm not quite as advanced as you as I am waiting for my various CCA requests to start defaulting from this coming week.

 

Well done to you. You are a truly magnificent adversay!

 

Lol! By the time you've finished with them, they will truly wish they had never taken you on to start with.

 

I will eagerly anticipate my email notifications for your thread (yes I am now a fully fledged CAG anarok)!

 

Look forward to this new week's installments.

 

deedee

[Jeff2000]

Morning friends

 

This is the letter I propose to send to Capital One - hopefully to shut them up once and for all - see what you think (and a big thanks to Rory for the tip about HM Treasury)

 

 

 

I now have a named person to contact who is supposedly handling this matter (!!), so if they ignore this one of mine then I am going for them big guns! I honestly believe they WILL ignore it because they are so dense - they probably will not even realise the poopy they are going to walk into if they do!

 

 

Will keep you all posted.

 

Spiritgirl

 

 

Hi Spiritgirl,

 

 

That letter may possibly be of some use to me.

 

You wouldn't mind too much, if I used some of it, should the occasion arise?

 

 

Jeff.

[ncf355]

McDonalds!

 

[rory32]

I would point out that you should only use a letter similar to spiritgirls when you are very sure that a copy of the agreement does not exist.

 

The offences that The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury would be investigating are very serious. As a result this sort of letter will trigger a search party checking every nook and cranny for a copy of the agreement.

[Jeff2000]

Hi rory,

 

 

Absolutely!

 

Just want something up my sleeve, in case the need arises!

 

One company has sent me 3 different copies of "application forms", which I can prove are only application forms.

 

This is simply because all 3 applications were declined!!!

 

The DCA that now own this "alleged" debt, have now defaulted and committed an offence after a CCA request.

 

They have been reported to TS, who I must say, have taken quite an interest in my case!

 

 

Cheers, Jeff.

[surprise]

My daughter is in a similar position, 3 application forms, the last one they have highlighted the box at the end and said this is your Credit Agreement. They should get my response tomorrow morning. Very similar to above and I asked them to send her a statement showing a nil balance.

[elizabeth1]

My daughter is in a similar position, 3 application forms, the last one they have highlighted the box at the end and said this is your Credit Agreement. They should get my response tomorrow morning. Very similar to above and I asked them to send her a statement showing a nil balance.

 

 

It's like they have gone completely mad in there and the higher up in the company we go the worse they are!!

 

No consciences whatsoever - they get worse by the day in there.

[spiritgirl59]

Jeff you are more than welcome to use the letter but as Rory says, please be sure there is a slim to nil possibility of them finding an agreement as the letter is strongly worded.

 

Gypsumif I too agree, Tito's letter is ace, I've used it before now, but I want to hit these morons a bit harder because they are seriously taking the u-n-wot out of me now.

 

As you know I was told by Capital One "we don't have agreements, we only have application forms" and I have the name of the member of staff who said it, the date etc., to drop on them.

 

Also true to form they have sent me nothing even resembling an agreement.

 

Surprise, like your daughter I have only had an application form with a message "this is your agreement" (and that had their signature missing!)

 

And they have tried to fob me off with endless copies of statements for some reason...all from 2005 (!) I can't understand the statements coming as I have not even S.A.R. 'd them we've not reached that stage due to no agreement....so I thought Capital One a great case for Rory's kick a**e letter

 

Elizabeth you are spot on mate; of all the creditors/DCAs I am dealing with, Capital One are by far the most dense of the lot. We are only talking a small debt here (under £1,000) so I am also hoping that when it sinks in that I do intend to set those authorities mentioned on them they will agree to write this off.

 

LOL deedee - hubby says he can see my confidence having soared since I found CAG and took control of the debt. It does feel so good not to be bullied and intimidated any longer, I've had years of being terrified of all these people before I knew my rights.

 

BTW everyone, if you can afford to, do please buy some CAG stickers - they don't half look good on the letter once you have typed it! I don't use mine on envelopes because the Creditors will simply chuck them, but I stick them on the letter itself everytime and you get the feel good factor from doing that as well! It makes every letter look even more official - brilliant!!

 

Yes I will be back with any more news folks. Have a good week!

Thanks for all your ongoing support guys, and I am so glad new members are being helped by this thread.

 

One other little thing, sometimes you may feel "is it worth it - shall I just make them an offer to get rid of them" when you are still being bombarded with crappy letters in response to yours, and they are still hassling you by phone. I've felt this way myself often - and I just wanted to say to you all IT IS WORTH IT because think what these morons are all getting away with all of the time, its time we took our stand against them.

 

If they can provide the proper information I will then S.A.R with a view to make offers to pay them, I have never disputed that, but if they cannot provide what they are supposed to do by law then they can tickle off!

 

I always think of the many many folks out there who do not know about CAG and who are being intimidated and bullied on a daily basis, and part of me is doing it for them too.

 

Love Spiritgirl x

[surprise]

If you are still being bombarded with calls, I did send the Harassment letter, I also reported them to OFCOM, as I was getting a lot of silent calls. According to OFCOM there should be a maximum of two silent calls followed by a live one. When I sent them the quote from OFCOM the calls stopped. The silent calls are due to their automated telephone system and there not always being an operator to answer them.

[elizabeth1]

Well - I got a letter this morning from Victoria Mitchell Chief Risk Officer at Cap1 - she thanks me for my emails to all the individuals I sent my correspondence to - contents have been noted.

 

Then she goes onto say that the matter is in the hands of the Cap1 Legal Dept - since it involves litigation and will be handled by that dept. I mustn't correspond with the Directors and CEO's anymore as it will simply be passed to the Legal Dept. (But it was cause the Legal Dept were not dealing with matters that I went to higher up!!)

 

Seems the higher up we go the less clue they have?

[Jeff2000]

Jeff you are more than welcome to use the letter but as Rory says, please be sure there is a slim to nil possibility of them finding an agreement as the letter is strongly worded.

 

 

 

Hi spiritgirl,

 

 

Many thanks. Yes I will certainly wait until I'm sure they do not have an agreement. I'm now waiting for a reply from the DCA that now own this alleged debt. If they send the same application forms as the original creditor, then I think that is all they have. Even better, they may attempt a cut & paste job if they realise that the application forms are useless!

 

In the mean time, let's see just exactly what they do send.

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

[Hopeful1]

Phew!! It has taken me 2 sittings to read this thread. I have read a fair amount before but needed to refresh.

 

Cor blimey you've done so well. You answered the "is it worth it?" question well. Once you are in debt, whatever you do leaves theses DCAs (and OCs in your case) thinking they can do what they like. At least with CAG we can stand up and say "actually, no you can't"

 

I've made lots of notes of where your letters are in the thread. As i posted on my thread, i've had it easy so far. However, i have started the ball rolling with MBNA for hubby, Moorcroft have recently taken over an account from another DCA (lack of CCA) and i also have a new found friend (not) in NCO. I do not think they will take kindly to disobedience, but that's what they'll get .

 

Will keep posting on here now.

 

Best wishes ;-)

[spiritgirl59]

Then she goes onto say that the matter is in the hands of the Cap1 Legal Dept - since it involves litigation and will be handled by that dept. I mustn't correspond with the Directors and CEO's anymore as it will simply be passed to the Legal Dept. (But it was cause the Legal Dept were not dealing with matters that I went to higher up!!)

 

Seems the higher up we go the less clue they have?

 

Elizabeth...I've not had any dealings with their "legal department" as yet, my mouth is watering at the prospect LOL - customer services is bad enough ! I wonder if their legal department know they don't "do" agreements only application forms :grin: :grin: :grin: keep us posted won't you!

 

Hopeful1 welcome - I've had dealings with Moorcroft a while ago before I found CAG. I offered them a pound a month and they sent the alleged debt back to the original creditor because they "weren't in the business of accepting merely £1" (their words). This was even before I knew I could CCA them, so I think a CCA to Moorcroft from your hubby should see them off as I am willing to bet they have no agreement since this alleged debt has been passed around already. I didn't hear anymore for over a year, and then the alleged debt reared its ugly head again with Link Financial, who have now defaulted on my CCA.

 

Good luck! I'll follow your thread.

 

My letter to Crapital One went off today recorded delivery, I'll post back when I hear something.

 

Surprise thanks for the tip about OFCOM however they have stopped phoning me - miracles never cease! This has been since I got a named person dealing with my alleged account. Creation Finance are the only ones still phoning, and just once a day but always at the same time would you believe, so I know its them LOL - I just let the answerphone kick in and they go away without leaving a message.

 

Jeff, good luck to you too!

 

Am off to bed now, its been a long day today spent trying to sort out various problems for my son...as if I don't have enough of my own

 

Spiritgirl x

[rory32]

Their legal dpartment doesn't no what day of the week it is spiritgirl. These after all are the same people who said they could sell a debt on and place a default on my file while the debt was in dispute.

[NitrousOxide]

Hi,

hope you didn't use your real signature? I can create digital ones if anyone wants them.

[steveh6883]

Hi Guys

 

I have been following this thread for some time now and am in the same position as most people.

 

Am currently dealing with about 6 DCAs, Moorcroft have just admitted they don't have a CCA and are 'closing and returning the account to creditor', but they're not getting off that lightly, am going after default removals & refund of payments. Any advice on the latter would be appreciated.

 

However, there has been one DCA that has really p****d me off by totally ignoring all regulations when account is 'in dispute', in fact the only wrongdoing they didn't do was phone harassment.

 

So, I have compiled a letter, cobbled together from others & added bits of my own. Think it just about covers everything, will paste it below, let me know what CAGers think, & feel free to use any / all bits as required.

 

""

FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS LETTER MAY RESULT IN YOUR ABILITY TO HOLD A CREDIT LICENCE BEING AFFECTED

Dear Sir / Madam

Re: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery on (DATE), with a confirmed receipt by Royal Mail on (DATE), asking for a copy of a relevant Credit Agreement and associated information under Sections 77 to 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing the statutory fee payable for such information of £1.00.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further calendar month, your company then commits a Criminal Offence. These time limits have now expired and I have still neither received a copy of the agreement as required by Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor any other information, nor any refund of the payment made.

As you will be aware, the recent payment of £1.00 was made to cover the administrative costs of providing a copy of the alleged Credit Agreement for this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

It would appear that you have waived this fee and ignored my statement of non-acknowledgement of this alleged debt by applying the £1.00 to the above account, as I have noted that in your letter dated (DATE), you have stated that the balance due was £XXX.XX, however in your letters sent after my Consumer Credit Agreement request, most recently dated (DATE) (sent by yourselves) and (DATE) (sent by your solicitors acting on your behalf) you state a balance of £XXX.XX minus £1.

Please be aware that if you wish to waive the £1.00 fee, then you must return it, and it MUST NOT be applied as any payment to this account, in order to force any acceptance of alleged debt.

As you will be aware, this action may be construed by the appropriate authorities as a MISAPPROPRIATION OF FUNDS, and may be regarded as THEFT.

As you are also no doubt aware, that if the creditor under an agreement, or persons or agencies acting on their behalf, fails to comply with the above request for a copy of a relevant Consumer Credit Agreement, then;

1) They are not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce that agreement; and

2) If the default continues for one further calendar month, then the creditor, or persons or agencies acting on their behalf commits a CRIMINAL OFFENCE.

Therefore, you have also committed THREE further OFFENCES, as you have, either yourselves, or by instructing your solicitors (XXXXX & Co.), demanded payments or threatened legal action.

As such, this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequently, I do not acknowledge any debt to your company, and no payments will be made in respect for the above named alleged debt.

The various offences you have committed, which have been listed above, may have an impact on your ability to hold a Credit Licence, it is important that you give this letter your immediate and prompt attention.

What I Require:

 

• A FULL REFUND of all payments made to date, including interest at the statutory rate of 8% per annum
  
• A FULL STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT, including any and all charges and interest applied
  
• Pursuant to the Data Protection Act 1998, I require you with immediate effect to ensure that all data held by you or your client regarding the alleged agreement or any reference to it, is removed from any and all Credit Reference Agency databases.

· Ensure that all data held by you or your client regarding me is destroyed.

· Ensure that all communication is made in writing.

 

Failure to comply:

 

• Failure to comply with my request under the Data Protection Act 1998 may result in the matter being referred to;
  ~ The Information Commissioner.
   
  
  
• Failure to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act may cause me to refer the matter to, but not limited to, the following agencies;
  ~ Office of Fair Trading
  ~ Trading Standards
  ~ Financial Services Authority
  ~ Financial Section of HM Treasury
   
  
  
• Any telephone contact may generate a complaint of harassment to;
  ~ the Police
  ~ OFCOM.

In any case, I await your prompt response within 12 days of receipt of this letter.

Yours sincerely

""

[dom2]

Hi Steve,

You're a nightbird! Spiritgirl, sorry if I hijack.

I like your letter but if I may suggest a few things based on my personal experience? I'm sorry if I'm preaching to the choir .....

1. Imagine you're a Solicitor ... state the facts, such as "you have not fulfilled your obligations under the CCA 1974 Act." rather than listing them all. Why tell them what you need .. let them work it out, if they can!

2. Don't use inflammatory tone however tempted you are. I like to write a letter first for me (swear words, threats 'n' all) and then write the proper one.

3. Less waffle. You've repeated yourself a few times. I find numbering or bullets useful.

4. Why sink to their level? "You may be liable to .... may affect your credit licence" etc. These guys invented the bull**** letter. You can do better than that.

5. Think about what you want. Don't threaten further action unless you really will do it. Many people threaten (like the DCAs) and then don't follow through; it simply reduces your credibility. Make sure you are prepared to follow through. For example if you get your money back are you really prepared to hold out for 8% interest? Maybe you are.

6. You could complain to the FOS and should! but the criminal offence can only be chased by them, not you. You may not get the satisfaction you want. In other words be prepared for disappointment.

7. After the account is returned to the OC, your target should be them. Be proactive. List (without comments) what actions of theirs have been against guidelines. Remember your own timelimits eg. you can only complain of a criminal offence if you report to FOS within 6 months.

 

I really believe that a letter drafted this way is more likely to be taken seriously. It looks very much as if you've taken legal advice from a Solicitor. Now that's a subliminal message that is worth getting across:)

[bigandyuk1]

Good advice dom2, however we are assuming that whoever at the DCA opens this letter:

 

1. Actually can read.

2. Actually gives a damn.

3. Doesn't just file in the bin.

 

Kind Regards

BigAndy

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya Steve & Dom

 

Great letter Steve - best to start your own thread though so that your own stuff doesn't get lost in here

 

Yes Dom I totally agree with you - its best to carry out any threats made to DCAs. I shall certainly be carrying out all mine if I get the same irrelevant letters from them as I have been getting

 

All quiet here right now but the mail hasn't arrived yet LOL !

 

Best wishes

Spiritgirl x

[dom2]

It's nice to look forward to the mail isn't it?

Wasn't like that before I found this site. Nothing in the post for me today:(

[spiritgirl59]

Non response to S.A.R. and continuous harrassment by phone

 

I am getting naffed off with one Creditor and their phone calls. They have not responded to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and should not keep phoning even though I am ignoring the calls and letting the answerphone kick in - here is a letter which I am sending to them - hope it helps others in the same boat :-

 

F.A.O. XXXX XXXX – Legal Department

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

This Account is Now In Dispute

 

Your Ref:

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

You should note that I am still awaiting a response to my Subject Access Request to you dated XXXX June 2007.

 

 

 

You have 40 days in which to respond to this request therefore at XXXX July 2007 you will be in breach of my lawful request.

 

On XXXX June 2007 I spoke to a member of staff called XXXX and explained to her that I am still awaiting a response to my Subject Access Request.

 

As a member of the Legal Department of your firm, I trust you are only too well aware that I am within my rights to request this information and you have a duty to respond to my request.

 

Please refrain from contacting me again in writing or by telephone unless it is in answer to my Subject Access Request.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Guys, if they don't respond to my SAR by the date they should, what is the next course of action? None response to an SAR is a new one on me!

 

I'm not disputing I owe this particular debt and they did respond to my CCA properly, but I aint paying them all their charges which have been added on.

 

Would you make them a ridiculous offer or stick out for a response to the SAR ? I just want rid to be honest, they are a pain in the rear

 

Spiritgirl x

[kennyparkroad]

i would wait for the SAR to be honest with you, send that letter to:

 

The Accounts Manager

Complaints Officer

 

 

thats what i do with ALL my letters, it worked great and as fast as hell with EOS Solutions.