Spiritgirl -v- Various DCAs

[rory32]

If they don't comply with your SAR request you can report them to the ICO and also file an N1 to gain a court order forcing compliance http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6971-data-protection-act-non.html

[elizabeth1]

Spiritgirl,

As Rory says if they don't comply with the SAR do the N1 court claim against them. ASK FOR DAMAGES AT DESCRETION OF COURT - this way it allows Judge to make that decision.

I read last night that some claims are being heard at Chancery Division of court (Debt Mountain's in Cabot forums) so looks like these judges are seriously looking at these companies now and the DCA's etc.. so we may have a few nice surprises ahead of us involving these companies?

 

Looks like their days of doing as they please are coming to an end?

[spiritgirl59]

Update on Alliance & Leicester :-

 

Hi guys

 

You may recall from previous posts that A&L complied with my CCA request and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on behalf of hubby. Then they said they were sending the account to an outside agency before hubby had time to make them offers of repayment after receiving the SAR results.

 

Got a letter today from their Complaints Department apologising for the "tone" of their previous letter but saying that "due to the balance and amount of arrears we have now sent this to our legal department".

 

Hubby phoned Complaints but the woman dealing with this was (conveniently?) away until next week. Spoke to her assistant who advised him to phone their in house legal department. Did this and spoke to a real snotty bovine who told him that they are "going for a charging order" and there is nothing he can do about it, it's too late now She then said the debt has been referred to their Solicitors so he had best take it up with them. She gave him the phone number of an outside firm of Solicitors.

 

Phoned them and got a very helpful guy who said they didn't even have the debt there yet after he checked his system, and even if they did, a charging order would be the last thing they would attempt, they would first of all try to come to some arrangement. Said the bovine in their in house legal department was talking nonsense (no surprise there then!).

 

Phoned back to Customer Services at A&L and related this sorry saga to another member of staff who asked hubby what he expected her to do about it (charming!) He asked her to send him a standing order form so he could begin making payments which is what he had intended to do in the first place, and that there had been no need whatsoever for them to send the debt to their in house OR outside Solicitors Explained that he had been waiting for a response from their Complaints Department before he began to offer repayments.

 

She said that if he DID start to make payments then it would look favourable to the Judge when it reaches Court. Hubby then gave me permission to speak to her as he was getting in a state after hearing this, and I told her that IF they begin proceedings I will report them to as many authorities as possible and that no Judge in the land would appreciate them wasting Court time when hubby is and has been prepared to make repayments, and was simply waiting the SAR and the response from their Complaints Department.

 

Came off the phone bloomin' fuming about it - and so a further letter of complaint is going to the woman dealing with this matter at A&L about today's events. How DARE they get my husband so upset about all this? There is absolutely NO NEED for their behaviour. All this because we had the audacity to request a CCA and SAR!

 

Let them dare start legal action when hubby intends to make repayments!!!

 

Oh and the other thing they said was that they will want all the arrears paid off in one go, which we can't afford to do. Hubby can afford monthly repayments but not a lump sum.

 

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this next? We've been told to wait for correspondence from the outside Solicitors who will provide us with options as to what they are prepared to accept (kind of them eh?) There were no punitive charges on the SAR (they had strangely been removed) so we do agree the debt owing but we cannot pay off over £2000 in arrears in one go the cheeky bar stewards!!

 

As you can tell I am not a happy bunny tonight ! I can't believe their attitude!

 

Spiritgirl

[spiritgirl59]

Good morning friends

 

Kenny, Rory and Elizabeth thanks so much for your advice re the non-response to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) from one Creditor. I have taken that on board and am going to hold off with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) reminder - let them default then do what you suggested Rory.

 

Sorry I didn't thank you all yesterday but I was preoccupied by the behaviour of A&L as you will see from my previous post

 

I've prepared the following letter on behalf of my husband - see what you think - maybe its not harsh enough - maybe I am being too polite - maybe we should just go ahead and report them??

 

To be honest I am dumbstruck by their attitude and how they upset us both, I feel a bit low today and can't seem to think straight...not like me guys cos I have been feeling so much stronger.

 

Please can you advise whats best to do? How would you deal with them? Thanks

Spiritgirl x

 

 

 

 

 

Alliance & Leicester plc

 

Dear Sirs

 

Your Ref:

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX June 2007.

 

I do not consider this matter has been resolved in any way whatsoever, would certainly ask you to keep my file open, and should like to bring you up to speed with developments.

 

On receipt of your letter yesterday I phoned your office to speak with you, I was told you are away on leave until Monday next. I then telephoned your in house legal department and spoke to a person called XXXX who was extremely rude and offhand. When I attempted to discuss the account the she simply said “we are going for a Charging Order, its with our Solicitors, you are too late”. She suggested I contacted Shoesmiths and gave me their telephone number.

 

I contacted Shoesmiths who advised me they do not possess any details regarding my account. The gentleman I spoke to (who was extremely helpful and polite, unlike your staff) said that XXXX was talking nonsense as a Charging Order is a final resort and before that attempts would be made to come to an agreement about repayments (which ironically is what I am attempting to do with your firm).

 

I then telephoned back to Customer Services and spoke to a Miss XXXX. She too was offhand. I explained the situation and said that I wished to commence repayments to your firm.

 

She said that she would send me a Standing Order form so that repayments could commence but that I would be expected to pay off the arrears in one go. She also said that a Judge would look favourably on me making repayments now when this matter reaches Court.

 

Do you honestly think a Judge will look “favourably” on anything in connection with this sorry saga?

 

Following an improvement in my financial situation, I have been trying to get my finances back in order and have sent CCA requests to all my Creditors, yourselves included. You have supplied me with a copy of a properly executed agreement which is your duty under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As a result I sent you a Subject Access Request letter in order to find out whether you have added any punitive charges to my account. I have received this information from you now and see you have not. I made a complaint regarding the tone of your letter dated XXXX May wherein you were threatening legal action. All of the above I am perfectly within my rights to do.

 

For the past two years I have been paying you a token amount of £1 against this account. My circumstances have now changed and I wish to bring my repayments up to date, hence my queries under the Consumer Credit Act to all my Creditors. I cannot believe that your company has taken the attitude it has simply because I queried the situation of this account under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I trust that Miss XXXX will keep to her word and send me a Standing Order form so that repayments may commence. Perhaps you could kindly confirm that you are prepared to agree repayments at £X per month which consists of normal monthly repayments of £X plus £X towards the accumulated arrears.

 

I am not in a position to pay off the arrears in one lump sum, however I consider my above offer to be fair and reasonable, and should you still proceed with legal proceedings against me I will show the Court by all correspondence in my possession that it is your firm who have acted prematurely by instigating legal proceedings against me.

 

Please would you respond to this letter. As you state in the final paragraph of your letter dated XXXX June “If we are unable to agree a way forward you may be able to ask the Financial Ombudsman to review your complaint”.

 

I sincerely hope that we can agree a way forward and await your response.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

[kennyparkroad]

very calm letter.

 

lets see what happens with it now.

[dencha]

Hi Spiritgirl

 

If you are on Internet banking and you know the sort code and account number you wish to pay into you can set up the standing order yourself through your own account. Maybe this is a way round this situation. It appears they do not want you to pay.

 

If you are Internet banking you only really need a form for Direct Debit and even some of these you can now be set up over the web.

 

dencha

[spiritgirl59]

Kenny & Dencha

 

Thanks so much for getting back to me

 

Well well - guess what arrived in the mail this aft? A Standing Order form from them!!

 

Dencha yes we are on internet banking, thanks for the tip. I'll get my husband to set it up this way and I shall alter the letter to say he has done it and exactly when!

 

We'll see what happens then and I'll post when I hear anything else.

 

Spiritgirl x

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Spiritgirl Please note!!

 

Have they committed a criminal offence such as failing to comply with a CCA request within 42 days.

 

If so write to the local magistrates court. Supply them with the relevant CCA letters plus evidence of receipt & reference to the legislation asking that as the DCA have committed a criminal offence the court duly issue a summons for trial

 

It has already been done by another consumer for non-compliance & the court has issued a summons with a trial date

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Spiritgirl,

 

I have just read your thread, you are doing so well, I truely admire your fight and tenacity.

 

These companies tactics are despicable, and they will try to wear your down:cry: I just quote the OFT debt collection guidence to them. They breach it every time:-o .

 

I am in a very similiar situation myself, but one company has taken me to court on a application form, they think they are so clever, and the customer does'nt know, but now we do know so much more:D

 

I have defended this, so hopefully it will be struck out. Its just a waiting game now, which at times can make you a bit wobbly, but after reading your thread, it makes me feel so much more positive.

 

You just keep the good fight going, never surrender, never give in:D

[ncf355]

Spiritgirl Please note!!

 

Have they committed a criminal offence such as failing to comply with a CCA request within 42 days.

 

If so write to the local magistrates court. Supply them with the relevant CCA letters plus evidence of receipt & reference to the legislation asking that as the DCA have committed a criminal offence the court duly issue a summons for trial

 

It has already been done by another consumer for non-compliance & the court has issued a summons with a trial date

 

This is amazing!

 

Do you have any links to the thread/story on this Pliny?

 

I can think of a few I want to go for like this!

 

I thought we didnt have any direct proof it was a criminal offence?

[spiritgirl59]

Hi guys

 

Pliny thank you for this - but as the others have said do we have any "proof" about the criminal offence? I know there has been a lot of discussion on this matter on different threads, and greatly differing opinions.

 

As for my own situation right now, there are several DCAs I could now take to court if this is the case (criminal offence) BUT I am wondering if the best course of action is to "suck it and see" and just wait - because if they write to me with any demands/threats of legal action now they don't have a leg to stand on because they have already defaulted/committed an offence and I will have great evidence for a defence if they tried to go down the court route; and if they don't contact me then I have lost nothing as I am not paying them a penny anyhow.

 

Creation Finance will at tomorrow be in breach of my S.A.R. I'm not paying them a penny and if they try to up the stakes by threatening legal action, then I can come back at them and drop them right in it with their own behaviour and non-compliance.

 

To be honest I don't see why I should waste time and money on issuing proceedings against all these morons while all is quiet. I intend to report CF to the Information Commissioners Office after tomorrow's deadline.

 

Please don't think I am being a wimp here - I just feel why should I put myself to extra work and having to pay out for court when they don't have a leg to stand on and I have all the evidence I need if and when they try to start the ball rolling - can you understand what I mean?

 

Hellhasnofury has commented that one DCA is trying to take him to court on an application form - well if any of them try that on me they will get what's coming to them (good luck HHNF let us know how you get on!)

 

Spiritgirl x

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

ncf I'm sorry because of confidentiality I cant give you any more details at this time but I can assure you I have seen the summons in question.

 

I can tell you the trial date is 27th July & it involves an ordinary consumer/debtor & a very well known national DCA

 

Not sure were you get the idea it's not a criminal offence to fail to comply with a CCA section 77-78 request. If they default for 42 days a criminal offence is commited

 

77 & 78 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed or rolling–sum credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

 

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

The only costs you risk are those of the defendant if you don't attend court otherwise it costs nothing but a stamp plus some time & trouble

Don't forget if it was succesful the OFT would have to consider whether or not the are fit to hold a licence.

Anyway if you have doubts wait until the current trial has been held before going ahead

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

spiritgirl

 

Just to be clear I'm referring to a CCA request & NOT a DPA SAR

[spiritgirl59]

Thanks Pliny

[stadium_arcadium]

 

To be honest I don't see why I should waste time and money on issuing proceedings against all these morons while all is quiet. I intend to report CF to the Information Commissioners Office after tomorrow's deadline.

 

Please don't think I am being a wimp here - I just feel why should I put myself to extra work and having to pay out for court when they don't have a leg to stand on and I have all the evidence I need if and when they try to start the ball rolling - can you understand what I mean?

 

Spiritgirl x

 

Hi SG, I understand exactly what you mean and am going through something similar myself. I have got two young kids who take up alot of my time (as kids do lol) and I feel extremely guilty that I'm writing letters/reading threads etc when I should be spending time with them. Lately I have spent less time on here because of this. I will carry on with my battles, but as and when I feel I need to. There's nothing wrong in that:)

Thanks for your support in my thread, it's much appreciated. I will keep up to date with yours and will carry on supporting those who I have already started helping and will continue to help where and as I can, time permitting.

SA. xx

[spiritgirl59]

Thanks S.A. x I've got a lot of family stuff going on here right now which I would rather not go into for personal reasons, but my head is in bits one way or another and I wish Pierce Brosnan would whisk me away to some desert island (oh to dream )

 

A brief update - Crapital One have now said they will send me all S.A.R. information free of charge, including a copy of my "executed agreement" as a "gesture of goodwill" as - to quote the guy who phoned this morning - "it has been a comedy of errors" caused by his firm!

 

Well he is dead right there.

 

I got his name and details and have to say he is the FIRST member of their staff I have spoken to who has any common sense whatsoever. He did agree with me that they are in the wrong not to have responded to me and he is going to attend to it personally. He is making a diary note - I have full details so I can chase him up if necessary (wonders never cease!)

 

I also advised him that I had made a complaint and he said he was aware of it as it is on the system! (blow me down with a feather...they have COLLATED some information at long last!!)

 

I wouldn't mind friends but this is the smallest of all the alleged debts, just a few hundred quid, so by the time I have taken off their punitive charges there will be very little to repay.

 

We shall see now - if he doesn't respond personally then they too can go forth and multiply

 

I think I need a stiff gin!!...I am still reeling from shock at having, for the FIRST TIME EVER spoken to someone who is intelligent and has common sense at Crapital One! Wonder if they are improving their staff/customer relations after so many complaints guys??? LOL Elizabeth ...take note, I am talking about Crapital One!!! (better sit down before you faint my friend!)

 

Back soon

Love Spiritgirl x

[kennyparkroad]

still here watching hoping everything turns out right for u

[stadium_arcadium]

Thanks S.A. x I've got a lot of family stuff going on here right now which I would rather not go into for personal reasons, but my head is in bits one way or another and I wish Pierce Brosnan would whisk me away to some desert island (oh to dream )

 

A brief update - Crapital One have now said they will send me all S.A.R. information free of charge, including a copy of my "executed agreement" as a "gesture of goodwill" as - to quote the guy who phoned this morning - "it has been a comedy of errors" caused by his firm!

 

Well he is dead right there.

 

I got his name and details and have to say he is the FIRST member of their staff I have spoken to who has any common sense whatsoever. He did agree with me that they are in the wrong not to have responded to me and he is going to attend to it personally. He is making a diary note - I have full details so I can chase him up if necessary (wonders never cease!)

 

I also advised him that I had made a complaint and he said he was aware of it as it is on the system! (blow me down with a feather...they have COLLATED some information at long last!!)

 

I wouldn't mind friends but this is the smallest of all the alleged debts, just a few hundred quid, so by the time I have taken off their punitive charges there will be very little to repay.

 

We shall see now - if he doesn't respond personally then they too can go forth and multiply

 

I think I need a stiff gin!!...I am still reeling from shock at having, for the FIRST TIME EVER spoken to someone who is intelligent and has common sense at Crapital One! Wonder if they are improving their staff/customer relations after so many complaints guys??? LOL Elizabeth ...take note, I am talking about Crapital One!!! (better sit down before you faint my friend!)

 

Back soon

Love Spiritgirl x

Well wonders will never cease!! Def a reason to celebrate LOL, glad the ball is rolling for you at last!

 

I have a dream similar to yours, except I'm on the desert island with Ben Browder hehe;)

 

Keep smiling XX

[jo1lygrngiant]

Ben who?? lol..

 

anyhow, keep going sg, your getting there my friend

[surprise]

Only trouble is Capital One don't hold any agreements only application forms, be interesting to see what sort of copy you get, if one at all. I had to force their hands before they sent my application form.

[joesoap]

Only trouble is Capital One don't hold any agreements only application forms, be interesting to see what sort of copy you get, if one at all. I had to force their hands before they sent my application form.

 

And what was the outcome?

[surprise]

My daughter had 3 application forms so I'm going for a write off with her. I received one application form which because they owe me more money than I owe them I am going through the FOS. If that isn't successful then Court. Thought I would put them to as much trouble as possible and as much expense.

[ncf355]

Cheers Pliny

 

I get you Spirit, no matter how much you know you are in the right it can be extremely stressful!

[Hopeful1]

Hi Spiritgirl

 

Thank you for the helpful info you've posted on my thread.

 

You're doing a fab job so keep on going. It is important to pick your battles. Balancing a family, work and debt is hard work I don't think i'll know what to do with all the head space when i finally get to the end of all this!

 

Look after yourself. Best wishes

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again guys

 

grrr it WAS too good to be true re Crapital One !!

 

Have received from them an application form which they are insisting is a credit agreement. I've had a look around the site and found the EXACT same one on Kenny's thread :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/71457-capital-one-my-mum.html?highlight=Capital+One

 

Kenny I hope you don't mind me linking back to this but I don't have a scanner and this shows everyone what my so called "agreement" from them consists of as well.

 

Not only that but they have sent me two letters, one a copy of a letter they have written to the Citizens Advice Bureau telling them that I have defaulted on my token repayments which the CAB helped me to set up 2 years ago and to get me to start making them again ...and one to say they are now considering further action against me (issue default notice in 28 days,pass account to DCA/take legal proceedings) because they have not heard from the CAB or me!! The CAB have also written to me asking if I need any assistance to offer to recommence my repayments !!

 

I really do despair of all this.

 

I still want to fight, but I'm at a loss now as to what to do.

 

I know you went to a Solicitor Kenny, but I can't afford to do that. Please guys, what kind of letter can I write back to these morons now?

 

This was the last letter I sent to them. You will see I clearly stated that they are not lawfully allowed to take further action and yet they are now threatening to do it. As you will see I even threatened them with the Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and they are STILL going their own sweet way. Has anyone done a letter to HM Treasury so far????

 

Please guys, any advice you can give me would be so much appreciated.

Love Spiritgirl x

 

Your Ref:

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX June 2007.

 

In that letter you have referred to several documents, none of which were enclosed. You have also made feeble excuses for your non-compliance with my original request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I am shocked by the sheer incompetence of your firm.

 

Following receipt of your letter to me dated XX April 2007 stating that you required my signature before you were able to provide me with a copy of the credit agreement; I did indeed contact your customer services department. I spoke to a member of staff called XX on XX April 2007 who advised me (and I quote) “we do not have agreements, we only have application forms”. Sure enough all I have received from you so far is a photocopy of an application form which has not been signed by your firm so it appears XX was indeed telling the truth.

 

I find it difficult to believe that you do not possess such an important document as the copy of the credit agreement.

 

It would appear that you have failed in your obligations to comply with the various anti money laundering regulations in not keeping such documents. This, as I’m sure you are aware, is a very serious offence.

 

I now require the balance of this account to be returned to zero.

 

 

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 14 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following would apply:

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to the account.
  
• You may not pass the account to any third party.
  
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Please be aware, the CCA 1974 is very clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. As there is no agreement a default cannot be lawfully issued as no valid, regulated agreement has been breached.

 

I would ask that you review this account and respond favourably within 14 days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so will result in me reporting this matter to The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and any other authorities as I see fit.

 

Yours faithfully