Parking Eye ANPR PCN Claimform - Barnet hospital EN5 3DJ

[ajjm]

Hi,

I am writing with a request for urgent help.

My partner received a private parking ticket for overstaying his time in a hospital carpark when his elderly mother attended A&E.

He was not able to get to the car park to increase the time.

He did not respond to the initial letters as per the usual guidance.

Unfortunately, he did not see the Letter Before County Claim (dated 19/9/23) as he has a busy job and was on holiday for a period during this time.

He just received a county court claim dated 30/10/23.

I am not sure what the options are now.

I can post further details later/tomorrow but wanted to post this as soon as I could.

Many thanks

[Nicky Boy]

Hi ajjm,

Could you please fill in this sticky...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/#comment-4735332

I'm sure dx will be along with AOS instructions soon...

[Nicky Boy]

Also this one when you can...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/#comment-4684358

 

[ajjm]

Thanks so much. First link completed below

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business Centre Northampton N1 

Name of the Claimant :   Parking Eye Ltd        

Claimants Solicitors: Jayne Leonard (Legal Representative)

Date of issue – 30 Oct 2023

Date for AOS - 17 Nov 2023

Date to submit Defence - 1 Dec 2023

What is the claim for – 

1. Claim for monies outstanding from the Defendant in relation to a Parking Charge (Ref xxxxx) issued on xxxx.

2. The signage clearly displayed throughout Barnet Hospital (Patient & Visitors A), Wellhouse Lane, Barnett [sic], Hertfordshire, EN5 3DJ states that this is private land, managed by Parking Eye Ltd, and that it is subject to terms and conditions, including the payment of parking tariffs, by which those who park agree to be bound (the contract).

3. Parking Eye's ANPR system captured vehicle XXXXXXX entering and leaving the site on DATE, and parking without a valid paid parking ticket.

4. Pursuant to Sch 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, notice has been given to the registered keeper, making them liable for the Parking Charge payable upon breach.

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed £120

court fees £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount £205

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform?  LBC dated 19/9/23 - not sure date received as only found it with other unopened mail after receiving court claim, therefore did not reply

2023-11-03 16-41.pdf

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the claimform information. I've added to your thread title with the address.

Could you also let us have the information from the other sticky that NB posted please?

HB

[ajjm]

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

Please answer the following questions.

1 Date of the infringement 26/7/2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Keeper received initial parking charge notice dated 1/8/23, a reminder dated 10/8/23 and another letter dated 4/9/23. None of these are headed Notice to Keeper. See all 3 attached redacted letters.

3 Date received 4/9/23 (as above not headed NTK)

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Yes if the last letter is actually an NTK

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes but the picture of the depart time does not clearly show the number plate, although it is enlarged as showing below the photo

6 Have you appealed? No

Have you had a response? n/a

7 Who is the parking company? Parking Eye Ltd

8. Where exactly Barnet Hospital Patient and Visitors A, Hertfordshire

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA (BPA)

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here LBC - attached in next post as couldn't fit both attachments

 

 

 

Barnet parking initial letters.pdf

Letter before CC claim

LBC.pdf

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

[dx100uk]

how come you ignored the letter of claim?

its not as if you haven't dealt with speculative invoices before?

its only because you ignored everything you now have this court claim

dx

[ajjm]

Thank you.
 

Re post #7 - a question: my partner has a govt gateway login for tax. Can this be used or does he need a new one for this?

re post 8 He didn’t ignore it but the LBC letter wasn’t opened, in error. It was in a pile of other post  and wasn’t noticed.   I searched through the post when he received the court claim

 

[dx100uk]

 he ignored the letter of claim , same result by not opening it!

if he already has a gov't gateway login and its in THE SAME EXACT NAME as that on the claimform, then yes.

dx

[lookinforinfo]

The PCN does not comply with PoFA. They did not ask that the keeper paid the charge Schedule 4 S9 [2][e]

Also there is no mention of the parking period which is a must. All they give is the arrival and  departure times which are not the same thing. 

So the keeper cannot be pursued for the amount allegedly outstanding. Only the driver is now liable and as anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is allowed to drive that car and that could be anyone out of thousands of drivers. And the Courts do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person.

[ajjm]

Thank you so much.

I am having computer problems but should be able to follow all the advice above with the MCOL when this is resolved tomorrow.

Two further questions

- none of the letters are headed notice to keeper and both the reminder letter are dated more then 14 days after the ‘offence’. Is this another example of lack of compliance or have I misunderstood something here? Does the NTK no longer have to headed this as previously it did?

I agree with post 10 that not opening the letter is the same as ignoring it but was trying to explain how that came about - it was a terrible error on his part.

Thanks

[FTMDave]

The original letter was entitled Parking Charge Notice and arrived within the 14 days, so I think PE have covered themselves (apart from the points LFI has underlined).

Please "report back" once you have done AOS and CPR, as PE are the one parking company which are currently changing the way they operate and we have to prepare the defence to counter that.  They used to just sue for the £100 + costs but are now making up £20 Unicorn Food Tax and £50 legal representative's costs despite not having a legal representative.  They also go to great pains to attack our defence so it may need to be tweaked.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

1 hour ago, FTMDave said:

and £50 legal representative's costs despite not having a legal representative

Just to clarify the legal fee on the claim form is a fee for the issuance of the claim which is standard in all types of claims and not connected the legal representation, that is extra should the claim move to a hearing.

[ajjm]

I have run in to a problem with the government gateway as the account list my partner's business address (which he no longer uses) rather than his home address which is on the claim form. I have sent a message on government gateway requesting how to do this. Once I get a reply I will be able to complete the AOS

[ajjm]

One other thing from post #11 the PCN and PCN reminders do say "time in car park" 1 hour 46 mins - does that not count as stating a parking period or does that have to be in the NTK?

The CPR letter is prepared & ready to go when the AOS is sorted. I think we may need to get a new GG account for the MCOL if we can't get an answer from the MCOL helpline

Do you think we have a reasonable chance of defending this given the failure to respond to the LBA?

[Nicky Boy]

1 hour ago, ajjm said:

One other thing from post #11 the PCN and PCN reminders do say "time in car park" 1 hour 46 mins - does that not count as stating a parking period or does that have to be in the NTK?

The parking period is from the time when you leave the car parked until the time  you drive the car away.

That is NOT the times you drive past their stupid cameras.

The CPR letter is prepared & ready to go when the AOS is sorted. I think we may need to get a new GG account for the MCOL if we can't get an answer from the MCOL helpline

Sounds like a plan!

Do you think we have a reasonable chance of defending this given the failure to respond to the LBA?

CAG have an 85% success rate helping victims defend themselves, IF, IF, IF, it ever gets to court.

(And it STILL might not).

Not responding to LBA has absolutely no bearing on anything...

The only thing we would have suggested at that stage would be to send an insulting, snotty letter to convince them that, yes you are there and they won't get an easy back door CCJ and that you'll be real trouble in court.

Take a little wander through some threads in our "success" sub forum and educate yourself...

It'll probably give you a few pointers on how to go forward with this.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347084-ppc-successes-no-questions-please/page/16/#comment-5231630

 

[ajjm]

Update:

AOS now done online. There may be a slight issue receiving correspondence as, although I was assured by the 'helpl'ine that the address the court will use will be the one they sent the original claim to,  the acknowledgement of the AOS has the old business address on as the correspondence address. I tried to get hold of the court on the phone without success. Am also trying to get the address updated via email but none of the people involved seem to understand the issue or their own systems! We usually get correspondence from that address forwarded anyway so hopefully should be ok

Have also now posted the CPR request first class and have proof of posting.

Thanks again all

[FTMDave]

On 07/11/2023 at 16:34, ajjm said:

Do you think we have a reasonable chance of defending this given the failure to respond to the LBA?

Not replying to the LBA is neither here nor there regarding the success, or not, of PE's claim.

PE have previous for having rubbish signage in hospital car parks in order to catch out motorists, so if the hospital is local it would be useful to go back and get photos of the signs, both close up and how they would appear to someone driving in.

Can you go into more detail about what happened?  For example how long he overstayed, why he was not able to get to the car park to increase the time, etc.  This might open useful avenues.  It may even be possible to get the hospital authorities involved.

On 07/11/2023 at 16:34, ajjm said:

One other thing from post #11 the PCN and PCN reminders do say "time in car park" 1 hour 46 mins - does that not count as stating a parking period or does that have to be in the NTK?

The time in the car park does not equal a parking period as it takes time to find a bay and park.  There are consideration and grace periods to consider.

Edited November 8, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo

[ajjm]

The hospital is not that close but we should be able to get some photos over the next couple of weeks. I will try to see if any of the issues below are addressed on the signs.

The plot thickens as I have just checked the credit card statement which says £2.20 was paid on that date to paybyphone.

I have just checked the hospital website re parking charges and it says 0-1 hour is £2 and 1-3 hours is £3. I am a bit confused at the £2.20 but maybe they charge extra for using PaybyPhone?

The website also says they have changed the system to allow payment for extra time after the event. However, I don't know when this option became available - certainly the driver was not aware of this. Not sure if one is expected to check the website for this info but I suspect not. I will see if the signs mention it.

There was an expectation that the patient (86 year old) who had been in A&E for some time, was due to be discharged imminently after seeing a doctor. There were unexpected delays and the car park was some distance away from the A&E department. The driver did not want to return to the car and leave the patient alone and miss seeing the doctor. It was all very late at night - as can be seen from the PCN, departure from the carpark was 00:16. At this point the focus was on getting the patient home rather than thinking about the car park charges. The car park was very poorly lit.

I will post photos as soon as I am able to get them. 

Thanks

 

 

[FTMDave]

I asked you this as several hospitals have been fairly decent and intervened positively regarding parking tickets.

I have no idea if Barnet Hospital will do likewise but there is an e-mail address for their PALS here  https://www.royalfree.nhs.uk/contact-us/patient-advice-and-liaison-service-pals

It's well worth your partner contacting them, explaining what happened, and asking that they get the charge cancelled.  Explain he paid, that he couldn't abandon an 86-year-old vulnerable person, that there was no way to pay the extra quid, etc.

The CEO is Deborah Sanders but I can't find an e-mail address for her  https://www.royalfree.nhs.uk/about-us/our-hospital-leadership-teams

The problem is that, even if Barnet Hospital are decent, PE will say they "are unable" to cancel the charge as it's reached claim form stage, but in that case (a) you'd have evidence for the court that PE had been told to cancel and (b) they are likely to offer you a heavy discount (which you wouldn't be forced to accept, but the offer would be there).

A Cagger found that NHS guidance is that charges should be cancelled if medical care takes longer than expected - I'll see if I can find the thread.  But in any case, get a mail off to PALS tomorrow.

[ajjm]

Fab will do!

[FTMDave]

I've found the link and the paragraph to quote -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Trusts should consider installing ‘pay on exit’ or similar schemes so that drivers pay only for the time that they have used. Additional charges should only be imposed where reasonable [footnote 3] and should be waived when overstaying is beyond the driver’s control (such as when treatment takes longer than planned, or when staff are required to work beyond their scheduled shift).

 

[Nicky Boy]

Don't forget... DON'T name the driver!

You don't want the PPC getting that information in a roundabout fashion.

It may be an idea to post up your proposed email here for opinions...

[ajjm]

Thanks both.

I will send the email from my email address so the PE don't get one for my partner. We have different surnames so that should hopefully help with anonymity. Should I mention that it is at the court stage? If so I will explain that the LBA was overlooked

Dear PALS

I am writing because we have received a parking charge notice from Parking Eye. My partner's vulnerable, 86 year old mother was admitted to A&E on 25/7/23. As a busy medical professional himself, my partner only managed to get to A&E at 22:30 that night, with a plan to have a quick discussion about mother's care with one of the doctors, and take her home. Another family member had been with her until that time. My partner bought a parking ticket for one hour which was believed to be sufficient. Unfortunately, by the time my partner returned to the car, driven it from the parking bay which was some way away from the A&E exit, collected mother from A&E and helped her to the car, my partner didn't leave the carpark until 00:16. It was late, the car park was dark and my partner wanted to get mother home and settled, before driving home and getting up early for work. The parking situation didn't seem a priority at the time.

In these circumstances I am writing to request that you cancel the parking fine. The government guidance recommends a pay on exit scheme which would be much fairer for all concerned - see quote from the website below:

Trusts should consider installing ‘pay on exit’ or similar schemes so that drivers pay only for the time that they have used. Additional charges should only be imposed where reasonable [footnote 3] and should be waived when overstaying is beyond the driver’s control (such as when treatment takes longer than planned, or when staff are required to work beyond their scheduled shift).

I think you can agree that, given a ticket was purchased, there was no intention not to pay for the parking, despite the delay this caused in actually getting in to the hospital.

Many thanks for your assistance

Yours etc