Highview/DCB(L) ANPR PCN - Letter of Claim - Now Claimform - overstay - Riverside Retail Park in Norwich, Norfolk.

[anotheruser0000]

1 Date of the infringement 08/08/23

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 17/08/2023
 

3 Date received Unknown
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? Highview Parking

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Riverside Retail Park Norwich
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA

 

Hello,

I have received a PCN from Highview Parking who manage Riverside Retail Park in Norwich, Norfolk.

The free period is 2h30m and it is alleged the vehicle was onsite for 2h45m, therefore a claim is being made by Highview for a 15 minute overstay.

Please find attached correspondence received from the various entities involved. I have not appealed nor had any contact with any of the entities involved.

As this has escalated to a Letter of Claim dated 12 February 2024 I would be grateful for any advice given.

I think I've done this right please let me know if any other information is required.

 

Many Thanks,

 

au0000

 

Highview Parking PCN.pdf

[dx100uk]

well done 10/10 thank you.

time for a snotty letter to DCB(L)

dx

[Nicky Boy]

Hi 0000 and welcome to CAG.

If it is a letter of claim and not a claim form, (please upload) the next thing is a "snotty letter" from you.

Look around other threads for ideas of what to write.

Sorry crossposted with dx

[dx100uk]

last 2 pages of PDF PAPLOC

dx

 

[anotheruser0000]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies, I did initially upload the letters, please let me know if you are unable to see them and I will do it again and yes, it is a letter of claim, the last letter in the pdf.

 

hi, dx, last 2 pages of pdf, PAPLOC, not sure what that means, I am new and still reading up on stuff

[FTMDave]

Yes, you need to send Highveiw a snotty letter to show them you'd just be big trouble for them if they did do court.

Consideration & grace periods cover 15 minutes so you're in a good position.

It's always a good idea to write the to the organ grinder, lay it on thick about being a genuine customer, and demand they call off their dogs.  I've done a search for the retail park but I can't find a damn e-,mail address.

[anotheruser0000]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply, should I send the letter to Highview and a copy to DCBL or to Highview only?

Looking through some threads for an example letter, is there a template?

Will continue researching the forum to see what I can find but thank you everyone for your help so far.

au0000

Edit: OK, found a page on ericsbrother letters, thanks dx100uk on another post

[lookinforinfo]

As Dave has already said there are Consideration periods and Grace periods to be taken into account when private parking is involved.

Before looking at that the first thing is to check whether your PCN complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which regulates the private parking rogues.

They were very good at twice quoting from the Act but they missed Section 9[2][e]

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges;

They didn't do that so they have not complied with the Act which means they cannot pursue you as the keeper only as the driver which they said themselves when quoting Section 9 [2][f] .

In addition they are supposed to quote the period of parking but instead given the times of arrival and departure of your vegicle which is not the same thing.Obviously their times  include the driving times to the parking place plus later from the parking place to the exit. So removing those times from your 15 minute overtime and that doesn't include extra minutes when your car was held up by stopping for pedestrians or other cars passing in front of you as well as returning the shopping trolley and possibly  queueing to get out of the car park. And that doesn't include children and or disabled people causing greater differences betwen their times and the actual parking period which is what is specified in the Act. It is perfectly possible that as much as fifteen minutes longer  could be taken in a larger busy car park compared to their spurious ANPR times.

You may have noticed sating well done to you in his post. that was for two reasons. The first for giving us all the necessary details surrounding the alleged breach. the second well done was for not appealing a possibly giving away who was driving. As you the keeper is not responsible now for paying the PCN and Highview do not know who was driving they will have difficulty if the take you to Court since Courts do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person which is quite right considering that quite often family members often drive as opposed to the keeper as can loads of other people drive your  who have valid insurance motor policies.

So don't worry even if you have to go to Court as the odds are in your favour and that's before we see the contract and Witness Statement which often give more ammunition against them.

[dx100uk]

post up your snotty here first!

dx

[Nicky Boy]

14 hours ago, anotheruser0000 said:

hi, dx, last 2 pages of pdf, PAPLOC, not sure what that means, I am new and still reading up on stuff

PAPLOC = Pre Action Protocol Letter Of Claim.

Heres a handy guide to sme of the acronyms you'll see on the forum...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/147286-posting-in-this-forum-and-a-z-of-motoring-terms/#comment-4399743

 

[anotheruser0000]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks very much for the replies and all the help so far.

Been short on time and had internet problems but hoping to get this sorted today.

@lookinforinfo When you said they didn't comply with Section 9(2)(e), they didn't quote the section but did state on the PCN "as we do not know the drivers details or current postal address,  if you were not the driver at the time" etc etc.

Does that not comply with the statement under (e) ?

So, reading through the act:

(2)The notice must—

(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

As you say, they have specified a "duration of stay" and not a period of parking.

Just working out a letter at the moment.

 

Thanks.

[honeybee13]

That could be more detail than you in a snotty letter, but please post it up when you're ready and we'll help you to refine it.

HB

[FTMDave]

I think you may be mistaking the point of the snotty letter.

Arguments about POFA would be very useful if you were arguing the matter in court in front of a judge.  But you're not at that point yet and hopefully will never be.

The point of a snotty letter is to drum into Highview and DCBL's thick skulls that this anotheruser0000 person is a pain in the backside who isn't scared of them and is likely to hit them hard in the wallet if they did do court.  So best to leave anotheruser0000 in peace and go after some mug who they can intimidate into paying up.

[anotheruser0000]

Ah, yes, I won't be referring to any of that in the letter, I was just wondering that point while I construct my letter.

 

Thanks.

[anotheruser0000]

Hi Everyone,

 

I was thinking of keeping the SL short and simple, something like this:

 

Dear TV Stars, (and Highview)

In response to your Letter of Claim

Re: PCN no.XXXXX

 

How delightful it is to receive examples of your attempts to fleece motorists and patrons of various businesses.

Your persistence truly is commendable, albeit misguided.

Firstly, I must express my sincere gratitude for your contribution to my entertainment fund.

Your pennies have been put to excellent use in providing me with endless chuckles.

However, your belief that you are owed anything beyond that is as laughable as it is absurd.

You quote parts of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 but have you actually read the act in whole?

If you haven't I suggest you do so now as it might save you a few quid in court.

Take a look at your own Code of Practice as well, while you're at it.

In conclusion, allow me to offer my sincerest wishes: may this be the last we hear from each other because at this time of year, the money I spent on the stamp could have been put towards a visit from the Easter Bunny!

With the warmest regards (not really),

anotheruser0000

 

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

Nice one!

Just giving them a couple of clues that you know what you're doing and being facetious along with it.

[anotheruser0000]

Thank you Nicky Boy

And thanks for the earlier posting of the guide to acronyms, most helpful

[FTMDave]

That is one cracking snotty letter.

A snotty letter can't just be abuse, you have to show them that legally their case is pants ... while at the same time not playing your cards too early.  It's a tight line to walk.  You do it superbly by mentioning POFA and the CoP without letting on where they've messed up.  Well done.

Write at the bottom COPIED TO HIGHVIEW PARKING LTD, invest in two 2nd class stamps tomorrow, and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

So Nick, where is this letter in your 2024 so far Snotty Letter of the Year league table?

[Nicky Boy]

Must be leading right now  but there's a long time to go...

[FTMDave]

As you have to go to the post office tomorrow, I suggest you send a third letter to -

Riverside Retail Park
Albion Way
Norwich
NR1 1WU.

Lay it on thick about being a genuine customer, about the overstay being short and in any case within the consideration & grace periods, attach any proof of purchase, emphasise you were at the retail park's shops the whole time - and demand that they call off Highview who are threatening you with court action.

It may be a complete waste of a stamp.

Or the retail park could be very cooperative.  We've seen both reactions plenty of times.

Nothing ventured ...

 

[anotheruser0000]

Thank you FTM Dave,

I have to credit the author of the original letter on this forum that I "borrowed" from and inspired my letter, which was you, lol!

We can split the prize for Letter of The Year!

I can do the letter to Riverside, unfortunately I don't have any proof of purchase to enclose but I was at Riverside the whole time, nothing ventured and all that.

By my calculations I've still got ten days to reply so I will get to the Post Office in a day or two.

[lookinforinfo]

Anotheruser they did mention some of S9 [2][e] but missed out the vital part by not  inviting the KEEPER to pay the debt.

Major fail. 

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

 

[anotheruser0000]

Yes, after reading through the act and reading again their letters and with your clarification, I can clearly see that.

As you say, a Major fail on their part.

 

Thank you.

[anotheruser0000]

Hi All,

I was going to post an update after a month had passed since I sent my SN but didn't get around to it,

after about two weeks I received a letter from Highview letting me know the opportunity to appeal had been missed, Shame, lol! ....

On Sat 13th (the 13th! Aaarggghh! ) I received a Claim Form from DCB(L) .... seems they wish to pursue the matter through the courts!

These people really are tiresome ....

Details to follow ....

(EDIT: just noticed this is the 13th post as well! .... not that I'm superstitious, lol! )

[FTMDave]

Did you get any joy from the Retail Park?

Please fill this in for the claim form -