UKPC ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - vehicle on site during restricted no parking period - Rom Valley Retail Park, Romford, RM7 0AF

[wv600]

1 Date of the infringement 17/03/2023

 

2 Date on the NTK  21/03/2023

 

3 Date received 22/03/2023
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  YES
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, entry and exit photos
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Not applicable as not appealed yet
 

7 Who is the parking company? UKPC

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Rom Valley Retail Park, Romford, RM7 0AF
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

British Parking Association (BPA)

 

UKPC Rom Valley Retail Park-1redacted.pdf

[dx100uk]

await their letter of claim if one ever comes 

please do not appeal

 

can you go and get photos of the signs you said arent there?

is this local to you?

 

 

dx

 

[wv600]

Thanks dx100uk

 

I've uploaded pics of the signs from Google streetview using postcode RM7 0AF.  It was dark and I didn't see any of these signs as I parked on the right as you enter (marked with red arrow) and there are no signs against the building on that side.  The sign at the entrance is also very small so had no idea there were restrictions.

 

 Unfortunately I'm not local so would be difficult to get clearer pictures of the signs.

 

Pic 1 & 2 - Sign at entrance

Pic 3 & 4 - Signs when you exit

Pic 5 - Signs inside the carpark - Zoomed but not clear enough 

Pic 6 & 7 & 8 - Shows where I parked (red arrow) and nearest sign (yellow arrow)

Signs.pdf

Edited March 26, 2023 by wv600

[lookinforinfo]

The PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 as it does not invite the keeper to. pay the charge. As such only the driver can be liable for the charge, not the keeper.

As so many people are legally  able to drive your car they will have a hard job trying to prove who was driving as Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. That is why we advise not appealing as in appealing the driver may be revealed.

In addition it can be claimed in this instance that the £100 charge is a penalty since there is no legitimate interest in pursuing you as there is no financial gain to the client in charging you that amount. 

[brassnecked]

They are on a hiding to nothing with that one as LFI indicates No POFA compliance so cannot be transferred No appeal people out themselves inadvertently as Driver with appeals quite often.

[Nicky Boy]

Guys,

The QR codes are still visible!

[brassnecked]

Nipped in and redacted them

[wv600]

Notice To Keeper - Final reminder

 

Received this in the post a couple of days ago - continue to ignore?

Notice to Keeper - Final Reminder.pdf

Edited April 14, 2023 by wv600

[dx100uk]

Not a letter of claim

[wv600]

I have now received the attached LETTER OF CLAIM in the post.  Please advise next steps....

Many thanks in advance

 

Letter of Claim.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

Your next step is to do a search on CAG for a suitable 'snotty letter' to send them. Either type 'snotty letter' into the white search box on the right at the top of this page, in the red strip, or go through threads in our Parking Successes subforum. Have a look for people who have had LBCs from UKPC.

HB

[Nicky Boy]

CAG is self help. You should really be reading other threads to get an idea of what comes next. Even more so, now you've got to this stage.

You'll need to know your way around legal arguments if it actually does get to court. You'll be the one presenting your case...

[wv600]

Thanks Honeybee13 and Nicky boy for your replies....

 

I have drafted the following snotty letter, ready to post 27 days after the date on the Letter of Claim letter(14 June), so if I understand correctly, on 11 July? 

 

Any feedback appreciated!

 

Dear UKPC

 

I have received your letter dated 14 June 2023 headed: “Letter of Claim”.

 

Now, I’m surprised people still fall for your bullying tactics……Well, sorry to disappoint, but I don’t!  So I suggest you focus your efforts elsewhere as I have NO intention of paying the sum mentioned in the letter AND I am fully aware your claim has NO basis in law.

 

Perhaps you could spend your time more constructively, as it would be wasted in this instance.

 

I shall not respond to any more of your harassment letters, unless you decide to waste the Courts valuable time – in which case I would be more than happy to defend myself and send you packing with your tail between your legs.   So please stop wasting my time and save yourself the embarrassment!

 

Yours truly,

[Nicky Boy]

If you don't mind  some constructive criticism, it's a rather "posh" snotty letter.

A bit more insulting would be good?

 

Also don't forget their reference number/s.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Nicky Boy
typo

[lookinforinfo]

wv600 I am so sorry but I misled you about the PCN being non compliant because they had not asked you to pay the charge. On checking the PCN while they have said it they have still got the PCN wrong. 

They are supposed to specify the parking time when what they have actually done is to use the arrival and exit times as the parking period. This is obviously wrong since you would have had to drive from the entrance to the parking spot and perhaps have to manoeuvre back and forward to be parked within the lines.

On top of that there may have been children or disabled people with you who would have taken longer to exit the car and then re-enter it when leaving. Then you have to drive back to the exit perhaps having to stop because of pedestrians, other vehicles, animals etc.

All that time spent driving around cannot be termed as the parking period and the new Private Code of practice confirms this. 

2.24 parking period

the length of time that a vehicle has been parked, i.e. left stationary otherwise than in the course of driving, after any relevant consideration period has expired (excluding instances where the driver has stopped to enable passengers to leave or enter the vehicle)

This is not the period between a vehicle being recorded as entering and departing controlled land.

[wv600]

Hello all,

I have received the attached letter from UKPC in response to my snotty letter.  Interested in comments, observations and suggestions on what to do next.  Snotty letter also attached:

Many thanks!

Response to Snotty Letter.pdf

 

Snotty Letter.pdf

[FTMDave]

Good grief!

We thought the regulars here were pretty good at sarcastically telling the fleecers where to go - but you take the snotty letter to a new level.  Well  done!

The whole point of their Letter of Claim was to legally tell you to either pay or it would be court.  But they still haven't got the gonads to do court, they've faffed around writing twice more giving you a final final final chance to pay.

Yours is not the next move.

[brassnecked]

They are hoping you don't know that their invoice isn't POFA compliant, they claim it is in that response. Excellent Snotty Letter btw

[Nicky Boy]

We need to start a "snotty letter of the year" award!

[wv600]

Hello all,

I have now received the Letter of Claim, see attached.  Also see my answers to the questions below.  Appreciated any comments and guidance on next steps.  Understand I have to Acknowledge Service, will do that in the next day or 2 on the back of any guidance received.

 

Which Court have you received the claim from ?

1. MCOL Northampton N1 

If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS) - DONE

Name of the Claimant : UK PARKING CONTROL LTD, UNION HOUSE, 111 NEW UNION STREET, COVENTRY, CV1 2NT          

Claimants Solicitors: NONE STATED, ONLY LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE - ANGELIKA BRZOZOWSKA

 

Date of issue – 14 AUGUST 2023

 

Date for AOS - NOT YET DONE, UNDERSTAND IT IS 19 DAYS FROM DATE OF ISSUE, THEREFORE BY 4PM ON 1 SEPTEMBER 2023 

Date to submit Defence - UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE BY 4PM ON 15 SEPTEMBER

[NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING YOUR TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN ANY COUNT [an example: Issue date 01.03.2020: + 19 days  = 19.03.2020 :+ 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2020: a total of 33 days]

What is the claim for – SEE ATTACHED LETTER OF CLAIM

1. The Defendant (D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge (PCN) issued to the vehicle xxxxxx at Rom Valley Retail Park, Rom Valley Road, Romford, Essex, RM7 0AF.

2. The PCN details are 17/03/2023, xxxxxxxxxxxx

3. The PCN was issued on private land, which is managed by C.

4. The vehicle was parked in breach of terms and conditions provided by signage (the contract), resulting in the PCN.

5. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not; D is liable as the keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding.

6. The C claims £170 being the total of the PCN and damages.

7. C claims costs and court fees.  The Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 17/03/2023 to 11/08/2023 on £170.00 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.02

 

**IMPORTANT** WE NEED TO SEE THE FULL POC MINUS YOUR PERS DETAILS>> NOT AN ABRIDGED VERSION**THIS MUST INCLUDE THE LOCATION  - ATTACHED

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed  - 170.00

court fees - 35.00

legal rep fees  - 50.00

Total Amount - 255.00

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? (y/N - if Y state Date too)

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? Y/N + date and did you reply?

 

Letter of Claim Redacted.pdf

[brassnecked]

So long as you didn't out yourself as Driver,

"5. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not; D is liable as the keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. "

is fatal as no POFA compliance.

[dx100uk]

that's not a letter of claim its a court claimform

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.

then log in to the MCOL Website

.select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.then using the details required from the claimform

.defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

 

 

[wv600]

Thank you dx100uk and brassnecked for your replies.

I have submitted the AOS on the Moneyclaim website today and will post the CPR 31:14 letter to UKPC Ltd tomorrow (no solicitors mentioned anywhere, only a legal representative, ANGELIKA BRZOZOWSKA, so do I address the letter to her at the UKPC LTD address?).

At no point have I admitted to being the driver.

Do I need to do anything else at this stage?

Thanks in advance!

[FTMDave]

They have been very naughty in claiming £50 legal representative's costs - yet the documentation is to be sent to them rather than a legal representative.  A search for Angelika Brzozowska shows she is "Head of Legal at UK Parking Control (UKPC)" (i.e. the tea lady).  Make sure the question of this fictitious cost is added to your defence in mid-September.

[dx100uk]

just dont forget your defence whatever happens or not.

that is in the court sticky further down from the Q&A 

you filed out

dx