UKPCM vanising windscreen PCN - No Parking On Access Roads/Roadways - Watercolour Estate, RH1 1AL

[EveOwes]

Hi. 

I received a ticket in the post a few days ago for stopping on a double yellow line. 

 

The PCN that I received in the post is dated 3/3/23 and i have 14 days before the reduced payment amount expires.  that is either today or tomorrow.

 

I don't have £60 spare atm. 

 

If I appeal it on the basis of:

 

a) had to stop and go to chemist and had disabled child in car who can't be left out of sight and was poorly so couldn't get out of car, or

 

b) didn't see any signs (I will go back and double check, but don't remember seeing any)

 

will that stop the clock at £60 until they write back refusing the appeal???

 

The road never used to have double yellows until they started a housing development at the top of that road and they didn't want to obstruct lorries. 

 

That development is now being finished and some of the properties are actually being lived in.  Yet the double yellows are still there. 

 

There's no other parking available in the area as it's all exclusive to this and that.  

 

Any help and advice appreciated. 

 

I didn't realise until writing this that the deadline had arrived.

 

thanks

 

Edit: based on previous ticket(s) that you guys advised on:

 

The photos were taken at 13:22:57 and 13:23:57 but the incident time is stated on the PCN as 13:58

 

photos on ticket are fuzzy  i might need to double check on their website if possible. 

 

No observation 'period' is mentioned other than the times on the fuzzy photos.

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

The advice is not to appeal. You can throw away valuable legal protection.

 

Could you please follow the instructions here so the team can advise further...

Then, start reading other threads to educate yourself on how these Private Parking Companies are leeches on society. Referred to here as Fleecers.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[Ethel Street]

I'm not sure whether you are referrimg to a Penalty Charge Notice issued by your local council or a Parking Charge Notice issued by a private parking company. Were the double yellow lines on a public road or a private road?

[EveOwes]

1 Date of the infringement 2 March 2023

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 3 March 2023 (received Sunday 12 March - yes we got post on Sunday this week)
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

 

3 Date received received Sunday 12 March - yes we got post on Sunday this week

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] yes
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes, on the ticket
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] no
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? UK Car Park Management

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Thornton Place (I think) but the ticket just says Watercolour Estate, RH1 1AL
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IPC
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE IAS

 

no anpr - it was a person because my grandson saw him taking the pictures but the guy did not stand where i could see him ie by the chemist door.  there is only the chemist, vet and gp buildings there. so don't know why he didn't put ticket on car.

 

 

 

uk cpm 2023-03-16 14-42 (4).pdf

[dx100uk]

So a windscreen ticket and no such thing as dyl's on private land anyway .they mean nothing, purely tarmac graffiti.

 

Scan up the paperwork to date, but ignore everything until/unless you ever get a letter of claim.

 

you are a master at these now and should know better than to even think of appealing

 

Dx

 

 

[EveOwes]

Thanks DX - he could have put the ticket on the windscreen but chose not to.  My young grandson was watching him, but the guy hid from my view.

 

ticket says 'no parking on access roads/roadways

 

It's a Parking Charge Notice. 

 

Apparently the road is part of the watercolour estate in Redhill, Surrey. 

 

The yellow lines are new ish to aid the building of a housing development but that has now been built the reason for the yellows - and the one way system that was put in place while the building was going on - is now null and void. 

Yet these restrictions remain in place.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by EveOwes

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

[brassnecked]

So tarmac graffiti now

 

[EveOwes]

he should have written out a ticket but didn't, he just generated the PCN from their office I guess

[dx100uk]

no i guess about it.

 

its an operator observation and they must afix a ticket and then send an NTK 29-56 days latter.

 

can i also pull you up on something else

their PCN states as you do earlier is was issued because:

No Parking On Access Roads/Roadways

 

nothing to do with any DYL's

 

dx

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome back Eve. 

I cannot read the times on the photos nor is it possible to read any of the writing on the right hand op of the page above the photos.

It is unusual for them to write and additional time after the ones on the photo. The additional time is getting on for 30 minutes after the times on the photos. Is it possible that your car could have been parked there for that long? A few minutes stopped there would be ok to argue you way out of but 30 minutes is more than stretching it.

 

It might be worth ringing the council to see if the road is covered by the Council or whether it is  a private one. UKPCM should not be issuing PCNs on Council roads so that would invalidate their PCN .  So getting the UKPCM signs around where you parked  could be a help as long as they are legible. Is the parking free or is there a payment machine nearby. Please photograph the sign near the machine and any that have different wording to other signs.

[FTMDave]

As we're presuming this is local to you, it would be very useful if you could go back and get photos of the fleecers' signs, both close up and how they would look to a motorist pulling up.

 

Just don't park anywhere they might photograph you

[dx100uk]

its here

you can see the white square by the red car

 

 

24 Thornton Side - Google Maps.pdf

 

and you've yet to receive the NTK either.

 

for someone so good at speculative invoices, you've lost your touch!!

[lookinforinfo]

That is their NTK dx.

 

UKPCM rarely observe PoFA timings when it comes to sending out PCNs.

 

As you can see they have included photos as an NTK should plus that they say they are the creditor and the wording is pretty close to PoFA but it is still a fail.

 

Not only because it arrived twenty days or so early [not sure that all Judges accept that ] but because they have not given the keeper the option of paying the ticket nor providing proof of the parking period.

[dx100uk]

unless the op has removed it.

 

crap scan!!

 

it does not state ntk or notice to keeper....???

 

dx

 

[EveOwes]

Hi.  Just to clarify.

 

I DID NOT have a ticket put on the windscreen

 

I checked their online photos and the guy took a pic of the signage at 13.57 so i don't know. 

I guess I must have left prior to him generating a ticket.

 

I went back there late last night to check the signs but my pics are dire, but as you drive in the road you cannot see a sign because it's behind you and not in front of your eyes at all. 

 

There is another sign on the wall by the GP practice but that is facing into the road and it you don't drive that far up you can't see it. 

 

The sign as you enter the road should really be turned facing the cars as they enter not any other way.

 

On the pic i took last night it says parking only in marked bays (I don't think there are any available for the chemist, except the two disabled bays), and it says no parking on roadways, yellow lines, ..... ?..... and handicapped spaces.

 

I;m tempted to just find the £60. 

Their signs are poor but the chemist service is poorer, hence this delay in getting back in the car and driving off.

 

Seriously, have I a realistic chance of fighting this?  They say online that they have a good record of court action.

thanks

 

@dx100uk There's no white square in this photo that I can see???  This is an old image before it became one way and before they drew the yellow lines etc.

 

the only white square on that wall is a list of the GP's in the medical centre.  It used to be free parking then, before they started the development at which time it was publicly stated that the one way and lines were temporary to aid the lorries getting materials to the site

 

@LookingForInfoThis is the only document I've had and the first i knew of the pcn.  This doc is titled  Parking Charge Notice and it says underneath that Do Not Ignore This Notice.

 

Examining the photos on the 'paymyticket' site it shows the two photos on the pcn showing me parked there for a minute, and it shows a third pic of the signage taken at 13.57 but my car is not visible in that pic. 

 

In fact it wouldn't be anyway because the sign is facing the wrong way. 

It's a one way road now and the signs are not facing the line of sight of the driver. 

 

but according to paymyticket site the pcn was issued at 6am the following day so perhaps it's an automated system ?

 

[Nicky Boy]

Written descriptions are really not a lot of good to anyone...

 

Where's the pics you took last night?

Upload please.

 

Also screenshot of the online photos?

 

We really need good close up pics of the signage wording.

 

The fleecers reason for the ticket was "No Parking On Access Roads/Roadways".

Is this term actually stated on the signage?

 

Also, you state that their photo "evidence" only spans 1 minute.

Fail!

Their own ATA COP allows at least 5 minutes consideration time, so you can decide whether to accept their stupid terms and conditions.

 

If you really want to pay theses leeches £60 rather than stick two fingers up at them...

Whatever...

It's your money!

 

 

[EveOwes]

here's pdf of the signage photo they took which was not shown on my pcn but was shown on the paymyticket website

 

This sign is facing up the road, in the direction of traffic, so cannot be visible to drivers as they enter the road.

 

parking Screen Shot.pdf

Edited March 17, 2023 by EveOwes

[dx100uk]

pdf not working.?

 

 

5 hours ago, EveOwes said:

@dx100uk There's no white square in this photo that I can see???  This is an old image before it became one way and before they drew the yellow lines etc.

 

the only white square on that wall is a list of the GP's in the medical centre.  It used to be free parking then, before they started the development at which time it was publicly stated that the one way and lines were temporary to aid the lorries getting materials to the site

 

look at your 2nd photo from the PCN

on the GROUND by the red car is a circle Drain and a white Cover

the same is on my pic from google earth @2019

thats where he was standing to take that photo.

you can also see the edge of the yellow hatching. 

 

 

photos pcn.pdf 24 Thornton Side - Google Maps.pdf

[EveOwes]

Yes the circle drain is still there but there were no parking restrictions at the time the google maps photos were taken. 

 

it was a two way street and no parking control except in the flats where the red signs indicate private parking. 

 

I will go out today and take a pic of the signage. 

 

I now know there are a number of signs. 

 

There's one as you enter the road, but it's facing up the road so you don't see it.

 

  It's on the post by the vets, after the 'polite notice' sign. T

 

hen there's one on the wall of the medical centre but it's a bit further up the road so I wouldn't have seen it anyway. 

 

And there's one or two more but again further up.

 

I also know that I wasn't there at 13.57 as I had received a whatsapp meme 10 mins before that time and i remember looking at it at home.

 

I am like many other drivers, I saw the double yellows and stopped outside the chemist because I didn't want to leave my grandson unattended as he's disabled and was a bit poorly that day. 

 

I also know there were no spaces next to the chemist wall where the disabled bays are or else I would have parked in one and just kept popping out of the chemist every minute or so to check on my grandson.

 

[Nicky Boy]

So, it sounds like you weren't there when they say so...

Do you have google timeline history on your phone?

Car insurance tracking app?

Receipt from the chemist?

[EveOwes]

I have location services set up on my phone but when I looked it showed only the last 24 hours journeys eg what time I left to drop grandkids to school etc, yet it has 197 records that I cannot see.  I don't know how to unlock that part of the phone.

[Nicky Boy]

Google is your friend

[EveOwes]

ok, well i went there in the daylight there are signs and I should have seen them.  There was one that was visible today that I couldn't see last night.

 

So, on that basis I'm just dumb for not spotting them.

[dx100uk]

Well you still don't resort to paying the scammers!!