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    • The important thing to know is that MET - although they will send you threat after threat about how they will divert a drone from Ukraine and make it fall on your home - hardly ever do court. Even in the very small number of cases where they send court papers, if the Cagger defends, they drop the matter before the hearing.  They have no real intention of putting their rubbish claim before a judge.  The aim is to find motorists who are terrified of the idea of going to court and who will give in when the court papers arrive. Thanks for doing the sticky and well done on finding F18's thread.  Do what they did.  On the first page - I think post 19 - there is the address of the CEO of BP.  Write to them, lay it on thick about being genuine customers in the various premises, mention the small kids, the very short stay time, attach any proof of purchase - and request that they get the invoice cancelled.
    • Thank you for that, I have obviously already been convicted so I think the appeal lodged is for the previous offence? Sorry if that doesn’t make sense. I suppose my only concern is that weds I go there and they don’t let a stat dec happen. If they do then as you say and solicitor says it’s highly likely I’ll be happy with the outcome. But I’m being told there’s no guarantee for the stat dec to be hard Weds as that’s not what the hearing is proposed for. Solicitor has stated that you can put a stat dec before a magistrates at any time so it shouldn’t be a problem.   
    • I re-read the extract from your  solicitor's letter this morning and think I might understand what they have in mind. I believe (and it’s only a guess) their strategy is this: 1.    You will make your SD 2.    You will enter fresh pleas to the four charges (not guilty) but will offer to plead guilty to speeding on the understanding that the FtP charges are dropped. 3.    If this is accepted they will attempt to argue that the two offences were committed “on the same occasion” 4.    You will be sentenced for those two offences (the sentence depending on whether the “same occasion” argument succeeds). They also have a plan in the event that your offer at (2) is unsuccessful and you are convicted again of the 2xFtP charges (and so face disqualification under “totting up”): 5.    They will make an “exceptional hardship” argument to avoid a ban. 6.    If that is unsuccessful they have already lodged an appeal in the Crown Court against that decision. (This is the only “appeal” I can think of). 7.    They plan to ask the court to suspend your ban pending that appeal. If I’m correct, I’m surprised the Crown Court has agreed to accept a speculative appeal (against something that hasn’t happened). The solicitor says this is to lodge it within the normal timescales. But you will have 21 days from the date of your conviction (which will be next Wednesday) to lodge an appeal with the Crown Court, so there is no need for a speculative appeal. I have to say that an application to have your ban suspended pending an appeal is unlikely to succeed. The Magistrates Court is unlikely to agree to it for one very good reason: if they make such an order (suspending your ban until your appeal is heard), all you need to do is not to pursue the appeal and the Magistrates order suspending your ban will remain in place. Hey Presto! No ban and no need for you to trouble with an appeal. Perhaps he will ask for your ban to be suspended for (say) three months or until your appeal is heard (whichever occurs first). This potentially creates a problem because if your appeal is not heard in that time either your ban will kick in or you will have o go back to court to get the suspension extended. But the solicitor obviously knows more about these things than I do. I would want to be very clear about this solicitor’s fees and what he proposes to charge you for. As I said, there is absolutely no need to lodge an appeal with the Crown Court. That can be done if and when it becomes required. But I am still firmly of the opinion that it is overwhelmingly likely that you will not need to progress beyond point 2 above. Point 3 is optional and I don’t know whether he solicitor has made It clear to you that the only thing you will avoid in the event of success is three penalty points. You will still be fined for the second offence and your driving record will still be endorsed with the details, but no penalty points will be imposed. Do let us know how it goes.  
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    • John Lewis' Privacy Notice states that their CCTV Systems does not use facial recognition or collect biometric data - so I assume it should be fine?    Thank you a lot for your reply. I've scheduled my first therapy session ne t week. Really the time to turn my life around..
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UKPCLtd/DCB legal ANPR PCN claimform - McDonalds Baguley 1062 673 Altrincham Road, Wythenshawe M23 9AA.


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I've been on the site seven years and never seen one judge look badly on saying no to mediation.

 

Have you ever seen an example on any of the other similar threads you've read?

 

Sorry, but your brother is the one that's being sued, therefore your brother is the one who will have to go to court.

We could do with some help from you.

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Again it’s easy to say but not so easy to do especially if you’re not well and have never been to any sort of court before. 


I guess as I’m trying to give him some advice on this I’m torn between trying to get some sort of resolution as it’s easily possible he could go to court and lose (along with all the additional stress that could cause). 


Is there anything to lose with mediation, you don’t have to accept any outcome? 


Also, in regards to suitability for determination, might that be a way to avoid court for him?

Especially as there are no experts/witnesses to call. 


Do you believe the legal arguments are strong enough to beat them?

Would I be allowed to go too? 

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Yes you can attend the hearing as a Mckenzie friend, I will be doing this with my daughter who also has a claim against her from UKPC/DCB Legal.

US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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We're obviously sorry to hear about health problems, but the unfortunate reality is that your brother is stuck with the legal system in England & Wales like all of us are.  He's being sued, he goes to court.  That's the law.

 

As far as I know courts are open to the public, so yes you could go too.

 

However, he's the one who will have to deal with the case in court.

 

You're re right about being worried about him losing.  We've sadly seen here several times that a brother/friend/partner of someone in legal trouble comes here, puts in a lot of research and superbly gens up on legal arguments - but then a completely different person goes to court, hasn't got a clue, and loses.

 

He should be the one running the thread.

 

As for the rest, only he can decide.  It's bemusing as to why he decided to not pay the fleecers their £60 and instead battle them, if now he won't/can't battle them.  As a guestimate we've already tried to put the figures that mediation would achieve.  The decision is up to him. 

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Nobody has mentioned what mediation might achieve.

Somebody said that ‘settlement might knock a tenner off’ but that was settlement directly with the claimants solicitors not mediation with an independent mediator. I assumed that would be different. 


I was very clear with the legal arguments previously when I was dealing with DCA’s but have to admit in spite of doing research it seems a bit more sketchy with this.

 

He didn’t pay previously as that was the advice.

But clearly it’s at the stage now where it can’t be ignored so I’m trying to help him. 


And to answer your question, he’s ill now but wasn’t then (over a year ago), his hope was this wouldn’t come this far.

Now it has, it can’t be ignored

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11 minutes ago, broken arrow said:

Yes you can attend the hearing as a Mckenzie friend, I will be doing this with my daughter who also has a claim against her from UKPC/DCB Legal.

but you cannot speak for the defendant.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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All the independent mediator does is pass messages between the parties, so whatever result it will achieve will be similar to contacting the fleecers directly.

 

As a guestimate I've said they might knock £25 off but I don't really know, no-one here ever chooses mediation in a PPC case. 

 

If something like that might be acceptable to him, then fine, choose mediation.

We could do with some help from you.

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8 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

but you cannot speak for the defendant.

 

dx

 

 

Although you,re not entitled to speak on their behalf, you can ask for" rights of audience", the Judge will probably decline, but the last time I did it, I was allowed, I ended up speaking more than the defendant, but as a minimum you can take notes, pass notes etc.

US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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Noted. Do you think the legal arguments are sufficient if presented correctly to win v UKPC? This is what I’m unsure with this. I’ve tried to see but have there been lots of success stories on PPC cases once it gets to court? 
Is it possible they might still not proceed before it gets to court? 

 

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On 04/01/2023 at 20:31, FTMDave said:

I recently had to work out CAG court victories over the last two and a bit years with one of the PPCs, and it was over 80%.  So he has an 80%+ chance of winning in court if he prepares his case properly.

 

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You can appear with the defendant as a Lay Representative and speak for them with the judges approval. I just did this.

 

On returning the WS I asked that my partner attend with me and appear as Lay Representative.

 

On the day the judge asked my partner if that was ok.

She asked the Claimant's solicitor if she was ok with that.

 

All agreed and my partner presented the whole case on my behalf.

A McKenzie friend is different to  Lay representative

Edited by dx100uk
great post!! - dx
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Ok folks. Due to my brothers current fragile mental state I’m proposing the following. 


1. Will refuse mediation


2. Will agree to suitability of determination as this means I can help prepare the legal arguments on paper with advice from here (WS completion etc) without putting him through an appearance before a DJ. 


I realise this isn’t what would be advised by the experts and as much as I’d love to screw them down in court some things are more important and that includes my brothers mental health. If it was my case I’d be there in a heartbeat. I can’t take the risk the judge won’t let me speak on his behalf, he just wouldn’t be able to handle it. 


I’ll complete the DQ and come back at next stage. 


At least we can drag it out as long as possible

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2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (read all the posts in N180 link above for the reason)

you do the above as advised.

 

as for you and him in court as @nightnajjers excellent post above

You can appear with the defendant as a Lay Representative and speak for them with the judges approval. 

 

that you address later in the process . not for the N180.

fill it out exactly as my guide earlier above.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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And what happens if the judge doesn’t give his approval? I just can’t put my brother through it! 
Not everything is as black and white as you see it I’m afraid. 
Andy says in that thread to say no if there are witnesses that the judge needs to hear from. There aren’t any witnesses so it doesn’t seem to apply here 

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presston,

 

You are comitting to nothing following dx's advice.

 

Even if the judge disallows lay representation, (I would think unlikely with your very reasonable explanation on his state of mind) your brother could back down at the very last second and allow judge to make decision without him speaking.

We could do with some help from you.

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Practical Direction 27A Small Claims Track

(2) a lay representative means any other person.

3.2

(1) A party may present his own case at a hearing or a lawyer or lay representative may present it for him.

(2) The Lay Representatives (Right of Audience) Order 1999 provides that a lay representative may not exercise any right of audience:–

(a) where his client does not attend the hearing;

(b) at any stage after judgment; or

(c) on any appeal brought against any decision made by the district judge in the proceedings.

(3) However the court, exercising its general discretion to hear anybody, may hear a lay representative even in circumstances excluded by the Order.

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48 The Representation of the People Act 1983 is amended in accordance with paragraphs 49 to 52.

 

49 In section 86 (authorised excuses for failures as to return and declarations)—

 

(a)in subsection (1A), for “or solicitor” substitute “ , solicitor or authorised person ”, and

(b)after that subsection insert—

(1B)In subsection (1A) “authorised person” means a person (other than a barrister or solicitor) who, for the purposes of the Legal Services Act 2007, is an authorised person in relation to an activity which constitutes the exercise of a right of audience (within the meaning of that Act).”

We could do with some help from you.

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Broken Arrow a Mackenzie friend is a term used in CRIMINAL cases, where a person (not being authorised to have right of audience such as solicitor) can sit with a defendant and assist them by handing them documents, look up legal books, suggest questions to ask witnesses (written notes) etc. They cannot address the court.

My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the Heart. Thank you

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9 minutes ago, Gick said:

Broken Arrow a Mackenzie friend is a term used in CRIMINAL cases, where a person (not being authorised to have right of audience such as solicitor) can sit with a defendant and assist them by handing them documents, look up legal books, suggest questions to ask witnesses (written notes) etc. They cannot address the court.

I,ve been a Mckenzie friend on 3 occasions, all in civil procedures and on 2 occasions I have been allowed right of audience, the term derives from a divorce hearing in the 70,s between McKenzie and McKenzie.

US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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  • 2 months later...

Have a look at this sticky.

 

It describes how to visit the local county court and familiarise yourself with what goes on.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/373518-guidance-note-making-a-county-court-familiarisation-visit/

 

Maybe doing something like this might put your brother at ease.  Just an idea.

We could do with some help from you.

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As far as I can determine now, you do not need the Courts permission to use a lay representative. 

 

when researching  I read some where that you need permission, I can't find that rule anywhere now.

 

When I sent my ws. I asked the courts permission to have a  lay representative.

 

On actually being in Court the Judge was unaware (or did not mention it) that I had requested a lay representative. I am almost sure it has to be allowed. 

 

Prestton could just phone the Court and make certain that is the case,

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  • 2 weeks later...

yep await the 17th.

thread tidied

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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