UKPCLtd/DCB legal ANPR PCN claimform - McDonalds Baguley 1062 673 Altrincham Road, Wythenshawe M23 9AA.

[prestton]

Hi All

 

Please see attached court claim (with personal details removed) for a court claim recieved from UKPC for overstaying in a McDonalds free car park. 

 

I've acknowledged service and would look to use the template defence but wanted to know if there is anything else I need to consider/be aware of.

 

Many thanks

 

Tony

McD.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Hi Prestton,

 

Please follow the intructions in the sticky...

 

 

And the guys will offer advice when they can.

[prestton]

Name of the Claimant :  UKPC

 

Claimants Solicitors: (if one is stated)DCB Legal

 

Date of issue – 31/10/22

 

Date for AOS -Already submitted - intent to defend all

 

Date to submit Defence - 02/12/22

 

What is the claim for –  

 

 

POC

1. The defendant (D) is indebted to the claimant (C) for a parking charge issued to vehicle XXXX at McDonalds Baguley 1062 673 Altrincham Road, Wythenshawe M23 9AA. 

 

2. The PCN details are 05/09/2021 XXXXX

 

3. The PCN was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the terms on Cs signs (the contract) thus incurring the PCN.

 

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. The contract entitles C to damages. 

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 

1. £170 being the total of the PCN and damages. 

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the county courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.02 until judgment or sooner payment. 

3. Costs and court fees.

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

 

Amount Claimed £185.60

court fees £35.00

legal rep fees £50.00

Total Amount £270.60

[FTMDave]

Well done on doing AoS and filling in the sticky.  Thanks.

 

Can you please upload the original PCN?

 

Briefly, what caused you to get the invoice?

 

And did the fleecers send you a Letter Before Claim?

[prestton]

Hi Dave

 

Many thanks for replying.

 

This is for my brother who has only now come to me for help.

 

He originally overstayed the free car park in McDonalds, waiting for our mother who was at a nearby hospital appointment.

 

He's sadly not got any of the original paperwork (only the court claim) as the original PCN was issued over a year ago. He's not sure if he received a letter before claim!

 

Tony

[dx100uk]

 

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

[FTMDave]

The thing is, the overstay might only be short and within the grace + consideration periods - or it might not.

 

UKPC might not have bothered to follow the legal timescales in the Protection of Freedoms Act - or they might have.

 

We need to see the original PCN.

 

Time to get the CPR request off as dx says.  They may produce a copy of the invoice.

 

But a CPR request is just that, a request.  The fleecers' solicitors may not play ball.  But go for it as Plan A.  If there's no reply in say a fortnight, he can SAR UKPC.

 

 

[prestton]

Hi Both

 

Will get the CPR request sent off this weekend.

 

Daft question, can you email the CPR request or does it have to be written by post?

[brassnecked]

Post with a Free Proof of Posting from Post Office, we don't recommend e'mail as it gib=ves fleecer's a way to send legal documents at 11:59:59 the day before a hearing giving you no chance to challenge anything dodgy they send.

[prestton]

Understood. CPR printed out, will take to post office first thing.

[FTMDave]

And have a friendly brotherly go at him for chucking the paperwork away.

 

It's always a bad idea when you're in legal dispute, he now has to play catch up and doesn't have the evidence to defend himself.

 

 

[prestton]

Don’t worry! He’s been duly told!

[dx100uk]

their POC does not state WHAT he has done WRONG.

 

i suspect it will be exceeding free parking time BUT...even though this is a stand alone Mc'd it would be very unusual for the council, when granting the original planning permission to limit parking to xxx mins

 

might be worthy to see what it actually says on the relevant council site?

 

 

[prestton]

Hi DX

 

He remembers that it was for exceeding the free parking time, he was waiting for Mum to complete her appointment at Wythenshawe hospital

 

Tony

[dx100uk]

yes but the judge doesn't know that as the poc states nothing of the kind.

[prestton]

CPR request sent today first class signed for 

[lookinforinfo]

In light of the recent request by the Manchester court for clarification of the VCS case against Didusha is there any value in the OP writing to the Court claiming that the paucity of information on the POC  which is a requirement of  CPR 16.4 [1][a] makes it harder to put in an appropriate defence.

[prestton]

Ok folks, defence due in by end of next week, plan is to submit the below template defence from Andy's sticky, including the point on double recovery due to those mentioned in the POC and a mention that the POC mentions no offence (maybe needs wording differently?), also should the defence match up point to point to the POC or does that not matter?

 

No response at all from the solicitors to the CPR request. 

 

Is there anything else needing to be added/amended at this stage? All advice gratefully received. 

 

POC

1. The defendant (D) is indebted to the claimant (C) for a parking charge issued to vehicle XXXX at McDonalds Baguley 1062 673 Altrincham Road, Wythenshawe M23 9AA. 

 

2. The PCN details are 05/09/2021 XXXXX

 

3. The PCN was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the terms on Cs signs (the contract) thus incurring the PCN.

 

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. The contract entitles C to damages. 

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 

1. £170 being the total of the PCN and damages. 

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the county courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.02 until judgment or sooner payment. 

3. Costs and court fees.

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature and fails to disclose any offence and which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [XXXXXXX].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by McDonalds and the terms of entry are set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

[FTMDave]

Almost perfect.  Do we know that McDonalds are the landowner?  They might be renting from someone else.

[prestton]

Ah no I guess not, I was making that assumption. Is there a better way of wording it without mentioning the landowner at all? 

[FTMDave]

Yes, just replace the paragraph which mentions McDonalds with the similar paragraph in the sticky.

[prestton]

Understood, do I need to mention no response to the CPR request at this stage?

[prestton]

reply received to the CPR request, uploaded here (there were also some more pictures of the car arrival and departure time stamped, along with pics of the signage in the car park).

 

Does this change the proposed defence at all?

 

 

 

CPR Return.pdf

[brassnecked]

So who would affix a PCN to a windscreen as per the sign?

[prestton]

States patrols and/or ANPR doesn’t it?