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UKPC/DCB(L) PCN Claimform - McDonalds, Ardwick, Manchester, Stockport Road


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Hi all,

Apologies if I regularly sound thick when trying to understand things going forwards. I was always under the impression that these private company fines can be ignored but finally had one catch up with me and became a more formal thing. I checked some online forums and wrote up a reply to be uploaded onto MCOL website.

I made the mistake of entering my email address and they contacted me by email to say that I should settle:

Good afternoon


Having reviewed the content of your defence, we write to inform you that our client intends to proceed with the claim.

In due course, the Court will direct both parties to each file a directions questionnaire. In preparation for that, please find attached a copy of the Claimant's, which we confirm has been filed with the Court.

Without Prejudice to the above, in order to assist the Court in achieving its overriding objective, our client may be prepared to settle this case - in the event you wish to discuss settlement, please call us on 0203 434 0433 within 7 days and make immediate reference to this correspondence.

If you have provided an email address within your Defence, we intend to use it for service of documents (usually in PDF format) hereon in pursuant to PD 6A (4.1)(2)(c). Please advise whether there are any limitations to this (for example, the format in which documents are to be sent and the maximum size of attachments that may be received). Unless you advise otherwise, we will assume not.

Kind Regards, 

Cameron Miller

DCB Legal Ltd  

 

I did not make any contact and have since received a notice of proposed allocation to small claims track. I did check the mcol intermittently and could not see any updates so had hoped it had gone away. However, that has the following as latest updates:

Claim Status

A claim was issued against you on 20/04/2023

Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 09/05/2023 at 14:54:46

Your acknowledgment of service was received on 10/05/2023 at 08:05:16

Your defence was submitted on 22/05/2023 at 13:17:06

Your defence was received on 22/05/2023 at 16:05:06

Case Stay Lifted on 14/08/2023

DQ sent to you on 14/08/2023

DQ filed by claimant on 14/08/2023

What does the "case stay lifted" mean? Would it have been stayed because they missed a deadline or is this now something that I am going to have to go to court for?

It appears to be related to a parking issue at a McDonald's car park, where multiple purchases were made but apparently some max parking time deadlines were exceeded.

Amount Claimed
£205.04
Court Fee
£35.00
Solicitor Costs
£50.00
 
Total Amount
£290.04
Issue Date
20/04/2023
 
I would really appreciate any advice and help on next steps. I have been given until 31st August ti complete a small claims direction questionnaire.
 
Thanks
NS

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC/DCB(L) PCN Claimform -

Hi and welcome to CAG.

First please fill out this sticky...

 

Then fill out this sticky...

 

We could do with some help from you.

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first IT IS NOT A FINE!!.

can you please complete this:

 

and post up a copy of the defence your filed too.

we will also need to see bothsides of every letter scanned up to one mass PDF.

read our upload guide carefully.

did you send a CPR 31.14 when you got the claimform to DCB(L)?

get ell the above done please then we will have ALL the correct info to advise your PROPERLY

without each bit, we might make mistakes.

DQ is easy, but we'll deal with that once we read everything.

dx

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the prompt replies- I'll get to work on getting it all PDF'd and will upload shortly. 

I did not send a CPR 31.14 after getting the claim form from DCBL. 

The defence I filed is as follows (I think it may have been sourced from this same forum?):

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and
generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4. The
Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r
16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a
specific response has not been made.

1. The Defendant was the recorded keeper of AA11 AAA.

2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with
the Claimant.

3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services
Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer
and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the
landowner to provide car-park management services and is not
capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own
account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by
the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has
authority to bring this claim.

4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of
a contract with the Claimant.

5. The Defendant has not been provided with any information to
identify the driver at the time of the incident in question.

6. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an
additional sum not included in the original offer, at a
disproportionate amount.

7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is
denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any
relief at all.

8. Further defence documentation will follow receipt of further
details to enrich the current particulars of claim, furnishing the
Defendant with more (any) concrete points on which the Claimant
brings this claim.

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not sure where 8 came from..:noidea: but thats utter total BS whomever dreamt it up...:lol:

get a cpr running tODAY . should have been done the day you got the claim!

.get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Which Court have you received the claim from ?

  1. MCOL Northampton N1 ?

If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS)

Name of the Claimant :           UK Parking Control Limited

Claimants Solicitors: DCB Legal

Date of issue – 20 APR 2023

Date for AOS - 8 May 2023

Date to submit Defence - 22 May 2023

What is the claim for  Particulars of Claim

1. The Defendant(D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle AA11 AAA at McDonalds Ardwick 327, 129 Stockport Road, ardwick, m12 4ab

2. The PCN details are 26/10/2020, ************* 

3.The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s).

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN(s) is outstanding. The Contract entitles C to damages.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £170 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.02 until judgment or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees

What is the value of the claim? £170

Amount Claimed £205.04 

court fees £35.00

legal rep fees £50.00

Total Amount £290.04

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? N

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? Y, dated 17 March 2023, I did not reply

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Thank you.

The important things now are (a) to send a CPR to the fleecers' solicitors, (b) upload here the original PCN from the charlatans, and (c) send the court their DQ - you still have quite a bit of time to do this by.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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1 Date of the infringement 26/10/2020

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 30/11/2020 (cannot find an earlier letter- fairly sure I would not have discarded it... 🤔)

3 Date received Unsure

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N

7 Who is the parking company? Uk parking control Limited

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Mcdonald's, Ardwick, Manchester, Stockport Road

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA

 

Notification letter UK parking control limited McDonald-s Ardwick Manchester.pdf

N1 UK parking control limited (McDonald-s, Ardwick, Manchester)-1.pdf

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  • honeybee13 changed the title to UKPC/DCB(L) PCN Claimform - McDonalds, Ardwick, Manchester, Stockport Road

You've left the fleecers' PCN number on the claim form - you might want to redact that.

That's not the original PCN, it's a reminder letter.  Hopefully the CPR will produce it.  Make a note to come back here in a fortnight, and if the CPR hasn't come up trumps we can sort a SAR out.

We could do with some help from you.

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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No need to do anything.  Fellow Site Team member Nicky Boy has sorted the problem out.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Great, thanks. 

 

This is the final PDF of all the letters received. 

 

I think I've redacted all the relevant bits. 

 

I will get the CPR sent. 

 

Is there anything specific I need to add for the DQ- I assume I say Y to mediation, N to suitability for determination without a hearing, ask for it to be at my local County Court or remote, and am the only witness? 

I also have not been able to identify the driver to the parking company. Also, does this have to be posted or is there any way to email it? (I did try to contact the court for this earlier but was on hold throughout my lunch break so couldn't get through)

Final Compressed Single PDF of letters, UKPC-DCB(L) PCN Claimform-McDonald-s Ardwick Manchester Stockport Road.pdf

Final Compressed Single PDF of letters, UKPC-DCB(L) PCN Claimform-McDonald-s Ardwick Manchester Stockport Road.pdf

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dont use email. use 1st class stamp get free proof of posting from any po counter, it does not hurt if its a day or 2 late you are a LiP (litigant in person - joe public against the system- you get certain leeway)


https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347310-legal-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track-correct-at-sept-2016/#comment-5088148

3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (read all the posts in N180 link above for the reason)

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to sols (omit phone/sig/email)

1 for your file

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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When sending the CPR, is there any benefit to request photographs of the car being parked or do the company only need entry and exit stamps?

I'm fairly sure that the driver would have taken a few trips through the drive-through to get top-ups of coffee- this was during Covid lockdown times and everyone was remote working, so I can only guess that whoever the driver was was doing some work remotely and probably just lost track of time? The car park doesn't require exit of the car park to re-enter the drive-through, and re-order. 

 

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just send it as is.

there is no legal requirement for them to relpy...

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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also had to hide your post with all the letters

got to page 5 and already spotted various ref no's showing like on page 2 reg and ref showing

please recheck and remove bar codes and qrcode boxs too!! and put it back up

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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NHYPS,

You're thinking about things. Good.

The fleecers do try to use entry exit times as the period of parking... No! They're not allowed to do that.

As you read more threads, you'll pick up lots of wrinkles and cheats like this.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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NHYPS,

Something else fairly important is that the fleecers have made it clear in your first post that they intend to use email to serve documents on you.

This is very concerning. You must write to them (Royal Mail) telling them that ALL further communication is to be conducted by Royal Mail ONLY!

Get free proof of posting and keep it safe.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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You must have received a PCN  shortly after the 26th October through the post dated the 30th October. If you don't have it now you should receive it with the CPR request you sent. Failing that you will receive it if they  decide to take you to Court  it will be included in their Witness Statement to you. 

The first PCN is critical since if it does not comply with the Protection of freedoms act 2012 [ and many of them do not] then they cannot transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper. So yo as keeper are in the clear. and if you were the driver but have not appealed or told them that you were the driver it will be difficult for them to win should they take you to Court. [Courts do not allow them to claim that the driver and the keeper are the same person].

Whenever you receive the original PCN could you please post it up as it is often the first step in avoiding payment to those rogues.

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I worried I'd missed stuff on the pdf 🤦‍♂️

I'll re-post once I've edited properly. 

Also, I did note to write to them about email not being a mode of contact, from bradfordlad's thread. 

What does the 'case stay lifted' refer to? Is it just a formality for them to have it lifted, and does it mean that they missed some deadlines?

 

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry for being AWOL...

Finally got round to uploading the CPR information received (a couple of weeks ago now)- hopefully correctly redacted

There is nothing about the contract with the landowner. and no reference to whether the driver had periods of time of re-ordering a coffee during the duration of the times listed. 

And MCOL has not reflected my DQ response yet, although I have proof of receipt as I sent it as recorded delivery. 

 

Redacted CPR Response mcdonalds ardwick manchester, Stockport road copy.pdf

Edited by Nicky Boy
More redaction on PDF
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Excellent, so later on in your Witness Statement you can point out that they refused to show a contract or proof of planning permission when requested.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Just a thought guys...

Would this very specific wording on their signage prevent them from using POFA?

sign extract.pdf

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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