VCS SpyCar PCN Claimform - Bristol Airport PCN No. 1

[honeybee13]

I thought you could submit a defence via MCOL.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

Yes, do it on MCOL.

[southwestram]

OK. I have MCOL open and have submitted defences for both charges

Defence is: - 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are 
generic in nature which fails to comply  with CPR 16.4.  The 
Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 
16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a 
specific response has not been made.

1. Paragraph 1 is denied. It is denied that I ever entered into a 
contract to breach any terms and conditions of the stated private 
land.

 

2. Paragraph 2 and 4  are denied.  As held by the Upper Tax 
Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 
129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The 
Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management 
services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the 
Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the 
terms of entry set by the landowner. 

 

3. It is admitted that Defendant is the hirer of [the vehicle] from the 
recorded keeper of the vehicle. 
 

4.  Paragraph 5 is denied the claimant has yet to evidence that 
their contract with the landowner supersedes [] airport 
byelaws .Further it is denied that the Claimant’s signage is 
capable of creating a legally binding contract.

 

5. Paragraph 6 is denied, there are no contractual costs and 
interest cannot be accrued on a speculative charge.

 

6 Not withstanding the above on 2nd August 2022 I made a request 
pursuant to CPR 31.14 for the claimant to disclose its necessary 
evidence in support of its claim. To this date the claimant has 
failed to respond to said request

 

Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to evidence its 
cause of action and contractual costs and what loss it has 
suffered. 

 

The Claimant is further put to strict proof that it has sufficient 
proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary 
authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, 
and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

 

The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied 
that the Claimant is entitled to the recovery or any recovery at 
all.

[southwestram]

So this morning, I received two letters from Northampton County Court - Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track.

As far as VCS goes, I have yet to receive the SAR information regarding charge number two, and I have yet to receive the CPR information with regards to charge number one.

Should I be getting in contact with VCS or should I be reporting their shoddiness to the Court?

At what stage do I prepare my WS and present this to the Court/VCS?

[dx100uk]

you need to read a few pcn claimform threads.

cag is self help too.

 

you now await the N157 from your chosen court.

 

the CPR is only a request they don't HAVe to respond.

 

the SAR has a 30days limit, and non compliance can be taken up with the ICO and if required latterly a court claim, but those are a sep issue from this court claim.

 

once the claim has a hearing date, typically bothside must exchange WS's and everything they intend to rely upon by a 14 days before deadline, that  includes the fleecers and their exhibits - which is the same results as the CRP/SAR returns. if they dont , they will lose.

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Quote

At what stage do I prepare my WS and present this to the Court/VCS?

 

After you have filed your N180 and the court issues your Notice of Allocation with directions (N157)

 

Follow this link :-

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

I'm at East Midlands Airport at the moment.  I travelled here by coach.  Of course this is a different airport from you but Simple Simon has been let loose here too.

 

It struck me that, although there are numerous signs, the majority do not face the oncoming driver.  Most are parallel to the road.  There's no point in there being masses of signs if the driver doesn't see them.

 

They also all state "Private Property" and I'm not at all convinced this is true.

 

Also in among VCS's signs there are normal road signs saying stopping is not allowed, which of course underlines that the RTA and bye-laws apply.

 

If I had less luggage or someone else with me I would go looking for the VCS spy-car to take photos of it just to annoy VCS's bod, out of sheer bloody mindedness, but no can do!

[brassnecked]

Would like to ride an airport access road on an E bike with a gopro and stop to read the sign see what the camera  van bod would do

[southwestram]

Naturally there have been developments since last I updated this saga. I lodged my defence on MCOL, and waited for the contact from the court, asking for a witness statement.

I received a letter or rather, two -( one for each of the Parking Charge Notice), stating that I had not replied to the Directions Questionnaire (which I had never received). I followed their instructions and downloaded it, then sent it back to the email address provided.

Having not heard from them for a week, and bearing in mind they had told me that it was imperative that I respond within 7 days, and also bearing in mind that I had asked them to acknowledge receipt of the DQ - not wanting to lose this by default,

 

I spent the best part of half an hour on the phone to the Northampton Court, only to find out that yes, they had received the email with the DQ attachments, but no, they hadn't yet viewed the email, and probably would not be able to do so for a couple of weeks.

Today I received an email, telling me that an appointment has been organised with the mediation service for a 'confidential telephone mediation appointment'.

These are the requirements;

 

Please read the following statements - mediation is only available if you can answer yes to all 3:

1. I am willing to negotiate on the amount of the claim and I will consider a compromise.
2. I have enough information about the claim to enter into negotiations and do not require any further evidence from the other party before starting mediation.
3. I’m available for the entire time slot on the date of my appointment.
   
   They then go on to state;
    

   This short guide helps you prepare for mediation and explains what happens during your appointment. It’s important that you read this prior to your appointment.

4. You must participate in mediation in good faith, with the intention of reaching an agreement. You must be prepared to listen to points raised by the other party, be willing to compromise and have the authority to agree a decision during mediation.
5. The mediator speaks to each party separately, this is not a conference call.
6. The mediator will cancel the appointment if you do not answer the phone or respond to messages within 10 minutes.
7. The mediator will call from a withheld number. Please ensure withheld numbers are not blocked on your phone.
8. You cannot be driving a vehicle during your appointment. The mediator will end the call if you are driving.
9. The mediator is neutral and will not have seen the evidence or details of the case before the call.
10. If you want someone else to represent you at mediation (like a trusted friend, relative or a solicitor) you must contact the mediation team to authorise their involvement. Your representative must know the facts of the case, understand how far you’re willing to compromise and have full authority to act on your behalf. You’re legally bound to any settlement agreements your representative makes on your behalf.

11. What happens in your mediation appointment

    1. Introduction from the mediator

    The mediator will introduce themselves and check that you have read and understood the mediation process.

    2. Explaining your position

    You will need to explain your claim or defence in concise terms to the mediator. Prepare a brief summary of your opening position - only the key points are necessary.

    3. Negotiating options

    You’re attending mediation with a view to settling your case - this means negotiating to overcome disputed issues. The mediator is neutral and helps each party to explore options and discuss risks. Mediation works when you’re willing to listen to what the other party has to say, negotiate and agree a settlement.

    4. Building agreement

    Settlement can be in many different forms, for example, payment, goods or work. Both parties must agree on the outcome and feel they have reached an acceptable resolution.

    5. Reaching a settlement

    The mediator will read the terms of the settlement and confirm agreement with each party. Once agreed, the settlement is legally binding and cannot be changed. A copy of the mediation settlement is made available to both parties and placed on the court file.

    Confidentiality 

    All mediation appointments are confidential involving the parties or their representatives and the mediator. Any resulting settlement includes a standard confidentiality clause.

    Ending the mediation process

    The mediator can end the mediation if, at any time:

12. either party breaches the terms on which they agreed to mediation
13. there is no prospect that the mediation will end in settlement
14. either party asks to end mediation

15. Find out more in the guide to the Small Claims Mediation Service on GOV.UK.

    Small Claims Mediation Service Contact & Complaint Details

16. Tel:  0300 123 4593 (Our phone lines are open between 09:00 to 17:00 Monday to Friday)
17. Email:  [email protected]
18. If you have any complaints or issues to raise regarding the Mediation Service, please contact us via email at [email protected]  clearly marked ‘Complaint’ in the subject field
    
    Sorry for all the cut and paste, but it all seems to be fairly pertinent.
    
    I have only really selected that the case be referred to the mediators because VCS have already informed the courts of their offer to accept a reduced amount. My negotiating starting point was, is and shall be that I pay zero pounds, and they crawl back under their stone.
    
    I have the videos, showing that there is no visible reflective signage in the places where I stopped. I have video showing that the zone immediately before the place where I stopped is police controlled. I have the video showing that on leaving the A38 and entering the airport property, though the sign is large, reflective and traffic-facing, it does not provide a physical action to take, as an alternative to the acceptance of the contract. i.e, by the time the sign is read and the terms considered, according to VCS themselves, there is "acceptance by conduct", yet the refusal of the contract would leave the motorist no alternative other than to veer back into traffic.
    
    Many of you are familiar with the circumstances of the two charges - the first that I stopped to answer a highly unusual and urgent call from the office, which I believed to be from the original passenger, and the second stop was to avoid running over the second passenger, who was running directly towards the car. I have statements from both the office, and from the doctor - i.e the second passenge that corroborate my reasons for stopping, notwithstanding the lack of legible signage as previously mentioned.
    
    Should I reject mediation, or go through with it? I'm not willing to pay them a penny, and never will do so.

[dx100uk]

Why didnt you just follow what everyone else does with pcn claimform threads, of which there are over 500 already and say no to mediation???

 

then you dont need to waste valuable time researching something pointless and posting the pointless pages of unnecessary stuff you just did??

 

Dx

[brassnecked]

Mediation is not recommended ina parking case, there is nothing to Mediate you either owe them the money or you don't what is there to mediate, they won't accept less than what they asked for on the claim in all probability.

[southwestram]

Ok. Thanks for the advice.

 

Both mediation appointments cancelled.

[dx100uk]

so what happened?

 

dx

 

[southwestram]

I cancelled the mediation and informed them that I wanted it to go to court. I checked yesterday with MCOL and Taunton have the case papers, but I have yet to be informed of a date yet. I've told the court that I'm not available during January, so they will need to get their skates on if they want to do it before New Year.

In another development, I was at the airport on Friday last week. They have improved the signage, which, I believe, stands me in good stead in that; if their signage was adequate at the time, they wouldn't have needed to make improvements to it in order to convey their message. That they have improved it says that improvement was necessary.

I see that they have been featured in the Mail Online, with the indignant reporter focusing his ire on how valuable their houses are. - How typical of the Mail 

[dx100uk]

urm.. that might tally with the fact they have also installed cctv cameras.

 

 

dx

[southwestram]

They still had their little van patrolling up and down the access road. Maybe with the increase in Diesel prices, it's stopped being cost-effective?

[lookinforinfo]

Don't forget the layout of the signs on the day you were issued with the PCNs. They should be the ones that VCS produce in their WS should it get that far.

I expect they will try and use the signage as it is now to strengthen their case. If they do that, use your WS to pint out what they have done.  It is perjury if deliberate but it will also render the rest of their WS questionable in the Judge's eyes.

[southwestram]

It's been a while, and it's time for an update.

We now have a court date for charge number one. They appear to have forgotten entirely about the other, and are now concentrating all their firepower onto the first charge.

They have, as has been suggested, produced some blurry screenshot type photos, supposedly illustrating the location of their signage. The trouble is, I don't recognise any of it. In fact, it appears to be a collection of photos from an entirely different place.

They have also used a photo suggesting that there is a sign placed alongside a zebra crossing. The sign to which they refer states that the area is enforced by police.

They have provided a map of the entrance road to the airport. It alleges that there are a total of 113 signs.

Altogether, it's a pretty convincing case. Until it is examined in real life.

Firstly, the vast majority of the signs, bearing in mind my alleged infraction was at 6pm on a February evening, illegible. They are either placed too high to be able to reflect towards the driver of any standard car, placed at right angles to the road (i.e towards the kerb opposite), resulting in the same problem, or obscured by other signs.

In the area that I am alleged to have stopped, there is one sign which at the time was around nine feet above the ground. Another was obscured by a much larger, much more reflective sign referring to the roundabout ahead, and a third sign, fixed facing the opposite kerb rather than the driver.

Their map suggests that there are five signs along this short stretch of road, but my videos taken shortly after they began their campaign show only the three as stated (unless the other two were even more obscure!)

On a recent visit to the airport, I noticed that there is a new sign, recently placed, at the correct height and position. This, as my videos will show, was not present at the time of the alleged incident. My question therefore will be why that sign appeared. What was the reason for the decision to place a new sign there?

Should I be sending them (or the court) any further communication, or is it down to appearing in the court on the day. Should I, for instance, be allowing them to see the video, to show that they are on a hiding to nothing, or is that the ace up my sleeve?

Any suggestions, as always, are welcome, and gratefully received. Court date is approximately one month away. 
 

Edited February 16, 2023 by southwestram

[dx100uk]

so what date have they got to pay the hearing fee by

and what date must you exchange witness statements by?

 

dx

[southwestram]

I don't have that information. Where would I find that?

Date of hearing is 23rd March

Edited February 16, 2023 by southwestram

[dx100uk]

should be on page 2 of the court order or judgement letter where that date came from?

 

[southwestram]

The letter which most recently arrived is their attempt to settle out of court and threat that a further £220 will be added to costs if it gets to court and I lose.

The most recent documents I received from the court are: General Form of Judgement or Order, dated 15th September 2022, one for each charge, and states that I hadn't submitted a DQ.

I did that and it was received according to MCOL on the 30th Sept 2022.

I know the date of the hearing, but cannot find any paperwork with this information on it. More than frustrating. Who would I ask for a copy of this?

[FTMDave]

But how do you know the hearing is 23 March?

 

Because you will have got a letter form the court with the hearing date, plus the info dx is requesting.

[southwestram]

Yes. I must have it somewhere (or God forbid) I had  it somewhere, and now don't. 

In the event that I can't find it, can I request another copy from the court?

Edited February 16, 2023 by southwestram

[FTMDave]

Phone you local court tomorrow and ask for a PDF copy to be sent by e-mail.

 

If by some freak they won't play ball, ask at least to be told the deadline for exchanging Witness Statements.

 

It's generally 14 days before the hearing, but the odd judge does ask for the WSs yonks before.

Edited February 16, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo