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VCS SpyCar PCN Claimform - Bristol Airport PCN No. 1


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I have now received, in order of receipt

1. The company received a NTK dated 4th Feb 2022 providing details of their allegation of stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited. The time of the alleged offence is 18:17pm on 1st Feb 2022.
The company responded, providing my name and address as the driver of their vehicle


2. VCS then sent me a CHARGE NOTICE (NTD) dated 17th February asking for £100, reduced to £60 if paid early.
I wrote an appeal letter dated 8th March 2022, stamped as received by VCS 9th March 2022, explaining that I stopped to receive an urgent call from the office (the controller would never otherwise phone a driver) I also enclosed a photo of the parking receipt for the drop-off car park (receipt issued 18:14).


3. VCS replied to me on the 24th March 2022, rejecting the appeal. In their rejection, they state that their reflective signage is 'positioned to face oncoming vehicles'. This is not the case, as signage is affixed to the railings facing out onto the road, and not legible until alongside the sign, thereby nullifying the reflective nature of the sign. Note that I was on the feeder road at 18:17pm on a February evening). I believe the signs would be legible only if they were erected onto posts to face oncoming drivers.


4. On the 26th of April 2022, VCS sent me a DEMAND FOR PAYMENT letter. The amount they claim had risen to £170, the additional costs for 'debt collection' and the opportunity to pay a 'reduced amount' had now lapsed.


5. On the 18th May, VCS sent a FINAL DEMAND letter


6. On the 24th of May, VCS sent a LETTER BEFORE CLAIM for £170, plus a warning that court fees of £35 and interest would be added.
I made a Subject Access Request on the 21st June
 

Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law  relating to myself.

Specifically:

- ALL photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
- all data held, all evidence that you will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs outstanding against this VRN,

Any claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims.

If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017. Please forward a copy of this email to your Legal Department [email protected] as a matter of urgency.

Yours faithfully

To which they replied on 7th July
Dear Sir

 

With reference to your request for a copy of your personal data held on our system in-line with GDPR legislation; please find attached a copy of the information held.

 

Photographic evidence and data is held on file in accordance with the Data Protection Act 2018 and is used for the sole purpose of pursuing settlement of a Parking Charge. We comply with the requirements of the Data Protection Act 2018 and the General Data Protection Regulations to uphold your rights to Privacy. Our Privacy Notice gives clear reasons for why, from where, and how we obtain and use your Personal Data, under what circumstances we may retain and share your data with third parties and for how long that data may be retained. 

 

Please refer to: http://www.vehiclecontrolservices.co.uk and follow the links for our Privacy Notices in respect of any questions you may have and your rights in respect of your data.

 

The information sent is contained in a PDF document and/or zip file. It is your responsibility to ensure that you are able to both receive and open the files and to check your spam/junk folders at regular intervals, in case the attachment(s) has been filtered out by your mail server. 

Yours Sincerely

However, the folder on the Zip File relating to this charge is empty. All of the information provided refers only to the other PCN issued.

7 On the 24th June, ELMS legal sent me a NOTIFICATION OF INSTRUCTION in which they state that there is now an unpaid PARKING Charge Notice (PCN)

8. I was issued with a County Court Claim Form on the 27th July from the Northampton County Court
I have replied, using the Acknowledgement of Service form, stating that I intend to defend all of this claim, and on the Defence Form, I have ticked the box stating that I dispute the full amount

 

I would like to go to court, but would prefer the case to be heard much closer to home as I live in the Southwest of England. How would I go about having the case moved here?

 

Which Court have you received the claim from ?

 

MCOL Northampton NN1 ?

Manual Claim CCMCC (Salford) ?

New beta WWW.MONEYCLAIMS.SERVICE.GOV.UK ?

 

If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS)

 

 

Name of the Claimant :

 

Claimants Solicitors: ELMS LEGAL LTD

 

Date of issue – 26 JULY 2022

 

Date for AOS - 13th AUGUST 2022

 

Date to submit Defence - 26th AUGUST 2022

 

What is the claim for – 

1.The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2. The defendant's vehicle XXXXXXX was identified in the Bristol Airport on the 01/02/2022 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely, stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited.

 

3. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

4. The Terms and Conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations.

 

5. The sign was the offer, and the act of entering private land was acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

6.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued and the defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

7.The claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

 

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

 

Amount Claimed 170.00

court fees 35.00

legal rep fees 50.00

Total Amount 265.00


How best to state my defence?



 

 

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At DQ stage you will get to choose the court.  Don't worry.

 

Did you use MCOL to file the AOS?

 

You need to get a CPR request off to Elms  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/409718-cpr-3114-request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-ppc-private-land-parking-court-claim/

 

If you scoll down to  Q2) How should I defend?  at  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/  you will see the generic defence we normally use.  You still have plenty of time to file it though.

 

We could do with some help from you.

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My visit to Bristol Airport went well, and I have decided that my defence will be based on VCS not having installed clear, legible, illuminated or reflective signage along the access road. 

I have a video which shows signs facing the wrong way, positioned so that they do not reflect, hidden behind other signs and/or obscured by plant growth, or placed too high up to be legible.

The video highlights the strong reflectivity of other signage and traffic controlling equipment within the airport. It also, by comparison, shows the signage used by VCS to be non-reflective, even in the few instances where the sign has been placed to face the oncoming traffic.

The particular section where charge number one occurred has no adequate signs. There are however three signs. One is placed high up on a post. Assuming it does have a reflective coating, the reflection would then be directed further upwards, and not back towards the driver. The second sign is obscured behind a much larger, (and much more reflective) general road sign on the approach to the roundabout. It is also tucked back into the bushes, and obscured by branches. The third sign is affixed to some railings, and therefore points out at 90 degrees to the driver. It is also therefore not reflective in any useful fashion, as by the time it becomes legible, would be viewable only through the side window. Of course, rain would make it impossible to read through the side window of a car. Plus of course, drivers are discouraged from turning their heads 90 degrees to the road when approaching a roundabout.

The other point of my defence refers to the sign at the entrance point of the airport. The Contract "Offer"

This sign is big and unmissable. According to VCS, it measures 2m x 1.1m. It is reflective.

Unfortunately, it's in a 30mph zone.

Assuming that the lettering used on the sign is the same size as that of a car number plate, it must be readable by a driver from a distance of 75 feet.

It also contains rather a lot of information. 

1. No Stopping
2. £100 Charge if you stop
3. Cameras are used to enforce compliance
4. Details of owner may be sought from DVLA
5. You are entering Private Property
6. Vehicle Control Systems Limited operate this site

You are expected to read, understand, analyse, process and agree to a binding contract with VCS, based on the information on that sign. (As well as continuing to drive your car without mounting the pavement or otherwise being distracted.)

At 30mph, from a distance of 75 feet, from the point at which time the sign becomes legible, you will be travelling at 44 feet per second. Therefore, you need to enter into a contract with VCS within 1.7 seconds.

The Private Parking firms have been involved since 2019 in producing, in consultation with Government, a Code of Practice, instigated due to their shady practices, described as 'designed to extort' by  Minister Neil O’Brien, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Levelling Up, the Union and Constitution.

Although the CoP is currently withdrawn while further negotiations are carried out regarding fees and charges, there is no suggestion that the acceptable levels of conduct are under review.

Private Parking firms are expected to

"include things such as clear signage, surface markings and compulsory grace periods. The Code also bans the use of aggressive and pseudo-legal language that we’ve all seen on those yellow parking slips doctored to look like official Penalty Charge Notices. And there will be no wriggle-room for rogue companies who continue to flout the rules. If they fail to follow this Code, they will effectively be banned from issuing parking charges indefinitely."

 

Expecting a driver to be able to enter into a binding contract within 1.7 seconds can surely not form part of that Code of Practice, and no legitimate company would try to impose such a condition.

It should also be remembered that the Contract is not optional. In order to access Bristol Airport, it is compulsory to enter into the contract with VCS.

They do not explain which areas are subject to the No Stopping requirement. It cannot possibly mean No Stopping anywhere on the Private Property, or we would face the prospect of hundreds of people hurling themselves from moving vehicles, together with their suitcases. Of course, I'm being facetious, but unless there is an imposition of a blanket No Stopping zone, it should state where the No Stopping Zone begins and ends. In short, it needs to state that this applies only to the access road. The various car parks, where stopping is permitted have separate rules and requirements, and that needs to be made clear.

The sign also states that vehicle details may be sought from DVLA, but it doesn't state under which circumstances, and that would be a vital consideration before a contract could be accepted and entered into

The Code of Practice also points out the sketchy practice of making a Parking Charge 'doctored to look like official Penalty Charge Notices.', and yet the icon used on the main entrance sign is exactly that.

VCS display their true colours in their actions at Bristol Airport, chasing round after drivers on the access roads, waiting for a moment of confusion, or a stop under mitigating circumstances, and then issuing a hugely overpriced invoice - its appearance mimicking a Penalty Charge Notice, in the hope that the motorist will be scared by their threat of Court Action and CCJs into paying their  - in the words of the Minister - extortionate fees. Plus their illegal add-ons for 'debt collection costs'. Illegal because they never formed a part of the Contract

In the Ministerial Foreword, it clearly states that rogue companies that continue to flout the rules, and fail to comply with the Code of Practice will be prevented from carrying out their business. Clearly, until the Code of Practice comes out of its current hiatus, VCS are continuing to extort money from the motorist.

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Great work.  Well done.

 

In his WS Simon will say the signs are reflective and the best in the industry.  It will help you to show (a) you couldn't see the damn things and (b) that Simon is telling porkies about the signs so the rest of the WS cannot be taken seriously.

 

On 01/08/2022 at 16:47, southwestram said:

However, the folder on the Zip File relating to this charge is empty. All of the information provided refers only to the other PCN issued.

 

Two things.

 

VCS have a statutory duty to comply with SARs.  If they don't, you can sue them!

 

I suppose a good strategy would be to tell them you don't believe they have complied with the SAR without going into detail, then if they again don't comply Letter of Claim and then court.

 

Have  a serious think about whether you want to go down this road though.  About the worst thing you can do in a legal dispute is threaten action which you then don't take, from then on you're just seen as a paper tiger.  Only make the threat if you really are prepared to sue them.

 

Secondly, all this talk of ZIP files makes me think you're communicating by e-mail with Simon.  If you do this, at Witness Statement stage VCS will file a pack of lies at one minute to the court deadline giving you no opportunity to respond.  We've seen these shenanigans before.

 

We could do with some help from you.

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I think the video I shot last night will show the judge that their claim of reflective, prominent signage is pure flannel.

I'll leave the SAR up my sleeve. I don't think it's as strong as the evidence I can show them.

I'm also going to focus on the fact that I stopped for as little as ten seconds while I put my phone into the hands-free cradle and answered the call, as is shown by the timing of the two charges - the first at 18:17, followed by another one minute later, during which time I had set off, negotiated the roundabout and arrived at the entrance to the drop off point, reciving the second PCN at 18:18

The second charge, backed by a pair of Witness statements is much less of a worry.

I assume I will be allowed to show the judge the video of my trip last night?

The only email I've sent/received has been to their Data Protection Officer when I made the SAR. Every other correnspondence has been by mail, not by email

One would assume that a DPO would be aware of the danger of sharing my email address without permission?

 

 

I was looking on Google Maps/Streetview, and some of the images date back to 2016/2019/2021.

Does anyone recall when VCS were given the rights to operate across the entirity of the access road? Because there are very few 'repeater' signs on the way to the short-stay car park - certainly not the 80 that they currently claim.

Some of the signs (back then) read 'Police Monitored', when placed near to the pedestrian crossings, and refer to loading/unloading. They aren't VCS signs.

My thoughts are that perhaps their agreement/ Planning permission might not have been updated when their area increased. Is there any information on the Planning Permission at Bristol Airport from previous cases that anyone can recall seeing?

 

Bristol Airport Crossing Signs July 2019 Were Police Enforced.pdf

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The fist case we have for VCS at that airport was in December 2019.

 

The contract they produce in their WSs is from October 2019.

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Don't think simple will be too happy when he views that video, as it will have to be part of any WS as an exhibit.  Might make him cut and run.

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I think you're mixing two things up.

 

Prior to October 2019 VCS had no involvement at the airport.  Then in that month they signed a contract with the airport to "manage" the no-stopping area which still continues now.

 

They should have then approached the local council for planning permission to erect their signs, an easy permission to obtain, but as that would have delayed their fleecing, and they have complete contempt for the law, they never did so.  Not obtaining planning permission is a crime, so you can use this against them.  That's why you asked to see proof of planning permission in your CPR request - you know full well they don't have PP so they can't respond.

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes, I think I've got a little confused by the patchwork of photos used on Google Maps Streetview, with the entry to the airport - the big sign - being from November 21, and the internal Police signs being from July 19.

Clearly they, as you said, took over patrolling the entire airport all at once.

I'm going back to the airport, this time on foot (no, I'm not going to walk there)

I want to carry out a complete survey of the signage. I think it would be useful for myself and others.

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So as instructed, I filled out the Acknowledgement of Service, and sent off to ELMS Legal, asking for their bundle of information upon which they plan to pursue their claim.

Today, a large envelope arrived, containing everything pertaining to Charge number two, but nothing relating to Charge number one.

I'm assuming that it may arrive under separate cover, perhaps tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I should be making an effort to send off my defence as the date on the County Court papers is 26th July.

I would like to state my defence without necessarily giving all the details of how I plan to defend the case - which woulld only give them time to come up with some obscure case reference from 90 years ago, or make some spurious excuse for them pursuing me.

How can I word it in a way that will be acceptable to the court, yet still keeping my cards up my sleeve, so to speak?

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eH?

why are you send AOS to a claimants solicitors?
who said do that???

 

you mean you did AOS on mcol

and sent a CPR to elms...

 

if you go back to the sticky that asked you to fillout those questions and SCROLL DOWN you'll see defences to file that a re bland, generica nd state nowt about specifics of your situation.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes. AOS to the gov.uk site, and then posted the letters - one for each charge - to ELMS

 

With regards to my defence, I want to make the following points;

1) That the photo at the entrance to the airport is vague as it demands No Stopping, but does not state where the No Stopping requirement will be enforced. Clearly, it's impractical and illogical to suggest that there exists a No Stopping requirement throughout the entire airport. Otherwise, how could passengers alight from vehicles?

It is left therefore to the driver to make an assumption that the rule cannot apply in all areas of the airport. Consequently it should state on the entrance sign that there is No Stopping on the access road, or that there is No Stopping in the areas covered by repeater signs.

There are lots of such signs on the approach to the terminal, plus on roundabouts, but very few in other areas, if at all. If the driver is allowed to assume that No Stopping does not cover the entire airport, then they should be allowed to assume that where no signage is present, the rule does not apply.

 

2) The [Code of Practice]/[Road Traffice Act]/[Code of Practice] - not sure to which they refer - states that signs need to be facing the driver at an appropriate height, reflective, and legible. The signs at the airport in many cases are neither driver-facing, at an approporiate level, reflective (in a useful manner) or legible. Many are even obscured by other signs, or by vegetation. This unfairly impacts on a driver, who may be led to believe that they are in a zone not covered by the No Stopping rule.

3) The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.  The proper claimant is the landowner" because my case is about stopping at a bus stop/stand rather than a car park.

4) The addition of £70 costs was not made clear at the time of the alleged contract being agreed. It is therefore illegal to attempt to impose further costs at any stage afterwards.

As an aside, and a question to the legal boffins on here, what is the difference between the VCS-claimed airport clearway and an urban clearway?

VCS stated in their rejection of my appeal letter right at the beginning of this palaver thusly;
 

Quote

There are over 80 high profile signs advising drivers not to stop and warning that if a driver does stop, a charge of £100 is payable. The signs exceed recognised industry standards, with some as large as 2m x 1.1m (6ft 6in by 3ft 7in) which clearly state "No Stopping" alongside the nationally recognised Highway Code symbol for a Clearway (No Stopping) Furthermore, the signage on the approach road is reflective and positioned to face oncoming vehicles and the text size used is relative to the average approach speed of a vehicle in relation to the speed limit in force at that location.


If VCS are relying on a Highway Code symbol for a Clearway (No Stopping) and also mention Speed Limits, are they therefore forfeiting their claim that this land is private, and entrance subject to a contract? As I understand it, the Highway Code does not apply to private land, and nor would a speed limit. That there exists a clearway, in accordance with, as they appear to be claiming, The Highway Code, and a speed limit in place, in accordance with the Road Traffic Act, would appear that they are admitting that it isn't in fact, private property?

Because if so, -if the Road Traffic Act applies, the reading on https://theorytest.org.uk/when-may-you-stop-on-an-urban-clearway/ would be very interesting, as it states that it is permitted to stop on an urban clearway to pick up passengers.

 

Quote

Some roads, usually in towns and cities, are designated as urban clearways. A road that has been designated as an urban clearway has designated hours. During these hours vehicles are prevented from stopping in most circumstances. The designated hours will be clearly signposted and will usually be around ‘rush hour’ times. Typically, this is between 7:00-9:30 and 15:00-18:00 when commuter traffic is high. This is to ensure the free flow of commuter traffic whilst allowing for parking on the road during lower periods of demand. However, even during the hours an urban clearway is in operation, you are permitted to set down or pick up passengers if you do not cause an obstruction and do so only for the time that is reasonable.


Your thoughts please?

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no you dont give away any clues

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Any roads on the airport that have the RTA standard 30 MPH signs means that the land is not relevant land- regardless of  Bye Laws.

 

Could you get a photocopy of the NTK -the first PCN that was sent to your taxi company.Please do not block out the times and dates or photographs.

I would think that you are renting your taxi from the company and so would have had to sign that you were responsible for PCNs etc exactly the same as if you were hiring a car for the purposes of PoFA

I think they should have sent you a notice to Hirer not a Notice to Driver. You should have been given 21 days to pay rather than the 28  days that they asked you for.

Check PoFA 2012 Schedule 4  S13 and S14. Also in those two sections PoFA only seem interested in parking, not stopping, and only in relation to relevant land which the airport is not. So perhaps some of the site members  could look and see if VCS have sent the wrong PCN and so they have no case.

 

Also as their no stopping signs only say without saying anything about being able to charge admin fees etc. then all they can charge is £100.

Obviously those points would not be used until you are at the Witness Statement stage when it would be too late for VCS to alter their case.

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That's cleared it up. There are 20mph signs and road markings throughout the airport on the access road, which, as you state, means that it is covered under the RTA. 

Would I be right in assuming that VCS would have no right to impose a Parking Charge for stopping in a clearway which is covered by the RTA?

Would'nt such an offence only be enforceable by the Police?

Because that would invalidate any Parking Charge issued for a breach of the No Stopping claim.

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They cannot create a Chargeable parking Incident over a stop on a road covered by Road Traffic Act, its not Relevant land.

We could do with some help from you.

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That seems so simple. I can't understand that if such a trump card exists, why people go to so much trouble to construct such detailed defences of twenty or thirty paragraphs.

In short, the land, whether privately owned or not, is controlled under the RTA because the public have access (at least they do with regard to the main access road through the airport).

Therefore, the RTA can only be enforced by a Police Authority, and not by a Private Parking Company.

And following that, VCS have no right to charge for stopping on RTA-covered land, whether it be privately owned or not.

So my defence should be that? VCS don't have the right to impose a contract on the access road. They don't have the right of surveillance. They don't have the right to obtain personal details such as my identity and address from DVLA. They don't have the right to issue an invoice for stopping on land over which they don't have jurisdiction.

Why does this seem too good to be true? 🙂🙃🙂

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Have a look again at LFI's post#20

We could do with some help from you.

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The problems are that we do not know where your car was stopped.   Was it on an RTA road or an airport road covered by Byelaws. If the latter, VCS are a devious bunch who produce cases where byelaws may be arbitrary. and Judges fall for it. 

 

So you need several really good defence points to ensure that the Judge you get will find at least one of your arguments and throw the VCS case out. If you rely on just one strong point and the Judge doesn't buy it and/or VCS have found a way of deflecting the reality of the situation, VCS could win instead of losing. Hence the twenty or thirty paragraphs as we do not know which Judge we will get so we cover as many eventualities as we can.

 

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LFI means witness statement...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to VCS SpyCar PCN Claimform - Bristol Airport PCN No. 1

Ok. So from what you know of this charge, and the first one (for which paperwork may well still arrive in the near future), what are the strongest points that I could argue, (without over-egging the pudding), and how can I word them in my defence so as to not show my hand, but still be able to make my case at the WS stage?

The claim for the first event is that I stopped my taxi on the access road. (The access road runs for around half a mile, past the terminal building, and eventually to the drop-off car park) Charge number one was from photos taken just after I had exited the drop-off car park, and was on the acess road which leads back to the A38.

The claim for the second event is that having received the phone call from the taxi office, instructing me to return to pick up the passengers, I negotiated a roundabout amd went to the car park entrance, only to be met by the passenger, running down the entrance lane. I was forced to divert away from the entrance and stopped, otherwise I would have run into them. His fellow passengers then opened the boot of my  taxi and threw in their luggage. The three then got into the back seat and we drove away, doing a U-turn to head back towards the A38 once again.

 

I made a short video, highlighting the VCS signage for Charge number one.
 

 

 

Here is the video for the second charge.

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18 hours ago, southwestram said:

I would like to state my defence without necessarily giving all the details of how I plan to defend the case - which woulld only give them time to come up with some obscure case reference from 90 years ago, or make some spurious excuse for them pursuing me.

Nail.  Hit.  On.  Head.

 

Go to  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/

 

Scroll down to  Q2) How should I defend?

 

There you will find your bland, generic defence.

 

You're doing amazing research, well done, but the evidence you're gathering will go in your Witness Statement, to be filed at the court much later on, a fortnight before the court case.

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Those video's are excellent   now not sure what other Site Team think but might be better to hide them from general view especially if you are going to use them in court.  I will hide them for now until other Site team can consider whether they should be on view.

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Understand and agree that the videos should be hidden at this stage. There will be another - much more detailed - video for any people to use in the future. When its done, I'll post a link. It would be good to pool our time and resources, and drive VCS away from these places where they predate.

On another note - As I understand it, I need to submit my generic defence form by posting it, and cannot send electronically (which I would prefer to do). Is this correct? Or could it be sent online?

***Many thanks for the help received so far. I'm far less intelligent than I often imagine, and I can see that most of this is far beyond my capabilities and level of understanding ***

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