NCP/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - appealed refused- Gatwick Airport dropoff zone **CLAIM DISCONTINUED**

[westlondonmum]

Hello, I haven't posted in this forum before so am following the instructions in the COURT CLAIMS sticky note. Any help as to my defence would be very much appreciated!

Questions answered below:

• Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton

Name of the Claimant ? National Car Parks (EUK) Limited 

Date of issue –  20 December 2022

Date of AOS = 07.01.23

date to submit defence = by 4pm on 20.01.23 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

Particulars of Claim:

1.The Claimant's (C) Claim is for the sum of £111 in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) payable by the Defendant (D) to C.

2.On 29/05/2021, the driver of a vehicle, registration XXXXXXX, breached C's terms and conditions of parking at Gatwick Airport North Terminal Drop Off RH60NP, which is managed and operated by C.

3. The PCN was issued for: No Payment. the terms and conditions were displayed on signage in situ and, D, as the driver and/or the registered keeper of the vehicle is liable to pay the PCN.

4.The claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 being an amount of £11 (calculated at a rate of 8% p.a. at a daily rate of £0.02 from 29/05/2021 to 19/12/2022). C also claims £60 debt recovery costs as set out in the terms and conditions and in C's ATA AoS Code of Practice. 

 

MY STORY

I was dropping off my partner at Gatwick Airport that afternoon with our new daughter who was 10 months at the time.

I logged online to make the payment and got through to the payment page, however my daughter began crying so I was distracted and didn't check to see whether the payment actually went through.

I thought nothing of it until after the second COVID lockdown (where we were unable to travel back to the UK from Switzerland for 3 months).

When on our return we received a letter from BW Legal regarding a debt owed for a PCN issued.

I checked back through all our mail and confirmed we had received nothing from NCP regarding any alleged contravention. 

I had to email BW Legal to send me the documentation

I've noted this is a similar situation to another post on this forum: 

I tried to contact NCP to appeal this PCN, however they said that since the case had already been passed to BW legal their hands were tied. I then tried to appeal to POPLA, however I needed a reference number from NCP, who wouldn't provide me with one. 

When I received the letter of claim from BW Legal I emailed requesting that they drop the case, but I obviously was too polite as on 20 December I received a Claims form from the County Court. 

Gatwick Airport PCN_red_compressed.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG. 

 

Well done on getting the right information to us.

 

Have you been on MCOL to acknowledge service of the claim?

 

Best, HB

[dx100uk]

cn you type out the particulars of claim please.

 

good job you never appealed!!  never appeal a speculative invoice.

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

 

dx

 

 

 

[westlondonmum]

Yes I've already acknowledged service of the claim so I believe I have until 20 Jan to file a defence?  Ideally I'd like the claim dropped before then...but after the experience with BW and NCP this is looking more and more unlikely!

 

@dx100uk will do the CPR request.

 

Considering one or all of:

- writing to MP

- alerting the media 

- complaining to Gatwick Airport owners (last time I checked it was another airport owning Gatwick - VINCI airports - should I be emailing them?)

- complaining again to NCP and threatening to counterclaim (I recall seeing something posted re this on another thread)

[honeybee13]

Whatever you saw here about counterclaiming against NCP, I hope it said not to.

 

Please slow down a bit with trying to drop them in it because you could end up outing yourself as driver and this will make your life more difficult. We'll tell you if any of these might be an option.

 

HB

[westlondonmum]

Honeybee13 unfortunately I have already outed myself as the driver!! It was before I thought to check online, and upon receiving the notice from BW I immediately emailed them trying to reason with them .(what an idiot I was).

[honeybee13]

It's OK, I doubt if you've hurt your defence too much.

 

 

Let the guys start pulling their paperwork apart but perhaps you could hold off appealing, etc for now please?

 

HB

[westlondonmum]

 

[dx100uk]

you've found and read one thread

 

get reading a good few 10's of them

then you'll understand why your route/thoughts dont work.

 

another thing you need to do is protect yourself from fake docs/lies etc, in emails from them 1 min before an important court dealing 

send them ONE more email stating email is not to be used for any matter concerning our mutual court claim.

 

dx

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

3 hours ago, westlondonmum said:

Considering one or all of:

- writing to MP

- alerting the media 

- complaining to Gatwick Airport owners (last time I checked it was another airport owning Gatwick - VINCI airports - should I be emailing them?)

- complaining again to NCP and threatening to counterclaim (I recall seeing something posted re this on another thread)

 

 

all a complete waste of time.

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Well done on all the reading up you've done.  We wish everyone who comes here would do the same!

 

Can you please post up exactly what you wrote to BW Legal?  We need to see how much information you've given away (which unfortunately they will be very good at using against you).

 

When you say you got documentation from BW Legal, did that include the original PCN from the fleecers?  If so, we need to see it.

[westlondonmum]

Here is everything BW have sent, plus the email sent to BW unfortunately outing myself as driver. 

 

 

Email_BW.pdf PCN notices_compressed.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Guys,

There is a grace period actually mentioned on the BWL letter, which they say was exceeded.

The timings from entry to exit is a few seconds short of 10 minutes.

Looks like they've well and truly shot themselves in the foot?

[dx100uk]

agreed.

 

dx

[FTMDave]

First the bad bit.  Your e-mail to BW Legal is about as bad as it could be as not only have you outed yourself as the driver but you told them all the stuff about being distracted by your daughter.  I'd hoped you hadn't and you could have suggested their rubbish technology was to blame (as in the other case you found).

 

However, live and learn and all that.  Every single one of us here has made mistakes in legal disputes.

 

All is not lost.

 

So who exactly are they suing?  They sent the original threats to your partner but you informed them you were the driver.  Are they suing you or your partner?

[FTMDave]

@Nicky Boy@dx100ukI think it's likely that BW Legal are mentioning their own, made-up grace period.  From other cases IIRC it's a minute or something equally as ludicrous.

[Nicky Boy]

FTMDave,

I've looked up the COP, it states a minimum of 5 minutes....

[FTMDave]

Found it - eventually!  Post 16 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/448986-gatwick-drop-off-£5-charge-for-3-minutes-what-if-i-dont-accept-the-terms/

 

NCP have their own, unilateral, made up grace period of one minute, only for the drop-off zone, this is what they will have been referring to.

[lookinforinfo]

It is a great shame  that you admitted you were the driver though perfectly understandable why you did it.  HAlthough ad you not done so your husband would have been let off scot free because he was not the driver and as there Byelaws at the Airport, ir is classed as not relevant land. That means that only the driver is liable for any alleged breach and because where the land is not relevant land, liability cannot be transferred to the keeper if the driver has not been identified.

 

Although BWLegal mentioned a grace period which is usually ten minutes they know less about the law relating to parking than my dog that died 20 years ago. I think they meant the Consideration period which is only 5 minutes-this is to give motorists time to read and digest the Terms and Conditions of what parking is being offered. If you do not agree with.the Terms you can leave within five minutes without having to pay.

 

A couple of things are still unclear to me plus it might help your case if we can get clarification on the correspondence between you, your husband and BWLegal and  NCP.

 

When did you receive the first  letter from either BW or NCP. When you received a copy of the original PCN was the address on the ticket your current address.

You responded to a letter of the 12th November which I assume was the first time either of you had communicated with either bunch. Or had your husband already contacted them. And did he reply to the request made by BWLegal to provide them with his details please?

Also I gather that you also went to Switzerland at a later date than your husband.

 

 

[westlondonmum]

@lookinforinfoyes, i quickly realised I'd really shot myself in the foot about 5 minutes after I decided to have a look online...

 

12 November 2021 was the first letter we received. This was a letter from BW Legal which unfortunately I have been unable to locate the hard copy. 

 

I didn't leave the UK until 19th June, however no mail arrived until then from NCP, and on receiving the letter from BW Legal, I double-checked through all the letters we received and confirmed that received neither the Notice to Keeper, nor the Final Reminder or the original PCN had been delivered while we were gone. We returned in August, and obviously if we had seen the PCN then it wouldn't have slipped my mind! Interestingly, BW did not actually attach the original PCN to their pack of evidence - only NTK and Final Reminder....

 

Yes that's right. Yes, my partner left earlier than me. I drove through France on 19th June to meet him there with my daughter and dog in the back, and 5 months pregnant with my son!

 

My partner did reply to BW Legal's request, however he mailed a hard copy of the letter as it was hand written. I'll ask him if he has a copy scanned. 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Can you please clarify this?

 

10 hours ago, FTMDave said:

So who exactly are they suing?  They sent the original threats to your partner but you informed them you were the driver.  Are they suing you or your partner?

 

[westlondonmum]

@FTMDave They appear to still be suing my partner. Despite me telling them I was the driver back in March 2022, all letters have continued to be addressed to him... 

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

We'll wait for the experts to comment, but that sounds like good news.

 

As far as I'm aware, if NCP have been informed who the driver was, they can't legally chase the keeper for anything.

 

Also, because they didn't follow up with a notice to driver in the prescribed time frame, they can't change their minds and start chasing you.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[brassnecked]

Well if they know who the driver is, and are suing the Keeper they are up the creek with the case.

[lookinforinfo]

Yes I noticed that too which is why i asked if her husband had responded to their request to give them his details. Westlondon mum didn't answer that question which might have clarified the position.

 

I also asked if the address on the original NTK had been their current address or a previous one since had it been a previous address it would have been the reason the early communications didn't arrive.

 

however if the address was correct there may be a more sinister reason for non delivery.

 

It would be a great help if those two questions could be cleared up.

Also not to beat yourself up about the driver declaration thing as so many people do it when appealing .