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NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***


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BW Legal are bottom of the barrel solicitors who work with the crooked private parking companies.

 

Ignore all this rubbish about NCP having given up the case.  This is standard bilge intended to scare you into thinking things have somehow escalated a level.  It's nonsense legally, were there a court case it would be NCP - the creditor - who would sue you.

 

You have - we hope - told them point blank you're not paying after their Letter of Claim.  That's put up or shut up.  Just ignore them now, yours is not the next move. 

 

By all means send you SAR to NCP.  Stick in some I.D. like a Council Tax bill otherwise they will use lack of I.D. as a delaying tactic.

We could do with some help from you.

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Interesting letter from BWLegal that they know about the new  government Code but don't seem to think it is relevant as it is not yet in force.

The Private Parking CoP was published back in February this year.

 

There will be wholesale changes such as a new form of PCN that does not look like the Council Penalty Charge Notices, different colours from them too and they will have to find a new name for their PCNs that do not contain the words Parking Charge Notice. That should exercise the pea brains for some time. I suspect that is why the government has given them a year to work it out. My guess is the Government have overestimated the ability of the numb nuts to do all that in just one year.

 

However there are other things that the Government expect the parking companies to  implement more quickly. Here I quote from the  Minister in charge of bringing out the new CoP   "The publication of this Code therefore marks the start of an adjustment period in which parking companies will be expected to follow as many of these new rules as possible. The Code will then come into full force before 2024, when the single appeals service is expected to be in operation."

 

One would think that it might be an idea for the crooks to start to put their house in order and begin to introduce some of the measures at least that they will have to follow. Just in case the chuckleheads didn't get the message above here is another excerpt from the preamble about the new CoP.

"There will be an implementation period to allow parking operators to align with the requirements of the Code before it comes into effect. Operators will be expected to fully adhere to the new Code by the end of 2023, by which time we expect the new single appeals service to be operational."

And still the rent a thug thinks the new act is irrelevant. I wonder if the SRA believe that? A complaint to them about DCBLs attitude to the Law could be interesting. As a legal entity [no sniggering at the back] DCBL are supposed to put their clients straight in matters of Law.

 

As a Government Minister has described the over charging going on in motoring cases is a "rip off" one would hardly describe that as irrelevant.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Guys,

 

I am afraid to say I received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton (issue date 28th July).

 

I will now have to prepare and present my defence. Any guidance from here will be much appreciated. I am at work today & away tomorrow. But will aim to prepare a bullet point defence on Tuesday afternoon to work from. Will I need to supply evidence at this stage, or just the basics of my defence?

 

Any pointers on what I need to do before then will be welcomed. If you look through this thread I feel I have strong evidence that the NCP systems were not working and despite my attempts to pay their system failed. 

 

 

 

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If you follow this sticky it will help to ground exactly where to challenge them

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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You obviously need to get into gear, but you do have some time.  Tuesday is fine.  You will need to

   - acknowledge service with the court

   - send off a CPR request

   - fill in the sticky BN posted.

 

Preparing a Witness Statement will be months away.

 

The best way to understand the legal process is simply to read other threads with "claimform" in the title.

 

Did you SAR NCP as suggested in post 73?

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi FTM Dave,

 

I am just about to do the acknowledgement of service online to buy me the extra time.

 

I did not complete a SAR NCP as I got a bit confused by what I was actually meant to write to them about. I will look at it again today and get that all off this afternoon.

 

I did get supplied with a load of evidence documents from BW Legal/NCP with their Letter of Claim. How much more info I am looking for from them.

 

Sticky on it's way.

 

 

 

I have filled in the Sticky below and will continue to read the related threads now

 

Which Court have you received the claim from ?

CCBC, 4th Floor St Katherine's House, 21-27 St Katherine's St., Northampton, NN1 2LH

 

Name of the Claimant : NCP Ltd., Saffron Court, 14B St Cross Street, London, EC1N 8XA

 

Claimants Solicitors: BW Legal, Enterprise House, 1 Apex View, Leeds, LS11 9BH

 

Date of issue – 28 July 2022

 

Date for AOS - Monday 15th August 2022

 

Date to submit Defence - Sunday 29th August 2022 (33days from and including the 28th July)

 

What is the claim for 

 

1. The Claimant's (C) Claim is for the sum of £105.74 in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) payable by the Defendant (D) to C.

 

2.On the 14/10/2021, the driver of a vehicle, registration ******, breached C's terms and conditions of parking at Gatwick Airport North Terminal Drop Off RH60NP which is managed and operated by C.

 

3.The PCN was issued for : No Payment. The terms and conditions were displayed on signage in situ and, D, as the driver and/or the registered keeper of the vehicle is liable to pay the PCN.

 

4. The claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 being an amount of £5.74 (calculated at a rate of 8%n p.a at a daily of £0.02 from 14/10/2021 to 27/07/2022). C also claims £60.00 debt recovery costs as set out in the terms and conditions and in C's ATA AoS Code of Practice.

 

What is the value of the claim? £250.74

 

Amount Claimed: £165.74

court fees: £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount £250.74

 

Plse find attached to this post the form minus any of my personal details 

 

NCPN1ClaimForm28-07-22.pdf

 

Hi Guys,

 

I have now drafted a CPR letter to BW Legal. Is there anything further that you think I should add to it, having seen the Particulars of Claim on the N1 form?

 

I will not upload this letter as it has been noted that it should not be shared on threads, but I have edited as instructed and inputted the particular details of the claimant's etc and defendant's details.

 

I will await your approval to send the basic template once you have had a chance to look over the above info I have supplied.

 

FTMDave, 

 

When do I seek to obtain the unreasonable costs order?

 

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Just send cpr no need for any adaptation.

Not sure where you get this unreasonable costs stuff from?

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks Dx. I will do.

 

Is it still worth me requesting SAR at this stage. I never did it before. I was a little confused on what I was asking for exactly.

 

If it's still worth it, I will try and get to grips with it tonight and get that all off as well.

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Not really, they must disclose everything in their ws.

Would have been nice but if you weren't capable of clicking sar, adding 2 addresses, then so bit it.

 

Your defence is the generic bland one further down in the above sticky you already  filled out.

 

DX

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The reason I suggested the SAR was because you were concerned that they might have taken notes during your phone call, and you may have outed yourself as the driver.  It was to find out one way or the other.

 

Forget about unreasonable costs for now, that's for the very end if they continue with the court case and if you win.

We could do with some help from you.

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OK FTMDave. I will start that now. just to have it on file for court.

 

But as dx100 has said it will all come out the witness statements from them anyway now.

 

Ok. I have sent the CPR to BW Legal.

 

I have sent off a SAR with an bank letter for ID to NCP anyway, as I quite like the idea of them having to do some admin! As I am now having to do a lot more myself. 😂 I also have 2 other PCNs running so any further info that arrives, even if too late for my defence submission on this one it could prove handy.

 

Is there any reason why I shouldn't send a SAR to BW Legal just to make them do something extra?

 

Thanks guys for the help today. I haven't had a chance to bullet point my defence yet. I will do so, and would appreciate what is the stronger elements in it. Is there not a good reason to simply focus on the fact that the PCN is not POFA compatible and therefore as the registered keeper they have no right to pursue me... End of?

 

I can then add in the more generic defence after this and the witness statements of my family watching me make the payment therefore putting forward the case that their APNR and processing systems were not operating up to a reasonable standard.

 

What in your opinion is the strongest position to take?

 

 

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Good move in making NCP work!  It will sort out the phone call question once and for all.

 

BW Legal will only have a tiny amount of information on you which will have come from NCP anyway, so it'd be pointless SARing them.  If however you would enjoy wasting their time - go for it!

 

At this stage just a generic short defence which doesn't play all your cards is fine.

 

A fortnight before the hearing you will have an opportunity to file a detailed Witness Statement demolishing the fleecers' case.

Edited by FTMDave
Typos

We could do with some help from you.

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And for the benefit of anyone else who is reading this thread and looking at submitting a SAR using the template on the sticky. You need to click on the expand for the template to appear.

 

The confusion I was getting, was all this detailed info about SAR and GDPR but no template appeared to be present on the sticky. Leaving me a little lost as to what I was meant to write or request. I finally spotted the there was an 'expand' to be clicked on the relevant post on the sticky. And there it is! It took me 4 attempts to spot it! 🤪

 

As Dx100 points out it's just a question of putting 2 addresses a P,CN Number for ref, some ID verification to prove name and address (council tax bill or bank statement without any unnecessary details showing) and if you want specific dates.

 

 

 

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ive sorted that expand issue no need for it to be there at all.

i would not use bank statements ever

CTAX bill

or Util Bill

 

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Use ctax ...doesn't hurt OH is on though you can block her out.

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Guys,

 

I have just returned home from holiday to this response letter to my CPR request from BW Legal.

 

While they have included the initial NTK and the Final Reminder, they have failed to include all the other letters/reminders etc that were sent and any evidence of signage (which they claim to have included)

 

They appear to be refusing to supply their agreement with Gatwick Airport as it's 'commercially sensitive' and that the planning permission is irrelevant to the case.

 

Could you please have a look at this letter and let me know if it plays into our hands?

 

I am about to submit the basic defence supplied on the claim sticky with the Claims Court online. We can flesh this out later, should I be required to submit a full witness statement. 

 

See attached file

 

 

BWLegalCPRResponseAug2022.pdf

 

FYI 

 

I have submitted my defence as the generic one supplied on the relevant thread, as supplied above.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits?

Well done on filing the defence.

 

Their letter is par for the course.

 

However, in a small way it will help.  Two arguments we almost always include in WSs are locus standi and planning permission.  In your WS you will be able to add that, although they replied to a CPR request, they refused to show their contract with the landowner and you believe they do not have locus standi, and they refused to provide proof of planning permission and you believe their signs are illegal and no contract can be performed where illegality is concerned.

 

Actually, thinking about it, it's worth you checking with the local council yourself re PP.  Most councils have a portal where you can look at PP.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks FTMDave.

 

I will look into PP given by Crawley Council. And report back.

 

Are the rules different for airports, though?

 

I just searched on Crawley Planning Register where it claims:

 

Our online register allows you to check the progress and view a list of current and determined planning applications or find details of enforcement notices that have been served since 2002.

 

The online register contains details of planning applications received since 2004 including drawings and other material submitted to the local authority along with officer reports and decisions which are available to download.

 

I used the following keyword search:

 

National Car Parks Signage Gatwick Airport North Terminal Drop Off and Pick Up Zone

 

Signage Gatwick Airport North Terminal Drop Off and Pick Up Zone

 

Drop Off Charge Signage Gatwick Airport North Terminal Drop Off and Pick Up Zone

 

It came back as 'no results'

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You don't mess about, do you?!

 

Great work.  All good ammo to go in the WS later.

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We could do with some help from you.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Guys,

 

I have received letter before claims for both the other NCP PCNs received in addition to the one we have been primarily dealing with here.

 

I have responded with my own 'snotty' letter and have now received a response from the first of these letters. Can I post the response up here or should I start a new thread for each 'PCN'

 

I am keen to get your opinions on this 

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Best to start a new thread because, even though it's NCP again, the circumstances are completely different, and if it came to court it would be a different claim.

 

Please fill in the sticky as usual and upload the two PCNs.

We could do with some help from you.

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BTW, I found this on the Gatwick Airport site.  Could it explain why trying to pay didn't work?

 

Can I pay the charge whilst still in the drop-off zone?

 

Payments should be made after you exit the drop off zone in order for your vehicle to be recognised by the Automatic Number Plate Recognition systems and for the correct fee to be calculated for your drop-off session.

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We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Fruitsalad & FTMDave.

 

Fruitsalad - Shall I remove the ref to the PCN as well and just leave it as Letter Before Claim?

 

Totally understand we all have our lives to lead. I can only thank you for the time you have given me so far. I will wait for confirmation that we are good to go. In the meantime I will familiarise myself with the claim process as instructed above.

 

FTMDave - I attempted payment the following day, not while in the drop off zone. However, this issue clearly shows an inadequate system is in operation. I will be supplying witness statements from my family who were present while I did it. As there was a definite  moment when I exclaimed I needed to do it, and then went online.

 

Hope you all have a lovely weekend.

 

 

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