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    • You can easily argue your case with no sign on the nearest parking sign
    • Same issue got a fine yesterday for parking in suspended bay which was ending at 6:30 yesterday, next thing I see a fine 15 minutes before it. The sign was obstructed 
    • Hi all, an update on the case as the deadline for filing the WS is tomorrow i.e., 14 days before the hearing date: 7th June. Evri have emailed their WS today to the court and to myself. Attached pdf of their WS - I have redacted personal information and left any redactions/highlights by Evri. In the main: The WS is signed by George Wood. Evri have stated the claim value that I am seeking to recover is £931.79 including £70 court fees, and am putting me to strict proof as to the value of the claim. Evri's have accepted that the parcel is lost but there is no contract between Evri and myself, and that the contract is with myself and Packlink They have provided a copy of the eBay Powered By Packlink Terms and Conditions (T&Cs) to support their argument the contractual relationship is between myself and Packlink, highlighting clause 3a, e, g of these T&Cs. They further highlight clause 14 of the T&Cs which states that Packlink's liability is limited to £25 unless enhanced compensation has been chosen. They have contacted Packlink who informed them that I had been in contact with Packlink and raised a claim with Packlink and the claim had been paid accordingly i.e., £25 in line with the T&Cs and the compensated postage costs of £4.82. They believe this is clear evidence that my contract is with Packlink and should therefore cease the claim against Evri. Evri also cite Clause 23 of the pre-exiting commercial agreement between the Defendant and Packlink, which states:  ‘Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 A person who is not a party to this Agreement shall have no rights under the Contracts (Right of Third Parties) Act 1999 to rely upon or enforce any term of this Agreement provided that this does not affect any right or remedy of the third party which exists or is available apart from that Act.’ This means that the Claimant cannot enforce third party rights under the Contract (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 and instead should cease this claim and raise a dispute with the correct party.   Having read Evri's WS and considered the main points above, I have made these observations: Evri have not seen/read my WS (sent by post and by email) as they would have recognised the claim value is over £1000 as it includes court fees, trial fees, postage costs and interests, and there is a complete breakdown of the different costs and evidence. Evri accepts the parcel is lost after it entered their delivery network - again, this is in my WS and is not an issue in dispute. Evri mentions the £25 and £4.82 paid by Packlink - Again, had they read the WS, they would have realised this is not an issue in dispute. Furthermore to the eBay Powered By Packlink T&Cs that Evri is referring to, Clauses 3b and c of the T&Cs states:  (b)   Packlink is a package dispatch search engine that acts as an intermediary between its Users and Transport Agencies. Through the Website, Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line. (c)  Each User shall then enter into its own contract with the chosen Transport Agency. Packlink does not have any control over, and disclaims all liability that may arise in contracts between a User and a Transport Agency   This supports the view that once a user (i.e, myself) selects a transport agency (i.e Evri) that best suits the user's needs, the user (i.e, myself) enters into a contract with the chosen transport agency (i.e, myself). Therefore, under the T&Cs, there is a contract between myself and Evri. Evri cites their pre-existing agreement with Packlink and that I cannot enforce 3rd party rights under the 1999 Act. Evri has not provided a copy of this contract, and furthermore, my point above explains that the T&Cs clearly explains I have entered into a contract when i chose Evri to deliver my parcel.  As explained in my WS, i am the non-gratuitous beneficiary as my payment for Evri's delivery service through Packlink is the sole reason for the principal contract coming into existence. Clearly Evri have not read by WS as the above is all clearly explained in there.   I am going to respond to Evri's email by stating that I have already sent my WS to them by post/email and attach the email that sent on the weekend to them containing my WS. However, before i do that, If there is anything additional I should further add to the email, please do let me know. Thanks. Evri Witness Statement Redacted v1 compressed.pdf
    • Thank you. I will get on to the SAR request. I am not sure now who the DCA are - I have a feeling it might be the ACI group but will try to pull back the letter they wrote from her to see and update with that once I have it. She queried it initially with 118 118 when she received the default notice I think. Thanks again - your help and support is much appreciated and I will talk to her about stopping her payments at the weekend.
    • you should email contact OCMC immediately and say you want an in person hearing.   stupid to not
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***


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Understood.  Excellent work.

You'll probably need to do a tiny bit of last-minute tweaking depending on what the fleecers write in their WS.

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And, if these expert friends ever have a bit of spare time on their hands, send them to over to CAG.😊

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We could do with some help from you.

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Please see the Notice of Trial Date doc that I was sent by the County Court.

Will I be notified of when the fleecers have submitted their WS? The MCOL website seems to have stop updating since they assigned the matter on to the County Court.

If not, where do I find this. I obviously have all their cut & pasted letters outlining their case against me after my response to their LoC, but I don't think that constitutes their defence WS, does it?

NoticeofTrialDate.pdf

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mcol closes upon allocaTION out to your locAL county court

THE PPC HAVE TO SEND YOU A COPY TOO JUST LIKE YOU HAVE TO SEND THEM YOURS. read the pdf ....by 7 days before hearing.

opps caps sorry

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for clarifying dx100

I may be being blind here, but I can't see anywhere on the pdf I just uploaded where I am being instructed to send my Defence WS to the fleecers? All I seem to see is that it instructs me that, "All documents and correspondences are to be sent electronically to xxxx County Court...." 

I'm sorry if I have missed something? Could you point me to where it is stated that I have to send my defence to them? I am getting somewhat overwhelmed here with paper. 😤

Also, I have told the fleecers I do not want to communicate by email, so should I post a printed version to them? Will thy have to have received this by 13th Sept? Or can I simply post it then and get a Post Office FPP?

 

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its std practice. to exchange witness statements (its not a defence!) 

actually thinking about i , if you dont get theirs by say 23:55 on the day it due, there is no harm in youremailing it even though you've said not to use email

play them at their own game!

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Be careful with that though. I've noticed on some letters that the fleecers / dodgy solicitors state that they don't accept service by email.

Have a quick check of their correspondence. 

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oh but its ok for them to send things out by email...nope cant enforce that if they've already used email sod 'em

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

CASE DISMISSED. 

Apologies for silence. I was asked to drop off any public areas and not share our course of action. I will revert with full defence and help for people on here asap.

But I have to wait for obvious permission from the legal team.

the judge dismissed the case on the grounds that there was no real opportunity to consider the Ts&Cs of 'the contract' before entering the DOZ.

 

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  • AndyOrch changed the title to NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***

Congrats topic title updated.

 

Andy

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Well done on your victory!  👏

 

Is it 3-0 now?  This court victory, the one they "should" have issued at Gatwick airport but their software messed up, and the one they cancelled?  Just leaving the one Gatwick hotel parking one in limbo?

We could do with some help from you.

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Excellent another dodgy fleecer claim vaped.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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That was beyond a Tolchok it was a vapourisation Dave😂🤣

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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On 20/09/2023 at 16:41, MoaningCrusader said:

CASE DISMISSED. 

Apologies for silence. I was asked to drop off any public areas and not share our course of action. I will revert with full defence and help for people on here asap.

But I have to wait for obvious permission from the legal team.

But basically, the judge dismissed the case on the grounds that there was no real opportunity to consider the Ts&Cs of 'the contract' before entering the DOZ.

 

Asked by who?

Was the case dismissed or did you agree to a settlement via Tomlin Order (which you may not be at liberty to disclose).

If the judge dismissed the claim then I cannot see how you agreed to any confidentiality concerning a claim that was heard in an open court.

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i believe this person as well as cag advise used a a firm of solicitors (why i dont know! ) and they are the ones restricting his freedom of speech.

a tomlin does not restrict you from revealing its contents nor the outcome of a case. thats not what the associated clause means.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The case was dismissed. 

We did not want to post any further plans on here as anyone can read this thread, including the fleecers, if I am correct.

I had a barrister in the end, who worked pro bono because he himself was caught out by the DOZ at Heathrow and wanted to test his argument in a court, but couldn’t on his own case as it was discontinued as soon as they found out he was a barrister. We had to hide his involvement as we were concerned should the fleecers discover it and discontinue the case. 

We are currently going to the press about our case result. 
 

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Yes we are going to major national newspapers. The instructing solicitor's firm (who also was a victim of the DOZ at Heathrow) has a PR department who will be handling this. We are waiting for the judge to sign off a drawn up summary of her judgement, as we don't want to pay for the transcript which could take months to be produced. 

We asked if we could use it to publicise the fact the fleecers use the Parkingeye vs Beavis to bully people into thinking they have no choice but to pay these charges. And in particular with my case how they use a completely irrelevant Supreme Court judgement to support their bullying, when in fact the judgements of the Law Lords in most cases supports the fact the likes of DOZs at Gatwick and Heathrow are unfair and unenforceable.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought I might put up some stuff to help any other CAGers hit with APNR DOZ penalty charges.

I am sharing a redacted:

1. My WS

2. The Defence Skeleton Argument (which was submitted later than the bundle)

3. Defendant's Authorities 

Unfortunately, I cannot upload the trial bundle as it's 52MB in size. But I hope the above helps people. Is there anyway of getting the trial bundle up?

I have redacted all documents. I hope I have got everything before I stop my Adobe subscription. Please should you find any info that you feel should be taken down, let me know.

FYI everyone I was strongly advised to not use any POFA in my WS etc. This is primarily because I would be unable to lie under cross examination from either the claimant's solicitor or the Judge. If I lied it would be perjury. Even if I did attempt to mislead the court (again not advised) it would not take long for them to find out through further cross examination that I don't have any other names on my car insurance, and even if I did, I would then be wrongfully naming them as the driver. Basically it's a very messy argument. I was also advised that POFA is being misread by all parties.

On the whole, I was advised to focus on the core argument of an unfair contract. The DOZ set up is clearly completely unfair, and therefore the strongest and really only argument with any real strength in this case. There's no point going into anything else. It would be different in a more standard car park set up. In fact, I have to stress this is all only relevant to APNR DOZ set ups.

The judge dismissed the case solely on the basis that the defendant had no 'REAL' opportunity to consider the Ts&Cs before being put under contract. The judge refused to carry on with any further judgement on our submissions. This was disappointing, as we wanted to get them on the fact that the contract was unenforceable in common law. I think the judge cleverly avoided giving a more controversial judgement in a Small Claims Court.

The judge did say that the parking charge amount was fair, and would not be drawn into the recovery costs submission, as the case had already been dismissed on the first submission of unfair contract.

PS There was an article ran in a major newspaper last weekend... I won't confirm it was me in the article... But the case is very similar. 

 

WITNESS STATEMENT_Redacted.pdf Gatwick DOZ - Defendant's skeleton argument_Redacted.pdf DEFENDANT'S AUTHORITIES.pdf

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Another avenue of complaint is that there appears to be only one way to pay. If you don't have access to wifi or your supplier's system is down for maintenance or repair you cannot pay.

I also recognise the problem you had when checking to see whether a payment had been recorded or not. I had  the same problem with TFL and their Congestion charge help facility. It is tantamount to a scam site. I wanted to know if my car had entered the Congestion charge area in the past four days. They said nothing had come up for the third and fourth days but couldn't confirm anything for the first and second days. 

They suggested that I could pay the charge  for the second day to cover myself but they would no give me a refund if no charge had been due and nor would they accept that payment could be transferred to the first day  if a charge was due from the first day. NCP could take lessons from TFL on how to increase their income.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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