NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***

[dx100uk]

all std.

 

did you not know of these dates when you sent your n180?

 

 

[MoaningCrusader]

I don't remember any specific timeframe being mention at the N180 step from the receipt of the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims to the actual date of the hearing, no ...

 

Did I miss something dx100?

 

It all was very vague and still is according to this letter... It just states the date of the hearing will come 'later'

 

Main thing is my WS is almost ready to go.. So all good.

 

Just wondering should something clash with a time when I am not in the country is there a process to reschedule in the Small Claims Hearing Process? If not, we may have issues. But that will be, what it will be.

 

dx100... Thanks for the nudge... You're always so good at it. 

 

The form telling you when and where the hearing is, and how long it will last, is called a 'notice of allocation'. You'll get at least 21 days' notice of the date of the hearing. You'll also be told when you need to pay the hearing fee - unless you're getting help with court fees.

 

 

[FTMDave]

On the N180 you can state the dates that you can't attend court.

 

But don't worry, no way will it be scheduled for this month or next, that's far too early.

[dx100uk]

A defendant does not pay the allocation fee ...the claimant does . 

 

That relates to the claimant not you but gives an idea of potential timings

[MoaningCrusader]

Yep. I stated on N180 I wasn’t in the country for December. But I hadn’t booked my holiday at that point. Or I would’ve included the dates on the N180… 

[dx100uk]

not your problem.

 

go enjoy your break.

 

 

[MoaningCrusader]

Hi Guys,

 

Sorry for the radio silence... I am finally starting to collate my evidence appendix... I know we discussed supplying WS's from my family members who witnessed my attempted payment of the DOZ fee. I would appreciate some feedback on how this should be worded.

 

Please let me know if you think I should add anything further, or indeed take anything out. All thoughts appreciated.

 

Here's what I have drafted for both my parents and my partner to sign:

 

WITNESS STATEMENT

 

Mr XXXXXXXXXX

 

Everything in the following statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

I, Mr XXXXXX, am confirming that on Friday 15^th October 2021 at approximately 15:00hrs, I witnessed XXXXX access, via Gatwick Airport’s website, National Car Parks Ltd online payment portal to make a £5 drop off zone fee payment for the vehicle XXXXXXX, for which he is the registered keeper.

 

For all intents and purposes and as far as I witnessed, both he and everyone present were satisfied that he had successfully completed the payment process as instructed by the National Car Parks Ltd online instructions; including the supply of his bank account details for the purposes of taking payment.

 

Signed:

 

 

 

            Mr XXXXXXXX

 

Date:

 

I will be collecting the original, signed in ink, documents when visiting them over the May/June half term.

[FTMDave]

Looks good to me.

 

You know about the court details at the start and the Statement of Truth at the end.

[MoaningCrusader]

Ah. I put the statement of truth at the start. I assume by court details you just mean the case number and county court address?

[FTMDave]

Have a look at the attachment in post 110 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/421775-vcs-spycar-pcn-paploc-now-claimform-no-stopping-east-midlands-airport/page/5/#comments

 

If it's not in post 110 it'll be a couple of posts above or below, sometimes the post count goes wonky.

 

You'll see how to start and end a WS.

[MoaningCrusader]

Sorry for the radio silence... I have been swamped with work and family commitments...

FTMDave, thanks for the link. I have actually used this WS as starting template for my own full WS for presentation to the court. I have pasted the details on to the start of the doc for my witnesses to sign.

Here's what I am going to get my parents and partner to sign... The document will also have the claim number in the top right part of the header.

 

In the County Court at XXXX

 

BETWEEN: National Car Parks (EUK) Ltd (claimant)

 

AND

 

Mr XXXX XXXX (defendant)

 

Witness Statement of Mr XXXX XXXX

 

Everything in the following statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

I, Mr XXXX XXXX, am confirming that on Friday 15^th October 2021 at approximately 15:00hrs, I witnessed XXXXX access, via Gatwick Airport’s website, National Car Parks Ltd online payment portal to make a £5 drop off zone fee payment for the vehicle XXXXX, for which he is the registered keeper.

For all intents and purposes and as far as I witnessed, both he and everyone present were satisfied that he had successfully completed the payment process as instructed by the National Car Parks Ltd online instructions; including the supply of his bank account details for the purposes of taking payment.

 

Signed:

 

 

 

           XXXXXXX

 

Date:

How's that enough and worth adding to the WS evidence bundle?

[FTMDave]

Looks damn good to me.

[Nicky Boy]

The more bullets in the gun, the better.

[lookinforinfo]

Might be better not to include all the witnesses since it may become more obvious who the driver was.

[Nicky Boy]

The driver didn't necessarily pay for the parking...

[MoaningCrusader]

Thanks for your feedback guys... I have been chipping away at my 2nd draft of my WS over the last month or two. I'm going to present the loaded gun to you all, with as many 'bullets' as I think I have... We can then take out anything we think may weaken the case. 

How's that sound?

It's coming I promise...

[Nicky Boy]

Waiting to get locked and loaded

[MoaningCrusader]

To tantalise you all... I am currently putting together the evidence document appendix... I think I almost there. 

Ok here is my 2nd draft saved as PDF and hopefully with all personal info redacted...

I have not included the evidence docs, as they will take too much time for right now to do redacted versions. But i think the quotes from the evidence docs are all pretty included in the WS anyway. I just include them for the judge's reference and top prove they exist.

I look forward to tweaking this further and hopefully have a good WS ready for when required to be submitted

 

 

WSNCP:BWLegalRedacted2ndDraft.pdf

See above for the new one with Section 11 update. I thought I had got everything.

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

 

dx

[MoaningCrusader]

Thanks dx100. My apologies. I thought I had got everything out. 

 

[FTMDave]

That is a cracking Witness Statement - well done.

I love your stuff in (4) about "on behalf of the driver and their party"

My only thought is this.  Your "Frustration of Contract" part is one of your two aces, along with "No Keeper Liability".  Yet a reader almost misses it in the 17 lines of (11)/(11.1(/(11.2).  Would it not be better to massively slim down your description of attempting to pay and then calling customer services near the start of the WS, and instead hammer home these points in "Frustratration of Contract"? 

[MoaningCrusader]

Thanks for the feedback FTMDave.

I'll have a look at the Frustration of Contract bit. I would the order of events are just what they are, and I could certainly reference the relevant points again.

How about if I simply move the Frustration of Contract section before Illegal Signage? 

[FTMDave]

I've just reread the first half of the WS again, and I think that switch would be an excellent idea.

It'd all be there at the start that you did everything you could to try to pay but NCP's computer system is pants.  This is one of your aces.

A bit off topic, but I was going to write a silly post comparing the number of motorists prepared to go after the PPCs for breaches of SAR or GDPR from before you joined the forum - i.e. nil - to now.  Unfortunately the second number has become a bit uncertain as some have gone for it and won, some have said they would go for it and disappeared ... but let's say your example has been very positive and given confidence to others who otherwise would just have given in!  However, stick to the writing, don't try to get a job with a PPC, as I doubt you'd be very popular with them

Edited June 1, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo

[FTMDave]

If you want a bit of fun, read the last few posts here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/456241-employment-tribunal-hearing-coming-up/page/6/#comment-5214597

This is another Moaning Crusader-inspired data protection victory.

This is not a PPC case, but @Nicky Boy mentioned to the OP what you'd been up to on the PPC forum and she decided to follow your fine example.

 

 

 

 

 

[MoaningCrusader]

Hi Guys. I have returned home from my holiday to quite a pile of mail.

I have been sent my Notice of Trial Date from the County Court. It will be on 20-09-23, so long as The Fleecers pay their court trial fee by 23rd August. The trial will be 2hrs via CVP (online). A tad annoying, as this makes it easier and inexpensive for The Fleecers to turn up.

Do you want me to post a redacted Notice of Trial Date? Or is this pretty standard stuff?

Now... Here's where things get interesting. Just this morning, I was called by one of their 'paralegals'. I ignored the call, and they left a message requesting me to call them back to discuss the case. Naturally, I have ignored this, waiting to hear people's thoughts on here.

I also received the following email from them 2mins after they made the call:

Our Client: National Car Parks (EUK) Limited

Claim Number: XXXXX

Our Reference:XXXXXX

Hearing Date: 20 September 2023

Balance Due: £250.74

Good morning, 

I write in respect of the above matter.

We would like to discuss the matter further. Please may you provide a number and the best time to call?

Alternatively, the above matter can be discussed via email for your convenience.

 We look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards

XXXXXX

Paralegal

I assume I want to keep all discussion in writing, preferably by letter. But is email acceptable? How should I respond? I feel I need to at least demonstrate my willingness to engage with the matter before going to court? Will I not appear unreasonable to the judge, if I don't?

I am thinking a response demanding all correspondence is in writing and asking them what particular aspects of the matter they wish to discuss? As up until now nothing has been presented in their correspondence as up for any discussion or compromise.

What are your thoughts?