NPE/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC now claimform - wrong reg - MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR

[lookinforinfo]

No doubt in response to the Government coming out with new regulations that will scrap  the kangaroo courts and appeals set up by BPA and IPC . Under the new regs minor things like your mistake in keying will automatically be quashed. 

I doubt that they will take this to Court since it would be thrown out by any Judge so why pay anything when you don't owe anything.

Edited July 9, 2021 by lookinforinfo
typo

[SCDH]

Thanks, let's hope so.  Not just for me but for anyone else who gets harassed and threatened with court action for an entry error.  Everyone's input and advice on this thread has been really appreciated and it has given me the confidence to fight this all the way should it come to a civil court action, albeit unlikely. 

[SCDH]

Hi,

As FTM Dave requested earlier, I have attached photos in the PDF of the the parking meter at different distances, the official parking notice and the distance between the street lights on both sides.  Next time I'm in Oulton Broad at night when this happened, I'll take photos of how dark the machine is without dedicated machine lighting and poor street lights.

 

Many thanks

Parking Meter Images.pdf

[brassnecked]

Whatever the signage says incorrect entry is de-minimis, and anyway many cheapo ANPR fleecers use has a hissy fit with O and 0, and I and 1 5 and S

[SCDH]

Thanks and interesting to know that some machines have problems with certain letters and numbers.  As mentioned, photos were asked for earlier so I thought I would post them just out of interest.

[lookinforinfo]

Thanks for posting up their signs. Is the one that states it is a "Pay on Foot car park" at the entrance or just randomly inside the car park?

[SCDH]

Hi lookinforinfo,

 

No problem, regarding the 'Pay on Foot car park' sign there are two, one on the inside at the front of the carpark approximately 5-10 meters from the entrance and another one on the inside at the back of the car park roughly in the middle.  There isn't one at the main entrance to the car park.  Both are situated inside the car park front and back.

Edited July 23, 2021 by SCDH

[lookinforinfo]

I was hoping it wouldn't be too near the entrance so that there was no contract on offer when motorists entered. I would have thought that 5 metres at least inside would not constitute an offer at the entrance. Therefore there is only an invitation to treat.

Edited July 24, 2021 by lookinforinfo

[SCDH]

Thanks lookinforinfo. The sign's text at the font is facing internally so it can't read until you are inside the carpark looking outwards several meters to the right of the entrance.  Therefore, the wording isn't visible until you are actually inside the carpark. I don't know if that makes any difference but I would have thought the point about incorrect entry being de-minimis would be the bigger issue.

[lookinforinfo]

It means that their signage, if that is the first sign when arriving at the car park, that the signage is not capable of offering a contract only an invitation to treat. This may help-

Offers and Invitation to Treat

WWW.LAWTEACHER.NET

---

Offers and invitation to treat are the primary examples of transactions and they have certain procedures to secure interchange between people. This essay will focus on some human rights in the contract law. However, in...

 

[dx100uk]

wording of the sign is wrong 

it should read entering AND remaining.

 

ignore them until/unless they issue a letter of claim.

 

there is also the issue of wrong reg is soon to not be a reason to issue a speculative invoice

 

dx

 

 

 

[brassnecked]

They would be ill advised to try a claim, given what we now  know about the site and signage, but they are blinded by greed .

[SCDH]

Thanks gents.  No sign is visible to read until you have entered the carpark, certainly not on entry so on the face of it it's not possible to offer a contract or invitation to treat prior to entering.  I'll try and get carpark area photos next time so you can see the positioning of the signs. 

 

Interesting point about the wording.  Yes, I fully intend to ignore them until a Letter Of Claim or LBC is received.  I've had an email from BW Legal last week enticing me to call them for a possible reduced fine.  Of course, if I were to do that they would then badger me with calls and texts as well as emails and letters so I've got no intention of calling them.  They even stated that we will continue to call and text me if I do not respond, so why would I? The email from last week is attached as a PDF, of course minus personal details.

 

Agree, greed is what drives them and of course by trying to wear people down with constant letters and threats, some people will give in and pay just to get them off their backs!

 

  Appreciate your help.

BW Legal 2nd Email.pdf

[dx100uk]

FINE ...where does it say that?

 

They will do what they like to try and intimidate you by whatever method. Until you get a PAPLOC by royal mail...block and ignore

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

[SCDH]

Thanks.

[SCDH]

For all the contributors on this thread, many thanks for all your help so far.

 

I have just received a Letter of Claim from BW Legal. along with several other documents including...

 

(1) ANNEX 1 INFORMATION SHEET - Which starts: You have received this notice because a business intends to take you to court in relation to a debt.

 

(2) Pre-Action Protocol For Debt Claims - Particulars of debt - Statement of Account - Warning of court proceedings

 

(3) REPLY FORM - YOU HAVE 30 DAYS FROM THE DATE AT THE TOP O FTHIS ENCLOSED LETTER TO FILL IN AND RETURN THIS FORM.  IF YOU DON'T, IT COULD END UP IN COURT PROCEEDINGS. 

SECTION 1: Do you owe the debt? BOX A - I agree I won the debt,  BOX B - I owe some debt but not all of it, BOX C - I don't know whether I owe the debt, BOX D - I dispute the debt.  SECTION 2: How will you pay? BOX E - I will pay what I owe now, BOX F - I will pay but I need time to pay BOX G - I am getting or intend to get debt advice, BOX H - I have provided documents, BOX I - I need more documents or information.  Reverse side - Income & Expenditure Form.

 

Do I complete the REPLY FORM and tick (BOX D - I dispute the debt) with a covering letter and if so, advice on how that letter should be worded would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

I'm sure we can help you but could you post up the details requested in the forum sticky please?

 

B

H

[brassnecked]

Its "snotty letter" time, use the Google search box at the top of the pege to search on Snotty Letter, to see what its all about , and you do not use their included forms, to reply.  The idea is to let the Fleecer's know that you know their case is likely pants as wrong registration number is de minimis, so not enough to ground a claim, whatever POPLA might say, and so  they would be better to leave you alone and move on to a more willing mug.

[SCDH]

Thanks Honeybee,

 

I did post the details from the sticky on the first page but here they are again unless you mean something else?

 

As requested, my answers are as follows:

 

Please answer the following questions for ANPR.

 

1 Date of the infringement 23rd February 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 28th February 2018

 

3 Date received Can't remember - approximately within a week.
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes it does.
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, a photos of my car entering and leaving and the registration number
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? National Parking Enforcement

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Independent Appeals Service www.theias.org

Letter of Claim.pdf

[brassnecked]

Not a Claimform  is a PAPLOC, so it's send a snotty letter to the PPC and BW legal, others will be along soon to give more input on the hows and whys of a Snotty Letter.

[SCDH]

Thanks Brassnecked,

 

I did set the search box at the top of the page to Google but couldn't make too much sense out of the results?  I'm sure I'll get the gist in due course.

[dx100uk]

use our enhanced google search box on this page

if you use our search in the top red banner you need to put a + sign between the words so

 

snotty+letter.

 

dx

[SCDH]

Thanks dx.  That makes more sense and better results.

[FTMDave]

There are examples you could adapt in drew57's and munksey2001's threads.