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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Terrorised by Close Brothers Motor Finance - Repossession


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Hi,

 

I purchased a used car from Motorpoint in around July 2016 which was financed through Close Brothers.

I was heavily pressurised to have a synthetic paint added to the agreement, which increased the monthly premium.

 

When I collected the car I was taken on a brief test drive before taking the car away and during test drive the car was pulling quite badly to the right.

I told the person who accompanied me for test drive from Motorpoint that it was pulling quite badly and he told me no, it wasn't and had already been check and there was nothing wrong with it. He was trying to deny and refuse fixing it. I then had to pick it up on a different day so they could fix the problem.

 

I have had no problems with the car since, except handprints of white synthetic paint on the black interior of car from where they applied the synthetic coat.

I did not notice those handprints / marks until later and felt unable to complain about it. 

The loan was over 60 months at around £260 per month.

I have struggled with finances for a while but always paid on time and have paid over £7000 in repayments.

 

I ran into financial & health problems towards end of last year and was late with a payment by I think only 2 days and Close Brothers sent a nasty aggressive debt collector to my home who absolutely terrified me, smashing on my front door, stalking around the property, looking in windows and flashing torch through windows, trying to open doors etc... Communication with them has completely broken down because of this.

 

I think that was Towerhall solutions and the debt has now been passed to Bluestone.

They offered to reduce the debt by a couple of thousand if I pay them immediately, but obviously I am in financial difficulties and no way of doing that. 

 

I am confused and now don't understand who owns the debt. 

I have been petrified of losing my car, which is a lifeline to me and I am in hardship, without any ability to buy another car.

 

I am trying to recover my health and prevent losing my home at the same time and struggle to sleep panicking that the car won't be there when I wake up.

I still have the car and wondered if anybody could tell me if I would be given any notice of a court hearing about this before they could take the car, or if I maybe have any claim against them.

 

 

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The issues mentioned have nothing to do with the debt.

 

Yes if the car has unpaid finance registered against it,  then they can attempt to repossess. 

 

What does the last letter you received say exactly ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Unclebulgaria - Thank you for your reply.

 

I expected it to be taken some time ago.... 

 

I have always paid my debts with diligence, but just really feel they have acted a bit unreasonably towards me and their actions have had a profound effect on my  health and caused me so much distress, which has had a bit of a domino effect and made it much more difficult for me to get back into a position to make payments. 

 

I could not live without a car so the constant worry of it being taken away is causing me extra stress... 

 

I think the most recent letter was from Bluestone asking for full payment, although will double check this and let you know if any different... 

 

Also really would like to avoid a CCJ and I find all of their correspondence distressing, but just confused and don't know what to do. Does that mean that Close Brothers no longer own the debt?

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Could be that Bluestone own the debt now.

We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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who do bluestone state is their client on their letters please?

 

no they cant take the car from private property without a court return of goods order as you've paid more than 1/3rd so it is deemed protected goods now.

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Unclebulgaria - Thank you again for your reply - Any suggestions what I should do... If anything?

 

DX - It says their client is: Close Brothers Motor Finance - That's why I'm confused... So does the debt now definitely belong to Bluestone?

 

Thank you - That's reassuring about the having paid more than a 1/3rd - So does that mean I would receive a court papers and given a chance to defend before they could take?

 

... I have managed (albeit with great difficulty) to keep the car taxed, MOT'd & insured to date - Although, I switched insurers through a broker and ironically my current car insurance is with Close Brothers... I was late on a payment with that too and they immediately slapped a £30 late fee, which made it very difficult for me under my circumstances...

 

 

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penalty fees are unlawful.

reclaim them.

 

so very safe to ignore another powerless DCA = bluestone.

 

lets put it this way

 

IF anyone takes the car you could take them to court and get all your payments back and keep the car.

as long as you do not sign and agree to them doing it

as this is an hP agreement?

fully enshrined and protected within the consumer credit act are you.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I had double checked my bank account before the car insurance premium was due and there was just enough to cover it, but online banking didn't show that my bank (Co-op) had charged me a late fee, meaning that my car insurance payment didn't clear and I didn't find out about the £30 fee charged by Close Bros until post arrived and received letter from them. 

 

I complained but it took me over an hour on the phone and a lot of distress.

They told me would cancel the insurance if I didn't pay, so paid their late fee a couple days later....

I had to go without any food that week.

 

They then, some weeks later, sent me a letter saying late fee paid had been credited to my car insurance account as gesture of goodwill, but that if I was late again I would not be refunded any late fees.

 

You've reassured me so much - Thank you!

 

Although if they took the car, I would have even more difficulty attending court than I do at the moment.

What will happen about my credit file if I just ignore this?...

I think I remember a default notice sent to me a while ago...

Does that mean that this will still affect my credit for 6 years if I do nothing? 

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but is HP the same thing as motor finance, or something different?... 

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Hire Purchase look at your agreement.

 

co-op don't charge late fees?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sorry, I'm tired - Yes of course it's HP isn't it...

 

Co-op charges.... They've charge me many fees, although not sure if they're late fees, missed d.debit fees or what... I've banked with them for over 10 years too, so god knows what their various fees have added up to over the years... !  

 

I have loans with them too which are now in arrears and have had various problems with them too... With do a separate thread for that when I can put my mind to it... Not sure whether to include that with the Britannia mortgage thread or not, as they are same company aren't they

 

DX - What I meant was is hire purchase the same thing as motor finance?... My loan with Close Brothers was 60 months to be completely paid off, with no balloon payment at the end.... I had a vehicle finance agreement on a car when I was 17 which did have a large balloon payment at the end of loan term. Is the latter kind of agreement what is known as HP, or are both types of agreement still HP? Hope that makes sense?

 

The co-op charges I mentioned I think were for either going into an unauthorised overdraft, or for return of d.debits/standing orders without enough funds to clear... Not entirely sure to be honest but certainly hasn't helped when being in such financial hardship.

 

So with this type of situation with my car, if they went to court to get an order to repossess it, would I receive any actual court papers giving me a chance to attend / defend? Or would they just go and get a court order and then remove the car without notice?

 

 

Edited by Cadbury10
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4 hours ago, Cadbury10 said:

DX - What I meant was is hire purchase the same thing as motor finance?... My loan with Close Brothers was 60 months to be completely paid off, with no balloon payment at the end.... I had a vehicle finance agreement on a car when I was 17 which did have a large balloon payment at the end of loan term. Is the latter kind of agreement what is known as HP, or are both types of agreement still HP? Hope that makes sense?

 

The co-op charges I mentioned I think were for either going into an unauthorised overdraft, or for return of d.debits/standing orders without enough funds to clear... Not entirely sure to be honest but certainly hasn't helped when being in such financial hardship.

 

So with this type of situation with my car, if they went to court to get an order to repossess it, would I receive any actual court papers giving me a chance to attend / defend? Or would they just go and get a court order and then remove the car without notice?

 

 

You would get papers from the court regarding application for return of goods.   You could defend if you can make payments going forward together with something to cover the arrears - if you can't make payments then the court would almost certainly award a return of goods order to the claimant.

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Hi UncleBulgaria,

 

The most recent letter I received today is statement from Close Brothers... It details various random fee charges as well...

Edited by dx100uk
thread tidy session only
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which are all unlawful.

and can be reclaimed.

 

just to be clear..

once 1/3rd has been paid they CANNOT just repo the car

else they void the agreement as I detailed earlier.

 

you'll soon know if they go for a ROG

not seen close brothers do that so TBH i'd put this problem on the back burner

least of your worries.

 

keep that roof over your cats heads is the very TOP financial priority.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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@Ell-enn - Thank you for your reply. Do you mean there would be no way of reclaiming payments made or keeping the car, as suggested by DX, until such time as they physically remove the car and I would then have to try to fight to get it back?... Would there be no option to file counterclaim? Or file a claim before they attempt to obtain ROG order? 

 

@dx100uk - Thank you for your reply... How do I go about reclaiming those fees/charges?

 

Thank you again for your reassurance that they cannot just remove the car without court order... That have relieved at least a little bit of stress.

 

It has been on the back burner as it were, as trying to prevent home repossession has been top priority, but this too, as if the car was removed, my horrendous existing problems would be escalated rapidly and my car really is a lifeline for me which I cannot live without either... 

 

I don't recall mentioning having cats on here before...It's almost like you're psychic! Hahaha..

 

Although I feel hugely reassured by what you have said, I still really don't want this hanging over my head and thinking of longer term problems with this, what options do I have? If any?

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well 1st you'd need all the statements - sar time.

lets find out the extent of their charges if any

but it doesn't resolve nor remove you from needing to pay this as you should though.

 

but of course as I pointed too, and so has ell-enn, they can go for an ROG,

ok close brother are an unknown here on that we've not seen one

and their T&C's are very bad with regard their treatment of people that don't pay.

 

we've seen people get visits from powerless dca's and repo agents within 10day of a missed payment

but not heard of thing escalating to ROG...yet!!

 

but you must act

if not simply to tell them they'll one be getting £xxPCM for xx mts.

don't ignore the problem

communicate with them but NEVER over the phone

that goes for any debt!!

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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