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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Hi,

 

Need some advice,

 

I got a letter on Friday from Jacobs Enforcement Agents for my Council Tax and it states on the letter the following:

Removal Scheduled for 18/6/2018 at 7.30am

- now all I need to know is that can Jacobs force entry into my flat?

 

I am worried as I will be out as I am in work from 8am - 6pm.

They haven't been in my flat as I haven't been answering the door, so can they still force entry even if they haven't been in my flat?

 

I am waiting for it to go back to the council so I can set up a payment arrangement with them.

 

Hope for some advice thanks, been worrying all weekend.

 

Regards.

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No, for council tax they cannot force entry on initial visits.

Different situation if you sign a walking possession order but you haven't.

 

You can try having the council take the debt back but you will need extenuating circumstances for them to do this.

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No they cant

But no also is your 'waiting for it to go back to the council' theory

 

Where did you get that useless info from?

If you've had the £75 notice of enforcement letter?

And they've already attended your home too?

 

Thats just cost you an extra unnecessary £325

You should have made a sensible arrangement with the bailiffs within 7 days of the NOE......

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No they cant

But no also is your 'waiting for it to go back to the council' theory

 

Where did you get that useless info from?

If you've had the £75 notice of enforcement letter?

And they've already attended your home too?

 

Thats just cost you an extra unnecessary £325

You should have made a sensible arrangement with the bailiffs within 7 days of the NOE......

 

I didn't think it was useless, that is what I got told on a [removed] - everyone is saying that it will go back to the council, unless they lying?

 

No, for council tax they cannot force entry on initial visits.

Different situation if you sign a walking possession order but you haven't.

 

You can try having the council take the debt back but you will need extenuating circumstances for them to do this.

 

Thanks sgtbush for the advice :)

Edited by dx100uk
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I think you may find that [removed] is a freeman of the land type site and you should not take that seriously.

 

The debt is unlikely to be returned to the council, as the enforcement fees are now due to the enforcement company.

Once it has gone passed the 7 days allowed in the enforcement notice and a visit has taken place, you will find that the enforcement company will keep your file to see if they can enforce.

 

If you have anything outside the flat they can seize items outside.

 

If you don't enter into payment arrangement, other enforcement options will be looked into. If you are employed, payment can come out of your wages, which the council can arrange and then pass some of the money to enforcement company so they receive the fees due to them.

 

In the situation, you are probably best to write to the council advising that you are not avoiding payment, but simply do not have the time to deal with council or any enforcement company.

 

Ask the council to supply their account number and sortcode, so you can set up a standing order or look on the councils website to see if these details are provided. Then set up a standing order for an affordable amount. The council will no doubt just refer you to enforcement company, but at least you have it in writing that you offered to pay the council, which will be handy if you are taken to court.

.

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That's incorrect.

If an attachment of earnings is used then the warrant will have been voluntarily returned by the bailiff and their fees are no longer due.

Only one enforcement power can exist for the debt at any time.

 

The OP is correct - if they have nothing of value outside and no CGA is in place then 'waiting it out' (for want of a better phrase) will see the warrant returned to the council and the fees removed. It's not ideal and you won't know when the warrant has been returned, but if you can put up with the bailiff calling without warning any day between 6am to 9pm then it will work.

 

I'd advise the OP to contact the council and remind them that there is no obligation to deal with the bailiff and doing so would only increase the debt.

Request that the warrant is returned otherwise you'll await for the bailiff to return the warrant voluntarily

Make it clear that this is not a refusal to pay and that you will be putting money aside each month/week to pay towards the debt once the bailiffs are no longer involved.

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I didn't think it was unless, that is what I got told on [removed] - everyone is saying that it will go back to the council, useless they lying?

 

 

Much of what is posted on there is garbage, but 'sitting it out' is an option if you can stomach it, as explained in my post above.

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I didn't think it was useless, that is what I got told on a [removed] - everyone is saying that it will go back to the council, unless they lying?

 

The debt will eventually go back to the council but that is not an option at the moment. You will not get told when a debt is returned but in almost all cases that I assist with, the position will be that when the account is returned, the council will merely refer it to another enforcement company under contract to them. Most councils have contracts with at least 2 and many times, 3 enforcement companies.

 

Did you not contact the local authority when notified that a Liability Order had been obtained?

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per i'd be finding out who the owner of that facebook group is and SUE THEM.

they've cost you £325! with wrong information that they've been told is wrong and proved wrong 1000's of times before here going back +5yrs but still do it!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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That's incorrect.

If an attachment of earnings is used then the warrant will have been voluntarily returned by the bailiff and their fees are no longer due.

Only one enforcement power can exist for the debt at any time.

 

 

No you are incorrect.....CPR 70 .2

 

Methods of enforcing judgments or orders

70.2

(1) Practice Direction 70 sets out methods of enforcing judgments or orders for the payment of money.

 

(2) A judgment creditor may, except where an enactment, rule or practice direction provides otherwise –

 

(a) use any method of enforcement which is available; and

 

(b) use more than one method of enforcement, either at the same time or one after another.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part70

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

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No you are incorrect.....CPR 70 .2

 

Methods of enforcing judgments or orders

70.2

(1) Practice Direction 70 sets out methods of enforcing judgments or orders for the payment of money.

 

(2) A judgment creditor may, except where an enactment, rule or practice direction provides otherwise –

 

(a) use any method of enforcement which is available; and

 

(b) use more than one method of enforcement, either at the same time or one after another.

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

70.2 doesn't apply to council tax.

 

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 part 52:

(2) Steps under this Part by way of attachment of allowances, attachment of earnings, distress, commitment, bankruptcy, winding up or charging may not be taken against a person under a liability order while steps by way of another of those methods are being taken against him under it.

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Relationship between remedies

 

52.—(1) Where a warrant of commitment is issued against (or a term of imprisonment is fixed in the case of) a person under regulation 47(3), no steps, or no further steps, may be taken under this Part by way of attachment of allowances, attachment of earnings, distress, bankruptcy or charging in relation to the relevant amount mentioned in regulation 47(4).

 

(2) Steps under this Part by way of attachment of allowances, attachment of earnings, distress, commitment, bankruptcy, winding up or charging may not be taken against a person under a liability order while steps by way of another of those methods are being taken against him under it.

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yet again cag blows these silly people that just cost this member £325 out the water totally

 

PowerlessFlawedGyrfalcon-max-1mb.gif

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 7 months later...

Morning,

 

Please accept my apology if this isn't in the correct topic but need some urgent advice,

 

I got a huge council tax debt problem which needs sorting ASAP,

at the moment I have outstanding is: £2,623.75

 

I have got bailiffs (Jacobs Enforcement) on my back,

but I got told they can't force entry for council tax, is this correct?

 

I got a letter over the weekend stating removal is in place, but they never been in my flat.

 

Today, I am going to look for some advice regarding this as this is making me depressed.

I also been told that I could get evicted from my flat,

but I think this is untrue as council tax is nothing to do with eviction, is this correct?

I am with a housing association.

 

I can't believe I left it too long, I buried my head in the sand hoping it would go away, but didn't knew council tax was a priority bill.

 

Could Citizen Advice help me with this debt?

 

Any advice would be great, thank you.

Edited by dx100uk
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They cannot break into your house, unless they have been inside before.

 

They can break into outbuildings e.g. Sheds, separate garages. They can look in your garden.

 

Don't have anything outside the house, you don't want them to seize.

 

If you have had notice of enforcement and are still within the 7 day notice period, give their office a call, to see if you can come to an arrangement.

 

Enforcement companies will keep trying and won't just pass back to the council. If you are not working, have no goods of significant value and have little means to pay this debt, then it is your choice, whether you let Jacobs agent see this. If you satisfy Jacobs that they won't be able to recover this debt, then it will go back to the Council quicker. The Council can apply for the debt to be deducted from any benefits you receive, with a small deduction being taken each month.

We could do with some help from you.

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what letters have you received?

have you had a notice of enforcement?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Morning,

 

I got a huge council tax debt problem which needs sorting ASAP, at the moment I have outstanding is: £2,623.75

 

I have got bailiffs (Jacobs Enforcement) on my back, but I got told they can't force entry for council tax, is this correct?

 

I got a letter over the weekend stating removal is in place, but they never been in my flat.

I also been told that I could get evicted from my flat, is this correct?

I am with a housing association.

 

I can't believe I left it too long, I buried my head in the sand hoping it would go away, but didn't knew council tax was a priority bill.

 

Could Citizen Advice help me with this debt?

 

 

Before getting to the very late stage of receiving a 'Removal Notice', you should have received a previous letter from Jacobs called a Notice of Enforcement. It is on receipt of this notice that a payment proposal can be made. Did you receive this notice? If not, have you moved address at all?

 

Please ignore any threats about 'eviction'.

 

This is council tax debt and there is also no right to 'force entry'. As the debt has now been escalated to the 'enforcement stage' then it is only right that you be made aware that the enforcement agent would look towards seizing a vehicle that may belong to you to cover the debt. On this point, do you have a vehicle? Is it subject to finance?

 

PS: Are you working or in receipt of benefits?

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Hi, thank you, Yes, I keep getting lots of letters about removal stages and that's all, and no, not moved adress as I live in my flat since 2012

- that's great about eviction, I thought that was wrong information.

I don't drive so don't have a car.

 

what letters have you received?

have you had a notice of enforcement?

 

dx

 

Yes, and keep getting letters with the red letter stating - REMOVAL - 7 DAY NOTICE and the amount below but nothing after them letters and they don't make any contact for weeks.

Edited by dx100uk
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did you ever get a notice of enforcement ??

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes, and keep getting letters with the red letter stating - REMOVAL - 7 DAY NOTICE and the amount below but nothing after them letters and they don't make any contact for weeks.

 

As you are becoming distressed at the letters, it may be a good idea to send an email to Jacobs to outline an affordable payment arrangement?

Are you working or in receipt of benefits?

Are you a single person or single parent etc?

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Yes, I have been trying to come some sort of a payment arrangement but Jacobs is not having any of it, they state that if I pay a full payment in full on one account then they can do it but I can't afford to pay a full amount.

 

No, I am not currently working but aiming to get back into work ASAP just very quiet at the moment with jobs and I am on Universal Credit and I am a single person living in a 1 bed flat from a Housing Association.

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If you haven't a car, and you don't let them in, there isn't a lot Jacobs can do, they can't add any more fees, certainly not the Sales fee as they have no Controlled Goods Order on anything. Presumably you have nothing of value in the flat anyway, bear in mind that for £2,000 of debt they would need around £20,000 of goods as at a distress auction stuff fetches around 10% of its value.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Google your local council Code of Practice on Ctax Recovery, you will see that being out of work , on benefits makes you a vulnerable person for the purposes of Council Tax collection, meaning that bailiffs cannot be used.

 

Call your local council in the morning and explain this to them, and they will have to call the Bailiffs off immediately. It's highly likely that they have never bothered reading their own COP, and you will be told that this is not the case.

 

If this happens, email your local councillor immediately, explaining your situation. You will find that the problem will be solved very rapidly

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Google your local council Code of Practice on Ctax Recovery, you will see that being out of work , on benefits makes you a vulnerable person for the purposes of Council Tax collection, meaning that bailiffs cannot be used.

 

 

Do you have a link for this?

 

I think you will find that it says that people from this group may be more likely to be vulnerable, not are vulnerable.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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https://www.oxford.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/445/council_tax_debt_recovery_procedure.pdf

 

Try this, it's a PDF download, there are several pages on what constitutes vulnerability.

 

All my advice on here is based on my own experience, I used this COP, my wife was chronically ill (I offered to provide a full consultant's report). The Bailiffs were called off and all costs revoked.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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