PCM Windscreen PCN claimform - Sailsbury village - REsidential Permit fallen on Floor **WON**

[apahtan]

Hi,

 

I received a parking ticket for £60 if I pay it in 14 days and £100 if I pay it in 30 days from a PCM (Parking control management),

I have a permit however it was on the floor of my car but visible through the windscreen, I still got a ticket,

I appealed the ticket and I still have no reply.

 

I got a letter in the post stating I now have to pay £160 because I haven’t paid,

however I was waiting for the reply from the appeal

 

I called and apparently if I hadn’t heard in 14 days from the appeal I should of called them and I was made aware that it said this on the back of the parking ticket, however they claimed to have sent a letter declining the appeal on the 2nd of February which I still haven’t received,

 

I appealed on the 1st of February and the ticket was issued on the 30th of January.

 

What shall I do?

 

Thanks

[brassnecked]

So you have identified yourself as the driver, what kind of Permit system is it, work? Residential?

 

Hang tight the team will be along soon with other questions in the meantime if you could answer the questions here:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[apahtan]

So you have identified yourself as the driver, what kind of Permit system is it, work? Residential?

 

It is a residential area, I live in the area and my car is normally parked there. The area is controlled by PCM and you need permits to park there. I hope this helps.

[brassnecked]

Have you got allocated parking, and is it rented or owned properties? Terms of occupation might trump the PPC depending on who allowed them to infest the area. Anyway I'm sure the team will be along soon with useful info and advice.

[apahtan]

We don't have allocated parking and I'm a student at Hertfordshire University living in a rented properly for students.

 

I received the parking charge on the 30th of January, appealed on the 1st and said this:

 

I recently bought a new car, my permit had yet to be stuck onto the new window so it was left on the dashboard. Presumably a gust of wind blew the permit from the dashboard onto the front seat.

 

I was in a lecture when my housemate saw the traffic warden and ran outside to challenge him, however he had disappeared.

 

He got photographic evidence of the permit on display in the front of the vehicle minutes after the traffic warden issued the ticket.

 

The time the ticket issued was 10:48am, the time-stamp on the first photo taken of the ticket and permit on display was at 10:56am (delay caused by searching for the traffic warden).

 

The permit was clearly visible from any angle, which is backed up by photo evidence.

The photos were taken by a housemate who did not have access to the inside of the car, so he saw what the warden would have seen.

 

I live in a rented house that issued 2 parking permits, only two residents of the house can drive (me and one other), so there is no reason why my permit wouldn't have been in the car.

 

I understand that the permit should have been on the dashboard, but due to my circumstances i hope that you can show me kindness and allow me this once.

 

I cant currently afford to pay the charge and it will leave me in dire financial circumstances, potentially leaving me in the situation where i cannot afford to travel home to see my dad, my mum recently passed in December and he relies on me to come home to visit him every weekend.

I can provide photos when requested.

Thankyou for time.

 

Apparently it was declined and i was sent a letter in the post on the 2nd of Feb which i still haven't received and i was made aware of this when i rang up after receiving a letter stating i have to now pay £160 as i didn't enquire about the appeal within 14 daysand it says on this on the back of the parking charge that if i didn't receive a reply in 14 days i had to call, I wasn't given any reason as to why it was declined. this happened in salisbury village a residential area in hatfield.

[honeybee13]

Could you post up the information brassnecked requested in post #2 please?

 

HB

[apahtan]

1. 30th January 2018

 

2. Yes i appealed, this is what i said:

I recently bought a new car, my permit had yet to be stuck onto the new window so it was left on the dashboard. Presumably a gust of wind blew the permit from the dashboard onto the front seat.

I was in a lecture when my housemate saw the traffic warden and ran outside to challenge him, however he had disappeared.

He got photographic evidence of the permit on display in the front of the vehicle minutes after the traffic warden issued the ticket.

The time the ticket issued was 10:48am, the time-stamp on the first photo taken of the ticket and permit on display was at 10:56am (delay caused by searching for the traffic warden).

The permit was clearly visible from any angle, which is backed up by photo evidence.

The photos were taken by a housemate who did not have access to the inside of the car, so he saw what the warden would have seen.

I live in a rented house that issued 2 parking permits, only two residents of the house can drive (me and one other), so there is no reason why my permit wouldn't have been in the car.

I understand that the permit should have been on the dashboard, but due to my circumstances i hope that you can show me kindness and allow me this once. I cant currently afford to pay the charge and it will leave me in dire financial circumstances, potentially leaving me in the situation where i cannot afford to travel home to see my dad, my mum recently passed in December and he relies on me to come home to visit him every weekend.

I can provide photos when requested.

Thankyou for time.

 

3. I have recieved a letter i don't know if it is a NTK, I recieved it on the 14th of March, there is no photographic evidence, it is a letter from Trace who are a debt recovery company, the letter says i have to pay £160 as the case has been passed on to them. The only thing I have recieved from PCM was the ticket on my windscreen.

 

4. There was no reply from PCM however they have claimed to reply but i haven't received any reason or letters as to why my appeal was declined.

 

5. PCM-Parking control Management, however it has now been passed to Trace-debt recovery

Edited March 15, 2018 by apahtan

[brassnecked]

So the extra ££60 added by the toothless DCA is the famed Unicorn food tax.

[DragonFly1967]

Could you get us some pictures of the signage in & around the area which relates to parking.

 

Try to get some nice close up shots of any displayed (so called) terms & conditions as well.

 

Convert them to PDF and upload them to this thread.

[apahtan]

picture of the sign

parking.pdf

[DragonFly1967]

OK. Could the permit be seen by looking through the windscreen? Even if that meant moving your head.

 

The term on their sign makes the valid display of a permit impossible unless you are a glass engineer.

 

"Displaying a valid parking permit within the windscreen of the vehicle".

 

For that to be complied with you would have to have a new windscreen manufactured for your vehicle with a parking permit embedded within it. And a new windscreen every time that they changed the permit. Sounds a bit much.

 

 

If they want to use legalese on their signs and then try to beat you with it, then they really should be saying exactly what they mean. Otherwise, you can beat them over the heads with their own signage.

 

As it is, you've got a permit and it was on display in the vehicle (regardless as to where it was). Let them do their worst. There's no way that they'd ever win this in court.

[DragonFly1967]

Further, I've just noticed that they're also claiming to be a member of a trade body that doesn't exist. The "Independent Parking Committee" no longer exists as a trade organisation. Naughty naughty.

[apahtan]

The permit was in the passenger foot well but you could see it from outside of the car.

[brassnecked]

That sign does seem to ask the impossible and probably get laughed at if they tried court, DF has identified serious breaches below their waterline so follow what the team advise. The devil is in the detail, DF and EB are very good at digging out the detail and any anomalies therein that can be used to tolchok the PPC.

[apahtan]

thanks for the advice, this is looking promising! could you please elaborate what DF and EB mean, thank you

[DragonFly1967]

I'm on my phone, so this is a little harder to type, but...

 

PCM will be 'claiming' that the driver has breached the "terms and conditions that are prominently and clearly displayed"

 

How can a driver breach a condition that cannot possibly be complied with?

 

Further, they will 'claim' that they "adhere to the codes of practice" of their trade association, which is the International Parking Community.

 

The signage however says that they are members of the "Independent Parking Committee" an organisation that does not exist, so how can they be complying with its terms?

 

If PCM have failed to update their signage, that can hardly be the fault of the driver.

 

None of these points will make any difference to PCM unless they try to take you to court, where these points and many others can be used in your defence to beat them.

 

Hell, they might even end up owing you money

[brassnecked]

DF is Dragonfly1967 who has been giving you excellent pointers, EB is ericsbrother, another thorn in the side of greedy PPC's.

[Bazooka Boo]

thanks for the advice, this is looking promising! could you please elaborate what DF and EB mean, thank you

 

DragonFly and EricsBrother

[apahtan]

thank you a lot, my faith in humanity has kind of been restored!

[ericsbrother]

OK read the sign carefully, it says parking is permitted for ........ Well, if you werent displaying a permit you are prohibited from parking and prohibition is that, not a genuine offer of parking. This means that the conditions do not apply to you. The argument that the permit was fully visible is equal as the sign doesnt say it has to be in the front windscreen or any other specific place.

 

The Independent Parking Committee was the name used by Will and John of Gladstones for the parking trade association but they didnt register it and someone else did so they had to change their name to the International Parking Community. as they threaten to sue anyone using the former name in relation to parking control they hsould by rights be seeking an injunction against their own member.

 

This may seem to be a petty squabble but it menas that PCM cannot issue a lawful demand at that site because they havent followed the protocols laid down in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 that prescribes what has to be done so a parking cvo can claim anything from an individual.

 

In short, there are at least 3 reasons as to why this claim is duff and you have already been told the increased amount issnt lawfully binding so even if you owed them money it would be £100 at most and adding the extra probably renders that contract void by misrepresentation so an unfair unenforceable contract.

 

For the moment ignore the muppets and whenit gets as far as Gladstones writing to you then you let rip regarding the use of the wrong IPC logo etc and tell them that you will quote themselves in court if they are stupid enough to take up a lost cause.

 

Let us know what letters you receive and dont forget to update any address you have used even if that menas writing to them before they have done anything else or they may try their luck at court in the hope you dont get the claim form

Edited March 16, 2018 by DragonFly1967
Added paragraphs

[apahtan]

hi, so i have an update, i received a letter again from TRACE, saying i had 7 days from the 4/4/18 to pay, if i had missed this, then they will transfer it to their solicitors and be dealt with and i still haven't paid.

[ericsbrother]

that means they have wast3ede another £15. the solicitors will waste the same so soon they will ahve to demand £200 just to cover their costs!

Ignore.

[apahtan]

:’) thank you!! I will do

[apahtan]

hi, so after months of not hearing anything i got this letter this morning, what would you recommend i do? if anything?

 

[dx100uk]

that's a court claimform from a COURT NOT a LETTER........you do NOT ignore it..

 

please complete this:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***