PCM Windscreen PCN - Forgot Blue Badge at Bluewaters, Kent - ** RESOLVED **

[slinger1937]

Sunday 3rd September 2017,

I forgot to display my Blue Badge when I parked in a Disabled space at Bluewater in Kent,

obviously a genuine mistake because elsewhere in the area it is Free parking.

 

Returning to the car I found a ticket, requiring £95 or £57 if paid within 14 days ( a bit steep either way).

 

I appealed on-line at the PCM website at once. getting a letter this morning Thursday 7th, rejecting my appeal.

Must I pay?

[renegadeimp]

If its private land, dont worry, blue badges mean nothing on private land. My brother is going through the same issue but at another shopping centre.

 

When you get a ticket, you should always wait before appealing as they have to stick to a specific timeframe. You should also NEVER identify yourself as the driver.

[Homer67]

You have unfortunately appealed before consulting with this forum so you may have less options to bat this off but it is an unenforceable invoice and nothing more, also Bluewater signage is far from adequate unless you have binoculars in my experience.

 

For the moment do nothing else and wait to see what you get in the post from the PPC's pet legal team (the next desk on from the PPC invoice writer).

 

PPC's can write whatever they like in their silly terms and conditions but blue badge schemes are not enforceable on private property which Bluewater car parks are.

[dx100uk]

when you get 5 mins slinger

complete this link please

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[Ethel Street]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481087-Blue-Badges-on-Private-land&p=5059135#post5059135

[ericsbrother]

the blue badge scheme doesnt apply to private land in England and Wales so there cant really be a breach of any scheme

but you can be in breach of a contract

so the wording of the signage and with that in mnd where the signage is makes all the difference.

 

 

As siad, you have rather shot yourself in the foot by responding and appealing to a screen ticket,

in future if you get one of these you do not respond to it directly but wait for the NTK to arrive in the post.

 

 

Read up on the protocols of the POFA and many threads here so you understand the parking industry a little better.

[slinger1937]

Thank you all, but I am very confused.

 

I understand that the BB does not apply to Private Land.

 

I think I understand that Parking Companies can apply certain rules which are enforceable, i.e. a make a parking charge if their T&C's are ignored?

 

Assuming that their signage is o.k. and that I forgot display my BB, thereby breaking their T&C's, and that they rejected my appeal.

 

Should I pay the £57 or £95 if I am late??

my 14 day option is running out on the 17th Sept.

 

I am angry with both myself and this Company,

Angry with myself because I am eighty years old, and forgot my badge for the first time ever.

 

Angry with the Company because there is no leeway or understanding, especially as it is free parking for everyone a few yards away!

 

Silverfoxx1961

- I will complete the form as soon as I can understand how to upload the letter from PCM,

I am not very bright really (my wife keeps telling me).

 

So folks, should I pay?

Thank you all

[Homer67]

No you never pay a PPC invoice, they are unenforceable, especially so in this case as there is no Blue Badge enforcement on private land.

 

Let's see the letter that the PPC has sent and don't panic about their silly timescales.

 

Remember it is not a fine, it is an invoice which is unenforceable in 99% of cases.

[ericsbrother]

you "assume".

That is what they rely on to get money out of you.

Also there aren't any rules,

just an offer of terms that may or may not be

1) legally binding or

2) unfair or just plain gibberish and thus not valid.

 

My suggestion is to find out what the signage says and fight it from there.

If you are up for doing that then it wont matter how much the charge is nor when their discount period expires as you wont be paying anything.

 

IT has already been said that the BB scheme doesn't apply

so the wording of their signage must be very precise to create a binding contract and usually these people are too thick to tie their own laces let alone write a meaningful contract.

[slinger1937]

How do I copy a pdf page to this reply box please? I've tried the "insert image" but it seems to enter just the link back to my desktop like this ->/home/pete/Desktop/Scanned Document.pdf

 

thank you

[renegadeimp]

Click the word upload and follow the prompt. Make sure you edit out ALL personal identifiers before you upload.

[slinger1937]

FI hope I have done this correctly

 

Once again, I hope that I have done this correctly? a PDF file should be attached, plus

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

1 The date of infringement? - 03/09/20178

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] - Y

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload

 

has there been a response? Yalready posted 2250 8th Sept

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it No only the response to my appeal

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? - on the appeal response

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] - N

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? - PCM

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? - Bluewater - Orange Zone – ground level

 

I am very sorry, I am making a hash of this uploading, I will try and improve, I do not know how to remove attachments yet

docs1.pdf

[dx100uk]

why have you used the word penalty charge in your appeal??

 

 

nowhere does any of their paperwork use that term??

 

 

dx

[slinger1937]

I have done it again, just found the PCM in the file, now corrected.

 

 

[/color]I can't answer that, [/color][/size]

I don't know,

I am naive I suppose, I

'm so angry with myself for putting myself in this position that I'm not thinking straight.

 

I am going across the river this morning to take a photograph of the sign where I was parked, as ericsbrother suggested, I'll post it later, correctly this time I hope.

I have tried to upload the Bluewaters parking sign,

if i drag it to the Reply box it appears sideways,

if I try as an attachment I get the following response, any advice please?

 

"the following errors occurred:

Bluewaters Sign.jpg: Please do not"

 

I have browsed this site but cannot see any instruction.

 

Thank you

Forgot BB (1)- My Appeal to PCM.pdf

[renegadeimp]

convert to pdf and upload. Click the word upload.

[lookinforinfo]

There is no point admitting that you were wrong by forgetting your blue badge. Parking companies do not do "mitigating circumstances" so your letter strengthens their belief that you will pay.

When you receive the NTK post it here [after removing all data that could identify you] and also pictures of the notices in the car park-especially those that refer to blue badges.

Then you can reply why you are not going to pay depending on how they have messed up their side of things.

[slinger1937]

Well, here is the Parking Sign (I hope) please bear with me, my learning curve here is vertical, I really don't know what I am doing!!

But I thank everyone for their help.

sign.pdf

[dx100uk]

yep that's ok

if you can click it and see it so can we.

 

 

 

 

dx

[slinger1937]

Any further thoughts please?

 

My friend has said that the rejection of my appeal letter from pcm is not a NTK (notice to keeper)

and that I should not do anything else until I get one.

 

Would this be correct?

Edited September 11, 2017 by slinger1937

[ericsbrother]

you are too late for that, the NTK is issued when they dont know who the driver is and as you have identified yourself as the driver they dont need to send one

 

TheOn the plus side this sign isnt a contractual consideration as they claim. There is no indication who is offering the contract- thye have missed out their details altogether and there is no reason to assume that any other signage anywhere else in the car park is relevantr to this particular spot.

 

Basically, no contract offered.

 

So what to do? Assuming you intend to fight this all the way then for the moment you do nothing and make them do the running. They will eventually get their incredibly talented lawyers at Gladstones, Will and John to write to you. These same 2 people run the IPC who approved the crap signage in the first place.

Edited September 11, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras

[slinger1937]

Thank you for that ericsbrother, I will take that on-board.

 

To tell the truth, I have searched on-line for similar experiences at Bluewaters as mine, but no luck so far.

 

in the meantime, I was going to write, and take the details to the Bluewater Management Team, what do you think?

 

I do feel very aggrieved about this, at the same time, my funds are limited so I have got to be very careful.

 

Thank you again. I hope you will keep an eye on this thread every now and then.

[ericsbrother]

Good idea.

Make them take responsibility for the actions of the bandits they employ.

 

 

Lay it on with a trowel as they know you have a BB,

are 80 years old,

regular customer,

no loss caused and that the signage their car park "managers" use to rook motorists out of their pensions fails to meet the requirement of the law and that Bluewater may be eld to account for this

 

Dont feel the necessity to be polite about the parking co

so use the words rook or chisel

so it is clear that you belive that it is a deception they are using rather than good management of a facility

[slinger1937]

ericsbrother,

After finding out who the most senior Manager is at Bluewaters

I wrote a personal letter to him, explaining what had happened.

 

 

Phoning Bluewaters I made an appointment to meet his PA knowing that she would read the letter before he got it.

Within the hour I took the letter, photographs of my BB and the mail that I had exchanged with PCM.

 

 

when I arrived at Bluewaters I waited just a few moments before his PA arrived,

I asked her to read it before I left,

 

 

she did, she was very helpful,

told me to wait whilst she found someone else,

 

 

again after just a few moments she arrived back with another lady,

who glanced at the letter,

saw the BB and said she would get the charge canceled for me.

it was all very efficient and they were so helpful.

 

I had been home just an hour when I got a telephone call from this lady confirming the cancellation. what a relief.

 

So, thank you, and everyone that has had an input, it made me quite determined.

[honeybee13]

Well done slinger. And well done to the people who advised you too.

 

I'll amend your thread title.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

Excellent, common sense prevailed.