PPM/gladstone claimform vanished windscreen PCN - West Gate Plaza West Brom. *** WON - CASE DISMISSED ***

[DragonFly1967]

On one of your NtK's (at least) there should be pictures (or the details of where you can go and look at pictures) of the vehicle that show the ticket on the windscreen. Without those, any claim that a NtD was issued is futile.

 

That would be the same as me saying "I put a ticket on your car, even if you didn't ever see it, please pay me £100". Without a picture to prove it a) would you pay me? And b) Would I have any rights to issue a claim against you?

 

The answers to both would be no, absolutely not.

 

It's exactly the same claim as these clowns are making!

[Kikic]

Yeah I try to view it before but it says something along the line of the case been passed to debt collector

So I can’t view it online anymore or should I call them and ask?

 

Thanks

Edited March 16, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[ericsbrother]

Thye will have to produce it in their evidence bundle. If you have never received any of these documents then you say so in your witness statement.

[Kikic]

Thye will have to produce it in their evidence bundle. If you have never received any of these documents then you say so in your witness statement.

I haven’t seen the NTD prove and on the NTK letter there was only two images showing my vehicle with date and time.

[Kikic]

May I ask when is the latest I can send my witness statement?

My trial date is on Monday 09/04.

 

The direction given for the claim is to deliver the documents no later than 14 days before the hearing.

 

if I send it on Saturday 24th March with next day delivery postage,

they properly receive it on Monday 26th (which is the exact 14 days before hearing) because they don’t work on Sunday?!

 

or to be safe I should send it on Thursday 22nd March so they can recieve it on Friday 23rd ‘working day’?

 

I wanted to wait for Gladstone’s statement first but didn’t want to miss my deadline

[dx100uk]

the latter

 

you are a litigant in person [defending yourself]

you are given certain leeway.

[ericsbrother]

post up what you want to say here so we can suggest any changes in the wording/emphasis

[Kikic]

Hi, I’m just working on my witness statement, I wanted some help with how to word: that the driver has only overstay by 9mins as there are no parking machine at the area, I think it is a reasonable time to have gone over.

 

Or I shouldn’t put anything like that on my statement?

 

Thank you!

[DragonFly1967]

Without trawling back through the thread....

 

Are you saying that, let's say there was a 3hr limit, that the driver was only there for 3hrs 9min?

 

If that is correct, take a copy of this document with you to court, and mention it by page & clause in your witness statement.

 

The term that you're looking for is on page 12. Clause 15. Specifically 15.2.

 

Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.

 

You'll notice that that says MUST, not might, maybe or should.

 

That alone will scupper any chance they have of making a successful claim in court. (although shouldn't be your only point made in your WS)

[Kikic]

To be exact is 12mins, they issued the PCN at 22:11pm which is 9 mins overstay but evidence images show the car still there at 22:14pm but the vehicle is running. I thought this act only apply to public road with certain conditions?

[DragonFly1967]

The images of the car still on site don't matter. They issued the PCN at paid time +9 minutes. They've shot themselves in both feet!

 

Despite what the PPC's like to claim, "Parking" is not the same as the vehicle being "on site".

 

 

The document that I linked to is the IPC CoP for AOS members, of which PPM is one. They must comply, no matter how much they'd like to wiggle.

[Kikic]

Thanks a lot!

You have put a strong point in for me as I was struggling to find a strong point for my statement... and my head was about to explode!

 

I'm just finalising the last bit of the statement, if you or other site team member can help to correct my wording, it will be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks!

Edited March 20, 2018 by dx100uk
quote/spacing

[ericsbrother]

As DF syas, there is a CoP that the have to adhere to or show that their system is equal or better to the CoP.

 

This is also covered in other court cases so have a look at the parking pranksters blog/web page and do a search for relevant cases.

there certainly is one from a few years back where the judge decided that 15 minutes all round to arrive, read signs, find change then get back into car, queue to exit etc is reasonable if using ANPR to determine overstay.

 

The contract is for PARKING, not visiting and this point need to be shoved down their throats

Edited March 20, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[DragonFly1967]

As you have not yet had sight of the Gladrags WS, I do not recommend that you post your WS in public. If Gladrags happen to see it (and we know that they look at the forums) it may give them a chance to tailor their own WS to counter any arguments that you make.

 

For now, I would suggest that your PM myself, dx100uk and ericsbrother (you can do so in one PM) so that we can look at it and suggest any edits or additional pointers. With a view to posting it here once you have received the copy & paste Roboclaim WS from Gladrags.

[Kikic]

The images of the car still on site don't matter. They issued the PCN at paid time +9 minutes. They've shot themselves in both feet!

 

Despite what the PPC's like to claim, "Parking" is not the same as the vehicle being "on site".

 

 

The document that I linked to is the IPC CoP for AOS members, of which PPM is one. They must comply, no matter how much they'd like to wiggle.

 

But actually I just read para 15.3 'The reference to 10 minutes in 15.2 above shall not apply where the period of pre-paid or permitted parking does not exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site makes it clear to the motorist, in prominent font, that no grace period applies on that land.'

Does that mean only if PPM has state on their the signage 'that no grace period applies on that land' otherwise the 10 mins grace period will still need apply to them because the parking condition is 1 hour max? And no such say about grace period on their signage.

[DragonFly1967]

It means that if you paid for 1 hours parking AND the signs say, words to the effect of "No grace period applies".

 

If however you paid for 1½hrs parking, the sign might still say "No grace period applies", but it does as per 15.2 as 15.3 does not exclude it.

 

Sometimes you need to read these things as looking for what they don't say, rather than what they do

[ericsbrother]

it really doesnt matter what the sign says it has been determined by case law that the grace period exists so that it that.

 

I can put up a sign saying trespassers will be eaten by my big dog but that doesnt make it legal to set dogs on trespassers because there is already applicable law in that regard

[Kikic]

I have PM my WS, please check.

 

also another question, if I print out the IPC CoP/ POFA 2012 do I need to attach it with the WS bundle and give it to all parties or I can just take the copy with me in case the judge want to see it?

[DragonFly1967]

also another question, if I print out the IPC CoP/ POFA 2012 do I need to attach it with the WS bundle and give it to all parties or I can just take the copy with me in case the judge want to see it?

 

Print out the relevant sections only, 3 copies just to be sure. 1 for you to refer to, 1 for the judge and 1 for whichever poor sod gets the short straw of representing for Gladrags that day. More on that in my PM shortly.

[DragonFly1967]

Here is a redacted copy of the Gladrags WS which Kikic has received via email.

 

I will leave Kikic to post up their final WS when they return to the thread.

Bundle the approved, signed statement with the exhibits (Edited).pdf

[brassnecked]

Is this another certified Roboclaim, with Beavis as the only authority, it is woeful.

[DragonFly1967]

It's up to the usual Gladrags standard. P... Poor.

 

But you know, they're the best in the business don't you? It must be true, they've said so themselves

[Kikic]

Soon will be my trial day!!

Anything else I should prepare?

I will bring my WS package including evidence and relevant Clause that I intend to rely on,

a copy of lay representative order 1999,

legal services act 2007,

copy or case Ellis v Larson,

copies of parking CoP bill.

 

I searched online am I suppose to write some kind of opening speech/ speaking’ speech?

 

Or I can just read out what I wrote in my WS? And what kind of questions do I need to ask?

[dx100uk]

the judge will lead you.

 

do NOT ever allow a little 'chat' outside with whatever clown the send to rep them.

 

and remember if they are NOT the person whom signed their WS they have no rights to state anything

I think EB has already explained that here?

[Kikic]

Thank you! Umm I don’t it was on this thread I saw it on another thread